Wearing glasses and eyepieces

[Coolhand1988]

Hi

After a 30 year gap from astronomy, I'm seriously thinking of starting this hobby again, once I have relocated under Bortle 4 skies.

Now that I wear bi-focal glasses( long sighted ), I know now how eye relief affects spectacle observers. 

Doing some research, it appears eyepieces with an eye relief of 20mm or more is best suited, but was wondering from members If there is a lower distance that is highly acceptable?

One more thing, I do have a few eye floaters in both eyes, and I have read this can be an issue with certain eyepieces?

Thanks

 

[Peter Drew]

Long sighted issues can usually be sorted by focusing, no need for glasses.  Floaters can be mitigated by using binoviewers.    🙂 

[Bivanus]

Don't know about glasses (yet) but floaters do happen 😒 The smaller the EP focal length the bigger the issue I found. Anything below 4mm I must take care. From 4 up to 5 is ok-ish , after 5 it's ok for me. And yes, bino-viewers, using the brain power for binocular vision to "erase" the floaters.

[Coolhand1988]

22 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

Long sighted issues can usually be sorted by focusing, no need for glasses.  Floaters can be mitigated by using binoviewers.    🙂 

Yeah in practice, I would like to keep my glasses on due to blurry vision near sighted. But I have to try which is better, once I have that opportunity.

Thanks for that tip on binoviewers.  

[John]

If you are going to wear glasses when observing it's worth checking out how much actual useable eye relief eyepieces have. The specifications usually state the eye relief from the centre of the eye (top) lens of the eyepiece but quite a few designs recess that top lens or use an inflexible eyecup so the actual amount of useable eye relief is somewhat less.

It's worth taking time to read owners feedback here and on other forums to establish which brands / ranges are the most suitable for the glasses wearer.

[Coolhand1988]

24 minutes ago, Bivanus said:

Don't know about glasses (yet) but floaters do happen 😒 The smaller the EP focal length the bigger the issue I found. Anything below 4mm I must take care. From 4 up to 5 is ok-ish , after 5 it's ok for me. And yes, bino-viewers, using the brain power for binocular vision to "erase" the floaters.

Hi

Thanks for that, I was unsure what focal length eyepieces could cause this.

Binovewiers it is then!  But I will try just viewing with one eyepiece to get a feel for the floaters. I then should know what double FL eyepieces to get for binoviewing.

I have read that once you go Bino's, there is no way back to single viewing again. Is that true?

Thanks

[Coolhand1988]

6 minutes ago, John said:

If you are going to wear glasses when observing it's worth checking out how much actual useable eye relief eyepieces have. The specifications usually state the eye relief from the centre of the eye (top) lens of the eyepiece but quite a few designs recess that top lens or use an inflexible eyecup so the actual amount of useable eye relief is somewhat less.

It's worth taking time to read owners feedback here and on other forums to establish which brands / ranges are the most suitable for the glasses wearer.

Yes, I have done a bit of online research.

The Badder Morpheus eyepiece range  appear to have reasonable eye relief in all FL, ( with the rubber cup down ),  as do the Televue delite and delos range.  Once over a certain AFOV,  the eye relief becomes smaller for mid to low FL eyepieces.

I would like to know if spectacle observers can comfortably use AFOV between 76 and 110 degrees in the mid to low FL eyepieces?

Luckly my glasses have a very thin lense and some eyepieces even allow the EP rubber cup to be use on medium and longer focal lengths when wearing glasses. 

I will still carry on searching the forums for more information on this!

Thanks

[John]

From what I've read over the years (I'm not a glasses wearer myself) the 100 degree eyepieces have eye relief that is just a bit too short to enable glasses wearer to see the full field of view. 

Quite a few of the 82 degree eyepieces are similar. The ultra wides that glasses wearers do find fully useable include the Explore Scientific 92 degree range (17mm and 12mm) and the 80 degree long eye relief designs such as the Stellalyra 80 LER:

StellaLyra 20mm 2" 80º LER / UWA Eyepiece | First Light Optics

The Nagler 22mm Type 4 is another long eye relief ultra wide eyepiece that glasses wearers find useable.

