a very basic question about astro-photography

[crovax]

Hi guys,

I don't know absolutely anything about astrophotography and that's why I have to ask such a noobish question. Sorry for that.

Somewhere on the web I've seen 'scopes that are used for imaging and they look like a 'scope + some terrifying thing almost the size of the 'scope attached to it. But here in the imaging section I've seen photos made by a cellphone and that left me wondering what's the most basic stuff I need to have to get sky photos. I have 130mm reflector and RA motor. How big upgrade do I need to make to start taking photos of DSOs?

I also have a common Canon digital photocamera. Do you use some adapter to put common photocamera into the eyepiece? Or do you buy the whole new photocamera (and put it into EP or attach on the top of 'scope?)?

PS. I tried googling but all I've found were those terrifying imaging telescopes

[Milamber]

If you have a scope and a "common camera" capable of exposing for longer than a couple of seconds then you are good to go. You just need something to hold it steady at the eyepiece.

Or you can use a basic webcam with an adapter (£10-£15) and you're away for Lunar and planetary - modify it for long exposure and you're good to go on DSO's - though the chip size is relatively small these days.

Past those, it gets interesting, fun, addictive and expensive the further you go.

Arthur

[crovax]

Past those, it gets interesting, fun, addictive and expensive the further you go.

Haha, yeah, I've already noticed that. I really don't want to count but by now (and I baught my scope only a month ago) my initial 'scope budget has approximately doubled because soon after the purchase I realised that I want more EPs, motor, filters, etc.

My camera is Canon PowerShot A580 and here you can see specs

Canon PowerShot A580 Digital Camera - Review Data Sheet, Specifications and Information - The Imaging Resource!

I don't have any idea what all those exposure specs mean so could you please have a look and tell me if that camera is any good?

[Vega]

Both your camera and scope are capable of astro photography. Need more detail on the camera model etc but there are a couple ways you can go about it...

Eyepeice Projection

This is where the camera takes a photo of what's in the focused eyepeiece. It can be done hand held on some moon shots but for great shots its best to buy an adaptor that will secure your camera up close to the eyepeice.

Prime Focus [Edit] having now seen the camera model you are using this method is probably not possible

This is where the camera replaces the eyepeice and is attached directly to your scope via an adaptor.

Hope that helps

Matt

[Milamber]

Well, sadly, you are only really going to be able to take pics through the eyepiece with that camera - which in turn limits you to local (Lunar and planetary) targets.

I am afraid you may find yourself taking another step up that ladder fairly soon...

Arthur

[crovax]

Thanks for all the help! Unfortunately I really have to restrain myself from further spending as for now. The reason is that I'll be changing the country I am living in quite soon and both spending money (that I will most probably need during my quest) + thinking about how to transport all the stuff I've baught doesn't sound very cool. So I guess in a few years when I'll be sure that my new place is nice enough to stay there for years, I'll buy a cool 12" scope and some cool equipment and will return here with some other noobish qestions. And as for now I'll continue observing all those clusters nd nebulae and galaxies,...

[Parallax]

I will try to answer this question in stages - simplest method first.

1. No scope. The minimum you will need is a camera that can take long exposures (10s at least). Attach the camera to a normal tripod, point it skyward and shoot. This will reveal more than can be seen with naked eye.

2. Camera + scope mount. Same as 1, but now you can "track the sky" so you can take even longer exposures. (Without tracking you will notice star trails after about 30-60s depending on the lens of the camera).

3. Camera + scope + eyepiece. Locate the target (moon or planet) in the eyepiece, hold the camera to the eyepiece and shoot. (Short exposure).

4. Camera + scope + eyepiece + camera clamp. Same as 3, but as the camera is held steady you may be able capture some DSO's. (Longer exposure than No 3).

5. Camera + scope + adaptor. Here, the adaptor is attached to the camera (instead of its' lens) and this is inserted into the eyepiece holder. This is called Prime Focus. Depending on how well your scope is polar aligned, how stable the mount is and how well the motor tracks, you could get exposures of upto 2 minutes.

Now it gets scary!

6. Camera + scope + guiding camera + guiding scope. All mounts have tracking errors and star trails will be noticed after about 2 minutes. Most objects are dim and need exposures longer than 2 minutes. So, to accurately track the sky we need to use a guide scope. We use a guide scope and its' camera to "lock on" to a star and send guiding corrections to the mount to keep this star stationary. Using this method we can, in theory, take exposures of as long as we like.

Probably more info than you needed, but...

Steve

[crovax]

Eyepeice Projection

This is where the camera takes a photo of what's in the focused eyepeiece. It can be done hand held on some moon shots but for great shots its best to buy an adaptor that will secure your camera up close to the eyepeice.

Thanks for the detailed post but moon is no fun. What I want is taking some details of nebulae and galaxies. But I guess I'll have to return to this idea in a few years.

