Buying/ Selling

[Vic L S]

Hi all, 

I'm new to the forum - so first of all, hello all!

I wanted to know where users usually buy and sell secondhand items (apart from this forum), and what precautions do users take when buying astro gear secondhand? 

Do you usually meet up in person to inspect the gear being sold? Or are things more commonly bought online and then shipped? What steps do people take to protect themselves when buying and selling, apart from using PayPal's Buyer Protection? 

I'm interested in both the buyer and the seller's point of view. 

 

 

[Paz]

Welcome to SGL.

Astrobuysell is the main specialist site for second hand astronomy kit, then there are the buy/sell forums here and some retailers sell second hand items from their websites, e.g. Rother Valley Optics.

Items that are less expensive, more simple and robust I'll buy posted, but it is worth speaking to the seller, just to get a feel for if they are genuine and if and they have looked after what they are selling. There's always going to be some dodgy sellers but I think it's not so easy for a scammer to sound convincing in this hobby.

If a seller is someone I "know" on the forum I would not be concerned and may only  swap messages, but it takes time to build up familiarity with who the established members are and who you would be happy to take this approach with.

Big telescopes or mounts or things that are risky to post I'll go and see/collect in person.

As a general rule though, I'll put as much weight on being assured about the seller as I'll put on being happy about the item I'm buying.

[malc-c]

A decade ago I needed to upgrade my mount , and an SGL member listed an HEQ5, ST80, QHY5 and all the cables to make it work.  Only drawback was he was in Sunderland and I live in Stevenage... but given the money involved  I arranged to meet up with them.  We arranged a time, date and location to meet, which was a roadside café akin  to a little chief, so bright and early I set off on the 480 mile round trip.  Given the car I drive (still have it) I planned for a sedately pace and drove to preserve petrol, and arrived at the café half an hour before the meeting so had some lunch.  The guy arrived, had a chat over a coffee and then we went to his car where he set up the mount to demonstrate that all was working.  Cash was exchanged and the goodies loaded in to the back of the V70.  On the way back all thoughts of economising on petrol  went out of the window as I wanted to get back in time for tea.   I was quite surprised that I still had 3 or 4 gallon left in the tank after around 450 miles.  

Now in retrospect the  it may have been cheaper to courier the kit, but as neither of us had met before, sending £600 or more via bank transfer to total strangers just wasn't going to happen.  Nor would they be comfortable sending the kit to me before payment, so doing the deal in the middle of a carpark was the only way forward.   Just a shame the deal was too good to miss and it was so far away.

Edited April 27 by malc-c

[bosun21]

As @Paz has already outlined there are a few retailers that sell secondhand equipment, though limited by variety. I used to drive to collect in person from the sellers home or meet up point for larger and more expensive equipment. This allowed me to check the item personally before purchase. Now that I can no longer drive due to health reasons, I only either buy from here on SGL, or new from a retailer. On SGL you easily see who is serious about our hobby and maybe those not so much. I have only bought one telescope from SGL by post and i had no concerns parting with my money up front (£500 plus). Such is the quality of many members on here. That's not to say there's no less than honest people around so caution is best employed. Thankfully the later is a rare occurrence here. I have bought the odd bit here and there on Astro buy and sell UK without mishap. If it's not a person or member I've gotten to know then PayPal with buyers protection is the safest way to proceed with any purchase. I have also sold many items and pieces of equipment on SGL which all went smoothly. Welcome to SGL by the way.

[Ratlet]

Depends on the item really, I usually ask for additional pictures for any optical equipment as well as any photos with blemishes.

Big ticket items I normally collect in person.  I did get a 102F7 ed earlier this year that was couriered.  That was honestly pretty scary.  Seller (on here) packaged it really well but never doubt the ability for a courier ape to break something.

Honestly, if it's not urgent you are better waiting for it to show up on the forum as you'll almost always get the beat price and top notch condition to boot.

[Vic L S]

9 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

As @Paz has already outlined there are a few retailers that sell secondhand equipment, though limited by variety. I used to drive to collect in person from the sellers home or meet up point for larger and more expensive equipment. This allowed me to check the item personally before purchase. Now that I can no longer drive due to health reasons, I only either buy from here on SGL, or new from a retailer. On SGL you easily see who is serious about our hobby and maybe those not so much. I have only bought one telescope from SGL by post and i had no concerns parting with my money up front (£500 plus). Such is the quality of many members on here. That's not to say there's no less than honest people around so caution is best employed. Thankfully the later is a rare occurrence here. I have bought the odd bit here and there on Astro buy and sell UK without mishap. If it's not a person or member I've gotten to know then PayPal with buyers protection is the safest way to proceed with any purchase. I have also sold many items and pieces of equipment on SGL which all went smoothly. Welcome to SGL by the way.