[Coolhand1988]

3 minutes ago, John said:

From what I've read over the years (I'm not a glasses wearer myself) the 100 degree eyepieces have eye relief that is just a bit too short to enable glasses wearer to see the full field of view. 

Quite a few of the 82 degree eyepieces are similar. The ultra wides that glasses wearers do find fully useable include the Explore Scientific 92 degree range (17mm and 12mm) and the 80 degree long eye relief designs such as the Stellalyra 80 LER:

StellaLyra 20mm 2" 80º LER / UWA Eyepiece | First Light Optics

The Nagler 22mm Type 4 is another long eye relief ultra wide eyepiece that glasses wearers find useable.

Thanks for that info.

I have only looked at baaders Morpheus range, and Televue range in depth. I did look at the Explore Scientific range,  but failed to notice the 92 degree eyepieces.  I was particularly looking for eye relief from 18 to 20 mm range and above for med to low FL eyepieces.

I guess there are a lot more brands to suit my needs. Have to search some more on this.

I keep on reading online that members selling their expensive eyepieces because it didn't suit there requirements or tried then once and never use them again?  I would definitely like to avoid that over a certain amount spent!

I got my information for the eyepieces above from the FLO website. I don't think they advertise all brands of eyepieces for eye relief, but I will try their site again.

Thanks

[Coolhand1988]

1 hour ago, John said:

Quite a few of the 82 degree eyepieces are similar. The ultra wides that glasses wearers do find fully useable include the Explore Scientific 92 degree range (17mm and 12mm) and the 80 degree long eye relief designs such as the Stellalyra 80 LER:

StellaLyra 20mm 2" 80º LER / UWA Eyepiece | First Light Optics

Wow, the stellaLyra UWA have the same ER as the Delos but have a wider 8 deg AFOV and 50 to 60% cheaper. I have to find a review on these!

The ES 92 degrees EP does mention long ER but unable to find the actual length. Shame there are only two focal lengths and they are more expensive . Have to use the FLO calculator to see if the extra 12 deg AFOV is worth the extra!

Thanks

Edit

Found an excellent information excel spreadsheet on every eyepiece there is via a link over the pond at Cloudy Nights. 

Will be studying this tomorrow!

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Coolhand1988
Information

[Louis D]

Check your eyeglass prescription.  If you have low astigmatism (CYL or Cylinder) of 0.5 diopters or less, you can probably get away without using eyeglasses at the eyepiece.

You can put your glasses on a retainer leash around your neck to keep them handy for looking at the sky naked eye.

Get a pair of single vision eyeglasses set for distance vision for use at the eyepiece if you insist on using them or absolutely need them.  That way, the entire field of view will be in focus at once.  Online stores can make you a pair for a very reasonable price.  Get the lowest index plastic lenses (generally cheapest and thickest) to minimize chromatic aberrations off axis.

The Pentax XW (70 degrees, not the newer 85 degrees ones) line of eyepieces is also an excellent choice for long eye relief.

If you use slower scopes (Maks in particular), the Baader Hyperion line can work well.

Binoviewing is best for solar system objects.  Monoviewing tends to win out for DSO viewing.  Some folks never get on well with BVing.  It tends to be a bit fiddly.

[Coolhand1988]

48 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Check your eyeglass prescription.  If you have low astigmatism (CYL or Cylinder) of 0.5 diopters or less, you can probably get away without using eyeglasses at the eyepiece.

You can put your glasses on a retainer leash around your neck to keep them handy for looking at the sky naked eye.

Get a pair of single vision eyeglasses set for distance vision for use at the eyepiece if you insist on using them or absolutely need them.  That way, the entire field of view will be in focus at once.  Online stores can make you a pair for a very reasonable price.  Get the lowest index plastic lenses (generally cheapest and thickest) to minimize chromatic aberrations off axis.

The Pentax XW (70 degrees, not the newer 85 degrees ones) line of eyepieces is also an excellent choice for long eye relief.

