Astrophotography and budget

[Dannomiss]

Hello,A  friend of mine said they want to get into astrophotography and have a budget of £500. I've said that you won't get much of a set up with that as you need a decent mount/tripod, camera etc... But he is also just a beginner and said he would be happy just using his smartphone while he learns. The other issue is he doesn't drive and he has also suggested the Skywatcher classic 200P but I've said this is around 27kg in total and told them if they don't drive then they will never use it as it's so heavy to carry around. For £500 I've said he could go with something like this as more compact and can get him started, but I realise the 127 is a slow scope at (f/11.8).

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/telescopes-in-stock/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

Or something like this but again could be heavy

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-eq3-2.html

Any thoughts, advice etc

Thanks in advance 

Dan

Edited August 3, 2023 by Dannomiss

[Sabalias]

In my experience you are quite right, £500 won't get much of a set up. I would suggest looking at second hand, you can get more for your money (though astro kit tends to hold its value quite well).

Does your friend have a DLSR with a long lens? If so then a Star Adventurer GTi and tripod comes in at £559 on FLO and that might be a good place to start; you can get some lovely images of DSOs with that sort of kit. Alternatively there's the Star Adventurer 2i and tripod for £415.

Stu

Edited August 3, 2023 by Sabalias
Update with SA2i

[Dannomiss]

15 minutes ago, Sabalias said:

In my experience you are quite right, £500 won't get much of a set up. I would suggest looking at second hand, you can get more for your money (though astro kit tends to hold its value quite well).

Does your friend have a DLSR with a long lens? If so then a Star Adventurer GTi and tripod comes in at £559 on FLO and that might be a good place to start; you can get some lovely images of DSOs with that sort of kit. Alternatively there's the Star Adventurer 2i and tripod for £415.

Stu

No They don't have an SLR Camera unfortunately and are sold on getting a telescope

[Elp]

For a decent budget AP rig their budget will need to increase to 1500-2000. There is no real way around it, the scope you've recommended is decent but not for beginner AP as it's long focal length, which requires even more stringent requirements like a sturdier tripod and mount, better autoguiding (simple tracking may not be suitable).

The SA GTI is a good recommendation, pair it with a pre owned astro modded dslr (they're not that expensive) and decent prime lens around 100mm and they'll be good to go. Note some sort of small budget will be needed for extras such as hardware (brackets, fixings) and maybe dew heater bands for humid or coldish climates.

Another option which will be near the budget is a Dwarf2 or Seestar automated EAA scope, you can't look through them directly as it's all app based but simple setup all in one unit and you can see the images in real time, and even real time stack and save the images for post processing afterward. If I were starting I'd go with the latter as ZWO are more experienced in this field having produced asiairs for automated telescope control for a number of years.

[Elp]

Nothing wrong with getting a telescope to start with, they'd have to temper their expectations for doing AP with it though. Simple photos via a mobile phone held at the eyepiece is possible but don't expect typical AP quality.

[knobby]

Plenty of options here https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?typechoice[]=Mount-Pier-Tripod&minprice=&maxprice= for a mount, the camera  / telescope  might be a bit tough for sub £500 though.

Scopes https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?typechoice[]=Telescope-Reflector&typechoice[]=Telescope-Refractor&minprice=&maxprice=

Cameras https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?typechoice[]=CCD+equip&typechoice[]=SLR+Camera+equip&minprice=&maxprice=

Just be careful to check seller, speak to them and don't just email. If you're unsure post link on here and ask for opinions.

Your friend will also need to research how to find objects etc.

Example of whats possible second hand from above ...

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=202884 £160 tracking mount

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=203342 £225 refractor scope

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=203287 £175 Modded DSLR

I know thats £560, but keep looking and / or make offers 🙂

 

 

 

[Elp]

The cheapest solution to tracking sidereal motion for a camera is to DIY a barn door tracker. The next best commercial solution I had was an Omegon LX, you'll need to source an EQ wedge and a way to mount them together, works well with wide angle lenses. Polar alignment is a bit of a pain though, but if imaging wide angle it doesn't need to be that accurate. And it's purely mechanical which is a bonus.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Elp

[malc-c]

With an imaging rig rather than visual the mount is the key component. It needs to be motorized and able to counteract the Earths rotation, and needs to be able to provide a rock steady platform for the camera / scope combination.  The imaging components can be anything from a cheap Dslr with a lens between 80-200mm through to a dedicated astro CCD camera depending on the expectations of your friend.  If he is happy with wide field images of constellations then even some of the compact cameras can do that on a small mount, but if he's after Hubble like images of fain nebula then he will be very disappointed as the equipment required will be way beyond his £500 budget.   

The 200P is nice for visual.  The 200PDS is the version developed for imaging.  However for stability it needs to be mounted on an HEQ5 mount or larger, so this will be double your friends budget and they still need camera's and a guide scope and camera to get the results.  Often people compromise, they opt for a visual set up and then try and modify it / upgrade it several months after which again can be false ecconomy.