Thanks for the insight. I'm always a little anxious buying/ selling online, but I think even more so with astro gear. 

You hear more about buyers being scammed, but how are sellers protected? Is it easy to get scammed by a buyer, if they just put in a claim on PayPal stating the item has not arrived/ damaged, and insists on a refund? Is that something that happens often with these things? 

I'd always prefer to meet in person but that's not always possible, so just wondering how others went about it if things come to being posted. 

It's good to know that there is usually good buying and selling etiqeutte from users on this forum though. 

Edited April 27 by Vic L S
Grammar

[bosun21]

1 minute ago, Vic L S said:

Thanks for the insight. I'm always a little anxious buying/ selling online, but I think even more so with astro gear. 

You hear more about buyers being scammed, but how sellers protected? Is it easy to get scammed by a buyer, if they just put in a claim on PayPal stating the item has not arrived/ damaged, and insists on a refund? Is that something that happens often with these things? 

I'd always prefer to meet in person but that's not always possible, so just wondering how others went about it if things come to being posted. 

It's good to know that there is usually good buying and selling etiqeutte from users on this forum though. 

I have sold many items by post to SGL members and always post using a tracked and insured method. For items over £150 I generally use next day by 1pm which is tracked and insured. Generally all other items by First class signed for and some smaller items like extensions/adapters 2nd class signed for. Large items like scopes and mounts are best collected but I have shipped a few by courier (Parcelforce) which is also insured. As you can probably see every item will have proof of delivery. HTH.

[Vic L S]

1 hour ago, Paz said:

Welcome to SGL.

Astrobuysell is the main specialist site for second hand astronomy kit, then there are the buy/sell forums here and some retailers sell second hand items from their websites, e.g. Rother Valley Optics.

Items that are less expensive, more simple and robust I'll buy posted, but it is worth speaking to the seller, just to get a feel for if they are genuine and if and they have looked after what they are selling. There's always going to be some dodgy sellers but I think it's not so easy for a scammer to sound convincing in this hobby.

If a seller is someone I "know" on the forum I would not be concerned and may only  swap messages, but it takes time to build up familiarity with who the established members are and who you would be happy to take this approach with.

Big telescopes or mounts or things that are risky to post I'll go and see/collect in person.

As a general rule though, I'll put as much weight on being assured about the seller as I'll put on being happy about the item I'm buying.

How's Astro Buy & Sell? Generally safe as long as caution is taken, or is it a mix good/ suspicious sellers? 

[dweller25]

There was a 250mm Mewlon for sale on AstroBuySell for quite some time for a VERY low price.

It was eventually bought but it was a scam and the buyer lost all his money.

If a deal is too good to be true - it usually is !

Never do a high value bank transfer without seeing the item in person.

SGL has a sales section which I have used quite a bit and never had an issue but the usual take care rules still apply.

 

[Tiny Clanger]

10 minutes ago, Vic L S said:

Thanks for the insight. I'm always a little anxious buying/ selling online, but I think even more so with astro gear. 

You hear more about buyers being scammed, but how are sellers protected? Is it easy to get scammed by a buyer, if they just put in a claim on PayPal stating the item has not arrived/ damaged, and insists on a refund? Is that something that happens often with these things? 

I'd always prefer to meet in person but that's not always possible, so just wondering how others went about it if things come to being posted. 

It's good to know that there is usually good buying and selling etiqeutte from users on this forum though. 

Best not treat this forum as just a marketplace, partly because that's precisely against the rules and the spirit of the place. Read this if you've not already done so:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/105855-forum-code-of-conduct/#comment-1044622  (but note the requirements for seeing the buy/sell section are now 25 posts and a month's membership) and these

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/383673-important-change-to-buy-sell-access/#comment-4144265

 

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/419332-buy-sell-safety-warning/#comment-4462445

Personally I'd not buy anything sight unseen from someone with little posting history, someone who offers no clue about how they may actually have used the kit they want to sell, has no apparent interest in being part of the community. Other red flags for me would be someone who does not show photos of the sale items, whose sale text is just the manufacturer's blurb copy/pasted with no hint of personal experience, or does not specify at least a county as their location while saying they are happy for collection.