If you use slower scopes (Maks in particular), the Baader Hyperion line can work well.

Binoviewing is best for solar system objects.  Monoviewing tends to win out for DSO viewing.  Some folks never get on well with BVing.  It tends to be a bit fiddly.

Thanks for that explanation and ideas.

I just checked my prescription and the right eye has -0.25 under CYL.

I hadn't really bothered what the CYL meant on my prescription. Have to now look-up what "AXIS" = 10.0 means as well.

Yeah I read most observers with very big refractors swear by binoviewing. It can be very expensive getting quality eyepieces twice. 

That does make sense about DSOs with binos. I remember I had to always use adverted vision on mostly all of them, but I only had a 6" reflector to view them back in the early 80s.

There is something else I have been meaning to ask. Do visual observers still use filters for light pollution , etc, for planets and DSOs.? 

Thanks

 

 

[RT65CB-SWL]

9 hours ago, Coolhand1988 said:

...

The Badder Morpheus eyepiece range  appear to have reasonable eye relief in all FL, ( with the rubber cup down ),  as do the Televue delite and delos range.  Once over a certain AFOV,  the eye relief becomes smaller for mid to low FL eyepieces.

...

Keep an eye open for TeleVue Radian's too. They were the predecessor of the DeLite series and 58° AFOV. They occasionally come up for sale in classifieds section or UKAB&S.

Edited October 5, 2023 by RT65CB-SWL

[Zermelo]

7 hours ago, Coolhand1988 said:

The Badder Morpheus eyepiece range  appear to have reasonable eye relief in all FL

See this post for the actual vs nominal relief for the Morpheus range (and a few other premium EPs)

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/413521-what-would-the-“best-of-each-range”-set-be/page/4/#comment-4412436

 

[Carbon Brush]

Thanks @Louis D for bringing up astigmatism.
In simple terms, if you don't need astig correction, forget the specs and rack the focus in/out to compensate.

[doublevodka]

To echo above, distance can be well compensated for with focusing, if you need glasses for close up too, maybe get a cheap pair of reading glasses (looks like you already have you prescription), they can be hung round your neck/stuck on your head until you need them, will honestly make your life easier.

As for binoviewers, I've only tried the cheaper end of the range, they were ok for lunar and planetary. If you are serious about going down that route and looking at premium eyepieces then I'd say look at Baader, Denkmier and Zeiss binoviewers.

[PeterStudz]

A few random observations about wearing glasses at the eyepiece…

I’m very short sighted with slight astigmatism. But I don’t find observing without my glasses an issue. Apart from the fact that my finder won’t focus with glasses off - I’m too short sighted. I also have contact lenses which I occasionally use while observing. 

However, my daughter prefers to observe wearing her glasses. So I often wear mine so that I can see how she sees. 

I have a few BST StarGuiders. These have a big rubber eyecup. I find that with glasses the view is more comfortable if the eyecup on these is removed.

On bright objects (eg the moon & planets) glasses can cause glare and reflections. A variable polarising filter can cut these down. And in the daytime (white light solar and daytime Venus) you can get annoying rejections from stray light. An observing hood or hoody helps here.

I also suffer from floaters. Although still there when wearing glasses I definitely notice fewer floaters. Why I haven’t a clue. 

[Coolhand1988]

Thanks all for those replies👍.

Guess I needed to know how observers with long sighted vision ideal method for eyepiece viewing.

The ES 92 degree eyepieces have an ER of 19 and 20 mm. Also, that eyepiece excel spreadsheet has all the eyepieces ranges up until 2018. It looks like the StellalLyra UWA EPs are fairly new!

So "axis = 10" relates to how much correction is needed for astigmatism(10) in degrees. Only my right eye has this( typical, viewing eye as well). I had to start wearing glasses about 5 years ago. Didn't think anything about my prescription details before then. I definitely do now.

Many thanks for the replies on this thread. I now have a good idea what eyepiece range to go for, as well as my budget!