[crovax]

Wow, thanks Steve. This short overview was really informative for me! I guess imaging of faint galaxies (around mag 8-10) need that scary last method?

[Ford Prefect]

Hi

This primer might help

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-tips-tricks-techniques/48674-dso-imaging-budget.html

Cheers Jon

[Parallax]

Wow, thanks Steve. This short overview was really informative for me! I guess imaging of faint galaxies (around mag 8-10) need that scary last method?

No, you can get decent enough images with a modified webcam.

However, as Arthur has said, it gets addictive then expensive.

Steve

[philsail1]

Hello "crovax"

You should be able to take some reasonably acceptable astrophotos with your Canon A580 Digicamera. I have the Canon A570is, and use it regularly for "afocal" Astrophotography.

You will need a braket to connect your camera to your scope. "First Light optics" sell an ideal one for around £30. (I have one - see photo below).

Your camera has manual settings for focus, shutter speed, aperture, and exposure compensation - and it has a max shutter opening time of 15 seconds, so you should be albe to photograph some of the brighter deep sky objects.

I've posted some photos to give you an idea of what your camera is capable of.

Best wishes,

philsail1

[jgs001]

I wrote a short tutorial for a photography forum a while back on how to capture widefield images with a camera and tripod... It's a good way to get started, and you should be able to capture the brighter DSO's... I've got M31 for instance using my old Z2....

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-tips-tricks-techniques/73737-basic-widefield-camera-tripod.html

[philsail1]

Here are the photos "crovax" (had a glitch on my computer!).

Regards,

phisail1

[philsail1]

Oh! here is the bracket I use! (I've attached an old 35mm camera to it, just to show you how it connects to your scope).

If you do get one - you just need to be careful that you leave enough space between the front of the lens of your camera, and the eyepiece, otherwise when you switch camera on and the lens extends, it will foul the eyepiece and you could damage your camera.

(I've occasionally allowed this to happen, and my Canon A570is has bleeped and displayed on the screen "camera lens fault - restart camera!" then it has switched itself off).

Once your camera is set up on the bracket you can experiment in moving the camera back and forth, and side to side (the bracket has all these adjustments), until you get a centralised image on your camera's screen.

Regards,

philsail1

[crovax]

Thanks everyone for helping so much! That bracket looks really cool! Could you please give me the link to it? I've tried searching FLO site but didn't find anything. Also do they vary in diameter? Won't this bracket be too big/small for the diameter of my camera lens? By the way how do I focus? I shouldn't use the autofocus feature and should tell the camera approximate distance between camera lens and EP, right? And that makes me think of how do I foucs EP....do I need to make it look sharp for my eye and then attach camera?

[Doc]

FLO does this bracket.

Adaptors - Skywatcher Universal Camera Adapter

or

Adaptors - Baader Microstage Clickstop digital camera adapter

[Space Cowboy]

I too am experimenting with my point and shoot digital camera. Was quite surprised how good the pics were when mounted on a tripod and aimed into the eyepiece (daylight pics). What puzzles me is how do webcams take pics in prime focus without any eyepiece? When i look in my scope with no eyepiece there is no image??? Please be gentle i'm only a simple farmer:icon_scratch:

[dph1nm]

You should be able to get excellent images of many DSOs with the A580 using afocal imaging. I see it has a threaded lens, so you can connect it directly to an eyepiece without the need for a bracket (although you will need some adapter rings).

Keep an eye on the CHDK software, there is some work on porting it to the A580 - if it ever gets done, this will enable 60sec exposures and many other goodies.

NigelM

[crovax]

I've checked FLO site and Adapter Rings seem to cost even more than then bracket. Do they have any advantages over the bracket? By the way how does that bracket way called? Afocal imaging?

[crovax]

Keep an eye on the CHDK software, there is some work on porting it to the A580 - if it ever gets done, this will enable 60sec exposures and many other goodies.

NigelM

Wow, that sounds awesome! I'll be keeping an eye on that!

[jgs001]

A bracket works well, although I've not tried it for Afocal, only EP projection. The benefit is that the camera is held in the correct spot to ensure proper alignment between the EP and the Camera. If you are using a bracket you may not get exact alignment.

[crovax]

So "EP projection" is when I take photo of what I see in EP and "afocal" is when I put in photocamera instead of EP, right? Aren't those methods mutually exclusive? I mean will I be able to do both Afocal and EP Projection if I buy Adapter Rings?

[crovax]

Also how do I choose the correct adapter ring? I know that my scope is 1.25" but that's only one end of the ring, right? What camera specs should I look at to make another end of the ring match my camera?

[Taz]

wow you got those pic's just from pointing a small digicam down the eye piece ?

i might see if i can knock a bracket up and try it myself, I have a sony A300 DSLR and half a dozen lenses and havn't got pic's that good even with my 300mm tamron lens, ? maybe i'm doing something wrong ?