I've bought the majority of my kit from people on here, always paid by bank transfer to secure the item, even if I was collecting in person days later. I was confident to do that because the sellers were (are ! ) active members on here with a reliable history who were well known to me. My trust has not been betrayed, and I have some really nice kit I simply could not have afforded otherwise. Thank you all, you know who you are !

I've not sold as much, but again people have paid me by bank transfer (I don't, and won't, do paypal ) and if the item was posted I've PM'd the recipient a photo of the proof of posting you get at the P.O. as soon as I've sent it off. Even for small low value items items (sent non tracking) the free proof of posting receipt shows the address the package is being sent to as well as the date/time and how much postage was paid.

ABS I keep an eye on, but to be honest unless something was very local so I could see it before paying cash, I'd not risk it. ENS Optical in Birmingham are dealers in second hand gear, I've no idea what their buying prices are like, their selling prices often appear rather close to the new price. I've not used them myself.

[Vic L S]

12 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Best not treat this forum as just a marketplace, partly because that's precisely against the rules and the spirit of the place. Read this if you've not already done so:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/105855-forum-code-of-conduct/#comment-1044622  (but note the requirements for seeing the buy/sell section are now 25 posts and a month's membership) and these

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/383673-important-change-to-buy-sell-access/#comment-4144265

 

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/419332-buy-sell-safety-warning/#comment-4462445

Personally I'd not buy anything sight unseen from someone with little posting history, someone who offers no clue about how they may actually have used the kit they want to sell, has no apparent interest in being part of the community. Other red flags for me would be someone who does not show photos of the sale items, whose sale text is just the manufacturer's blurb copy/pasted with no hint of personal experience, or does not specify at least a county as their location while saying they are happy for collection.

I've bought the majority of my kit from people on here, always paid by bank transfer to secure the item, even if I was collecting in person days later. I was confident to do that because the sellers were (are ! ) active members on here with a reliable history who were well known to me. My trust has not been betrayed, and I have some really nice kit I simply could not have afforded otherwise. Thank you all, you know who you are !

I've not sold as much, but again people have paid me by bank transfer (I don't, and won't, do paypal ) and if the item was posted I've PM'd the recipient a photo of the proof of posting you get at the P.O. as soon as I've sent it off. Even for small low value items items (sent non tracking) the free proof of posting receipt shows the address the package is being sent to as well as the date/time and how much postage was paid.

ABS I keep an eye on, but to be honest unless something was very local so I could see it before paying cash, I'd not risk it. ENS Optical in Birmingham are dealers in second hand gear, I've no idea what their buying prices are like, their selling prices often appear rather close to the new price. I've not used them myself.

Thanks for the links. I'm still trying to navigate my way around the forum. I joined last year in Dec but have mainly been using Reddit for questions and advice, but I wanted a forum closer to home. 

[John]

I have bought and sold using the UK Astro Buy & Sell website many times over the past decade or so. I've not had any problems thus far, exercising a modicum of caution.

After a while you get to recognise quite a few of the people selling on there. The amateur astro community in the UK is not that large.

 

 

[Vic L S]

3 minutes ago, John said:

I have bought and sold using the UK Astro Buy & Sell website many times over the past decade or so. I've not had any problems thus far, exercising a modicum of caution.

After a while you get to recognise quite a few of the people selling on there. The amateur astro community in the UK is not that large.

 

 

When buying/ selling there, are you meeting in person, or posting? Payments wise - PayPal? 

[John]

5 minutes ago, Vic L S said:

When buying/ selling there, are you meeting in person, or posting? Payments wise - PayPal? 

I've met up with folks for larger items (scopes and mounts). Smaller items have been posted. I've used Paypal, bank transfer and occasionally cash.

I sell there as well as buy there, taking a similar approach.

Around 80% of all my gear was bought used and much of that through UK Astro Buy & Sell. 

 

[Elp]

As with other walks of life there is the saying "buy the buyer, not the item". A good buyer will be able to speak with passion about their stuff, divulge in lots of info, pictures,  issues they've had and how they resolved them, if they know details of the ownership history, and above all be patient, not pushy. Of course there are those exceptions but if you were dealing with such would you be comfortable with it? Also your gut feeling is a very good precision device.

Fragile or sizable items like certain scopes always try to see in person as you'd want to look through them and transport them safely. Saying that my refractors I've bought without seeing them in person, the newt and SCT I collected, but again a good seller will package properly with sufficient retail like padding as they'd understand how it should be packed as if they were receiving it themselves.

 

 

Edited April 27 by Elp