Thanks

 

 

[Zermelo]

1 hour ago, Coolhand1988 said:

that eyepiece excel spreadsheet has all the eyepieces ranges up until 2018. It looks like the StellalLyra UWA EPs are fairly new!

You didn't say which spreadsheet you had found on CN, but if it was Don Pensack's, he updates it annually. The 2023 edition is here, and it includes the Stellalyra LERs.

[Coolhand1988]

4 hours ago, Zermelo said:

You didn't say which spreadsheet you had found on CN, but if it was Don Pensack's, he updates it annually. The 2023 edition is here, and it includes the Stellalyra LERs.

Many thanks for that. I found the 2018 version via google search for that link to CN. I pay more attention next time.

Thanks

[John]

The Stellalyra range is relatively new and, as far as I know, the branding is exclusive to FLO.

The products are often available under other brandings as well (FLO are quite open about this) but the FLO versions are usually excellent value.

Orion (USA) for example also have those 80 degree eyepieces:

Orion LHD 80-Degree Lanthanum Ultra-Wide 1.25"/2" Eyepieces (telescope.com)

You asked earlier about filters for observing.

Others have their own approaches of course but personally I use UHC and O-III filters to enhance the views of nebulae but I don't tend to use filters for planetary observing. Galaxies respond best to getting under a dark sky rather than through the use of a filter.

 

 

 

[Coolhand1988]

6 minutes ago, John said:

The Stellalyra range is relatively new and, as far as I know, the branding is exclusive to FLO.

The products are often available under other brandings as well (FLO are quite open about this) but the FLO versions are usually excellent value.

Orion (USA) for example also have those 80 degree eyepieces:

Orion LHD 80-Degree Lanthanum Ultra-Wide 1.25"/2" Eyepieces (telescope.com)

You asked earlier about filters for observing.

Others have their own approaches of course but personally I use UHC and O-III filters to enhance the views of nebulae but I don't tend to use filters for planetary observing. Galaxies respond best to getting under a dark sky rather than through the use of a filter.

 

 

Yes, I had an older version(2018) of that spreadsheet. 

I did read that the Orion LHDs are practically identically to the StellaLyra range. I do some digging on weight and price.

Oddly enough, the new spreadsheet on the Baader Morpheus EPs,  gives slightly different smaller eye reliefs on the smaller focal length EPs from the 2018 spreadsheet and the FLO website.

Also I think the 17.5mm version has either been misquoted or it's been redesign.

It's very interesting to hear about filters for visual. Astrophotographers swear by them. I take it these visual filters are not suitable for AP and vice versa?

Thanks

 

 

[Nik271]

The visual and the astrophotography filters are usually different since cameras see  wider spectrum than us and collect photons over long period of time . So the astrophotography filters will be too dim for visual. The one exception is the oxygen iii filter and the nearby H beta line which are sort of fine for both applications. But again the specialist astrophotography Oiii filters will be very narrow band and expensive.

[Coolhand1988]

4 hours ago, Nik271 said:

The visual and the astrophotography filters are usually different since cameras see  wider spectrum than us and collect photons over long period of time . So the astrophotography filters will be too dim for visual. The one exception is the oxygen iii filter and the nearby H beta line which are sort of fine for both applications. But again the specialist astrophotography Oiii filters will be very narrow band and expensive.

Thanks, I was quite curious on this as my preference will be visual as before,  but EAA is really popular these days and a step up from visual. 

I have another newbie question on eyepieces. If you have more 1.25 inch EPs than 2 inch, is best to use a 2inch diagonal then use an adapter for 1.25, or just use two diagonals to fit the size of the eyepiece being used?

Thanks

[John]

37 minutes ago, Coolhand1988 said:

I have another newbie question on eyepieces. If you have more 1.25 inch EPs than 2 inch, is best to use a 2inch diagonal then use an adapter for 1.25, or just use two diagonals to fit the size of the eyepiece being used?

Thanks

I feel that using a 2 inch diagonal with a 1.25 inch adapter is the best approach. Less expense and hassle as well.