Galaxy 189

[mdstuart]

Well quite a frustrating evening. These faint fuzzies are hard to find.

Went after NGC 6574. Shoudl be possible given the write up on the web...BUT

Using my pocket star atlas I can get to the right area but it only shows stars to about mag 8 so even though I am in the right area and that galaxy is somewhere in my 30mm eyepiece but I am not sure where.

So open google and look at an image..ok now I know what paturn of stars I am looking for but which way up!!

After a lot of effort I sopt something very small like a fuzzy star....

In with the 6.4mm eyepeice and yes there is that paturn of stars and NGC 6574 a reasonable size blob which is visible with direct vision but as that lady in Cardiff says averted vision is an astronomers best friend and its much better averted...

After coming in I realise I need a star map to locate and then a print out from Nebulus X to close right in by star hoping. I checked and I can see stars down to mag 13.5 last night so near my limit and the galaxy is only a sbr of 12.8 so I am pleased.

Turns out it is 2.5 times as far a way as the Virgo group and had a supernova in 2008...So quite a good find..

So what do others do, do you print out really detailed maps to mag 13 to help or do you guess with a mag 8 map...I bet you all goto for these faint things?

Anyway after viewing I put the 30mm back in and realise again how small and easy it is to overlook this small spiral galaxy.

Well my new 15mm 80deg view 2 inch lens has arrive so I now have a new weapon to try on these elusive but amazing wonderful beautiful objects.

So try this one as a challenge folks and see how you get on. Its below LYRA at the moment so reasonably placed.

Enjoy

Mark

P.S Also say Talitha's alternative albeiro ..lovely and very much like albeiro as you say..

[Talitha]

Great write-up, and well done on finding 6574. Any particular reason you chose it? Glad you liked that double in Lyra, too.

I starhop with the 120 achro (CG5 mount) and use the setting circles on the 8" SCT. My guide for both is the Millennium Star Atlas, which goes down to (iirc) mag 11.. more than enough to get a positive i.d. on my targets.

[bish]

Nice write up. When I am trying to find the faint and fuzzies a quickly dash in off my balcony and check with starry night on the computer to check the surrounding stars, works a treat. I have got some quite good laminated star maps to take to Kielder, but think they only go down to mag 8.5.

[mdstuart]

Thanks for the feedback. I am not sure why 6574 it was just next on a list of possibles I think.

I have now set up a database of my observations and I am matching it against the Saguro 10,000 objects list and working through the galaxies I have not found with a surface brightness of less than mag 14...

Mark

[acey]

Well done, that's an interesting find. I've never observed it, and it doesn't seem to be in the Herschel 400. The NGC listing describes it as "pretty bright, small, round" at mag 12, though Luginbuhl and Skiff call it "faint and isolated". Certainly one I shall have to have a go at once my sky gets dark enough again. What sort of naked eye limiting magnitude did you have?

For finding objects, for a long time I used SkyAtlas 2000 which goes down to about 8, which was good with my 8-inch scope, but when you go for fainter galaxies with larger aperture you need an atlas that goes deeper: when I moved to a 12-inch I started using Uranometria.

As you realise, the main thing is having a chart that plots stars faint enough to get you to the right spot, so that when you look through the eyepiece you know the galaxy must be somewhere in the field of view. Many afficionados recommend making little circles that match the field of view of finder and eyepiece, which you can lay over the chart. I've never bothered as I'm lazy and I manage without, but I can see that it would help.

At the start of a session I always check my finder alignment with my highest power eyepiece so that I know that when something is sitting on the cross-hairs it will be in the field of view of that eyepiece, as close as possible to centre. For finding galaxies, I use the 50mm finder to get to the right area, then a low-power (32mm) eyepiece in the main scope to get to the exact spot. The galaxy itself is usually invisible in the low-power eyepiece.

I step up the power and look at the field. If I've just been staring at a map, even under red light, then my eye needs to adjust. If the galaxy doesn't pop out at me then I tap the tube or sweep very gently around the area, being careful not to get lost. Motion makes things more visible. And of course it's averted vision all the time.

I know what you mean about "which way up". Again, books are a help here - as long as Uranometria is upside down on my book rack (a music stand - thanks to Carol for that brilliant idea) I know I'm pretty much OK (as I'm usually looking south). Looking through the scope I can quickly see which side the stars are disappearing, so I can fix west and the other cardinal points exactly.

[mdstuart]

Thanks acey. I have reasonable skies so I can see the milky way and stars to about mag 5.

This was a tough one to find, as you say almost invisible in the 20/30mm eyepeices.

I am now going to reduce the number of targets and print out detailed Nebulus X maps for the targets with stars to mag 14...

Just wish it would get galaxy dark earlier...

Mark

[Beulah]

Mark,

Great write up. It's good to set yourself a challenge with difficult objects.

To answer your question about what others do when using star maps, well I just sketch a few constellations with some things I want to see from Stellarium onto a back of an envelope, as it seems to help with visualising where things are - I find I learn to locate the objects a lot quicker. When I'm out there, I don't want too much clutter around me - it's easy to lose stuff! Just a few EPs in the pocket, a small red light and a scribbled on envelope!!

[Talitha]

... it doesn't seem to be in the Herschel 400.

...making little circles that match the field of view of finder and eyepiece, which you can lay over the chart.

The galaxy isn't on the Herschel II list, either... it's just another one of those tiny little faint fuzzies lurking in the background till someone like Mark brings it forward.

I can vouch for the fov circles, they really help. Mine are out at the Starpad with the Atlas volumes, but i'll get a pic (asap, and will post in this thread) of the overlay on a familiar region so everyone knows what it looks like. It's very easy to make and after it's done, you have it forever and always.

Glad you found the music stand idea helpful, Andrew.

[Talitha]

Ok, here it is.. crude but quite effective.

The overlay is on Orion's Belt, and i've marked the corners of it with right angle marks so you can see the size.. it's about 6' square, i guess. As you see, there are four concentric circles, each covering various equipment.

The outermost circle (1):

11x70 binos

80ST [400fl, f/5] with 26mm ep

Second one (2):

22x100 binos

80ST with 13.8mm ep

Third one (3):

90mm ETX [1250fl, f/13.9] with 32mm ep

120 achro [1000fl, f/8.3] with 26mm ep

Innermost (4):

8" SCT [2000fl, f/10] with 32mm ep

While observing with different equipment over several nights a number of Springs ago, i pencilled the circles onto a page in LEO and then traced them with permanent marker onto a very thin sheet protector.

The info on the border was written with the same marker, and then it was protected with a sheet of sticky-backed laminating plastic purchased at the local what-have-you store in town. You can do the same thing with any star charts.

[mdstuart]

Thanks Talitha. I must make some circles. However I think the key for me is a detailed map printed of the imediate area. With NGC 6574 I only have one bright star to the left with two dimmer stars one above and one down to the right and then some bight stars below NGC 6574 on the map. So you are looking in a 1 degree circle or about the view with a 20mm lens.

In the eyepiece you can see none of the stars in the atlas as they are all just outside the field but you see about 50 stars which of course are all two faint to be in the atlas.

So without the detailed print out you need to study the whole field very carefully with averted vision looking for a pin ***** of fuzz. With a small galaxy like this one it took a good 15 mins to spot it and then of course with high power using the 6.4mm lens it is obvious....

With a detailed map you can then star hop in on the faint stars to locate it...

Anyway thanks for the feedback and do try 6754 it is a lovely view on high power as it is in a rich star field, perhaps an opportunity for one of your fine sketches...

Mark