Powermate v ES 2x Tele extender.

[bosun21]

Is there any benefit to be gained in acquiring a 2.5x powermate over my existing 2x ES extender? Despite the increase in magnification are there any benefits to be had? I am pleased with my ES extender as it performs well but I have this niggle that a PM would be better. Thoughts anyone?

[John]

I've used them both. Not a lot in the performance but I believe that the Powermate is just that "niggling" bit better. By better I mean totally invisible in the optical train apart from the magnification amplification. 

Take this with a little pinch of salt though - as is probably widely known on here, I am a bit of a Tele Vue fanatic 🙄 

[globular]

+1 for the PM being invisible. I don't have the ES to compare - but as you already have that one you'll know if its invisible or not already.

[Piero]

I had a TV powermate 2.5x and a Bresser SA 2x barlow (which is likely equivalent to the ES 2x tele-extender). Apart from an increase in magnification in the Televue, being 2.5x, the views delivered by these two items were pretty much comparable. Ergonomically, the TV was slimmer although a bit taller.

In my opinion, both are very good. The only barlows I found to be a step up from them optically are the Baader VIP barlow and the Baader Zeiss barlow. To my eye, the glass of these two barlows is comparable (if not identical), but some folks reported the Zeiss barlow to give a slight improvement. In terms of design, the VIP is super-configurable, and that's the main reason why I kept it over the baader zeiss barlow.

To go back to your original question, I would not replace your ES 2x barlow with a powermate 2.5x unless the magnification factor of the powermate suits you better.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Piero

[Piero]

Regarding the invisibility of the TV powermate, well, in my opinion that's a true argument with TV and other eyepieces of quality lower than TV.

When I compared a 12mm TV Delos vs Docter 12.5mm, the views delivered by the docter were just optically better to my eye (aside from AMD which I do not bother at all). When a powermate 2.5x was added, the 12mm Delos and 12.5mm Docter delivered almost identical views, pretty much like a delos of shorter focal length. I had the same experience with the Zeiss zoom 25.1-6.7mm + powermate 2.5x. Essentially, It was as if the docter and zoom lost their edge over TV eyepieces. In contrast, the Baader VIP barlow added to the Docter or Zeiss zoom retained the edge over TV. In line with this, I've also detected better views of Naglers, Delos and Vixen SLVs using the VIP barlow, compared to without. For instance my Vixen SLV 5mm + VIP Barlow was almost as close as my Vixen HR 2.4mm.

[John]

I have used a VIP barlow with the Leica ASPH zoom but didn't find the view quality exceeded that of my Pentax XW's. I found the zoom + VIP a faff to use so I didn't hang onto either for long.

Others rave about these items though so YMMV as the old saying goes 🙂

 

[Mr Spock]

For planets a PM plus ortho gives a cleaner view than any other eyepiece I've had.

[Neil_104]

Did you go for the PM in the end? I bought an ES 2x to begin with but I had that same niggling doubt that the TV would have been the better option. So I sold the ES and bought the 2.5x PM. I wasn't able to do a side by side or anything like that, but just getting rid of that niggling doubt was enough to justify the PM for me. I've been very happy using it ever since!

[bosun21]

38 minutes ago, Neil_104 said:

Did you go for the PM in the end? I bought an ES 2x to begin with but I had that same niggling doubt that the TV would have been the better option. So I sold the ES and bought the 2.5x PM. I wasn't able to do a side by side or anything like that, but just getting rid of that niggling doubt was enough to justify the PM for me. I've been very happy using it ever since!

I have at the moment still stuck with the ES 2x but like you  I also have that niggle at the back of my mind is the PM better. I very seldom use any kind of extender as I can reach high magnifications with just my eyepieces alone. My shortest FL is 714mm which with a 4.5mm Morpheus gives me 158x. That being said when nights of good seeing do come around I use the ES with this scope which appears invisible to my eyes. I still have that niggle though.

Edited November 12, 2023 by bosun21

[Neil_104]

It's annoying that niggle isn't it 😄 But if you're happy with the results from the ES then perhaps it's only the extra bump in mag that would be worth considering swapping it for the PM. I bought mine as I needed more power from my 60mm (360mm FL) for double star observations. I agree that the 4.5mm gives plenty of magnification at 714mm FL - that's about the limit of eye floaters becoming too distracting for me. This was another reason I went for the PM - so I can use my existing WO binoviewers  and get the best possible image and lessen the floaters!

[cajen2]

You can split the magnification difference by getting a Baader 2.25x Barlow; the one made to go with the Hyperion zoom. It fits any 1.25" EP as it just screws into the filter thread. It's tiny, so you hardly know it's there and optically very clear. As EPs tend to be sold in similar f/ls, the extra .25x often means I can get exactly the right mag for a target.

Edited November 13, 2023 by cajen2

[Mr Spock]

One of the disadvantages of a x2 Barlow is you often double up magnifications. I think a x3 is better.

A x3 for example with 25mm, 18mm and 12mm eyepieces, would give you 8.33mm, 6mm and 4mm too. Or with a x2.5 10mm,  7.2mm and 4.8mm.