Buying secondhand will make his money go further, but shop wisely as there are scammers out there and sometimes if genuine the equipment often is not in the condition claimed.  If he's new to astronomy then he wants a decent start and not be in a position where he has to fix problems such as collimation with no experience.

So your friend has two options, save up and extend his budget, or opt for a wide field camera option on a smaller compact tracking mount.

[knobby]

I love helping people spend money 😂

And saving too hopefully !

 

[Dannomiss]

Thanks everyone. I get £500 won't go far at all. I knew that but wanted to check 🙂 Its actually for my Mates son who is 16 hence the £500 budget - he is saving up and wants a scope to start. So 

So If he just getting starting as a beginner and just wants a scope (Forgetting astrophotography and deep space) Do you think the Skywatcher Skymax 127 is a good scope for starters just for astronomy, Stars, planets etc https://www.firstlightoptics.com/telescopes-in-stock/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

[Elp]

One of the main factors of what you'll be able to see is the local light pollution. A lot of us are only able to use scopes to see solar system targets and star fields especially from urban skies, other than Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, other planets will be dots, Venus just a blur of cloud, the moon you'll see great, solar is completely different and requires the necessary safety equipment. I can't even see globular star clusters where I am (you'd think a clumped object of thousands of stars would be easy to see). Dobsonians come highly recommended and are within budget, but do put some thought into what the operators expectations will be, as well as their overall enthusiasm, otherwise it might end up as an expensive paperweight. Those of us whom have kept at it have always had an interest in cosmology with or without scope.

[bosun21]

16 minutes ago, Dannomiss said:

Thanks everyone. I get £500 won't go far at all. I knew that but wanted to check 🙂 Its actually for my Mates son who is 16 hence the £500 budget - he is saving up and wants a scope to start. So 

So If he just getting starting as a beginner and just wants a scope (Forgetting astrophotography and deep space) Do you think the Skywatcher Skymax 127 is a good scope for starters just for astronomy, Stars, planets etc https://www.firstlightoptics.com/telescopes-in-stock/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

Yes it's a great little scope for the planets, moon and some small bright DSO's. It's also a go to so it will help him find targets as he probably doesn't yet know his way around the sky. It's also got tracking so will keep the targets in the eyepiece negating having to constantly move the telescope. Regards photography he can buy a phone mount and use his phone to snap pictures of the targets. Further down the road he could also buy a planetary camera and take short videos of the planets and stack them into a respectable image. It would definitely keep him busy for a long time.

[Dannomiss]

1 hour ago, Elp said:

Nothing wrong with getting a telescope to start with, they'd have to temper their expectations for doing AP with it though. Simple photos via a mobile phone held at the eyepiece is possible but don't expect typical AP quality.

I shared with him some photos I took through the eye piece using a smartphone using a skywatcher heritage 150p. Obvious Saturn, Jupiter and the moon were combined in photoshop...*obviously* lol

 

[GTom]

For DSO's I see two entry points around £500, obviously both with compromise: second hand 130-150mm Newtonian with motorized RA-axis. There is e.g. an Astromaster 130EQ on ABsell (I have no connection to the seller). That setup will give you room for ~30sec lucky imaging, the Dobsonian not.

Alternative is a tracker capable of carrying a 200mm telephoto lens.

Both options need a modified DSLR, which can be sourced as normal DSLR's from ebay and DIY full-spectrum modded following e.g. the procedures on lifepixel. E.g: canon 2000D around £200, matching "L" clip filter: ~£80. Advisable to learn some DIY around cameras and gear, especially if cost is of concern. Ready astro-modded cameras are usually generations older for more ££.

Edited August 3, 2023 by GTom

[Dannomiss]

I actually think my friends son is mixing up astronomy and astrophotography and not really knowing how much these things cost and the implications of buying cheap. I think personally a great and portable telescope would be the best option so he can learn the equipment, explore the sky etc and then go from there. I have a good few BST StarGuider eyepieces, binoculars etc to lend him to upgrade his eye pieces straight away... so we will see 🙂

Thanks so much everyone

[AstroMuni]

3 hours ago, Dannomiss said:

I have a good few BST StarGuider eyepieces, binoculars etc to lend him to upgrade his eye pieces straight away...

That makes sense. Get him to try out the hobby with bins first and perhaps get him to attend a local astro club. That will inform him of the options and budgets involved

[malc-c]

If he is only 16 then I wouldn't invest a lot as the interest my not last because he may want a motorbike or car a year or two later and his interest may wane.

Not saying this is the ideal set up, but it has its merits.  £439 will get him a 6" Skywatcher (150mm) f5 reflector on an EQ3-2 mount.  It's a visual set up as no motors are include, but options can be purchased at a later date (birthdays or Christmas presents).  Single axis motor option is £85 rising to £369 for the full blown synscan goto system.   It would make a decent platform should he later wish to get into serious imaging, or if he does end up following other interests and the scope is just gathering dust, it will have a decent resale value.

[Jules Tohpipi]

9 hours ago, Dannomiss said:

Thanks everyone. I get £500 won't go far at all. I knew that but wanted to check 🙂 Its actually for my Mates son who is 16 hence the £500 budget - he is saving up and wants a scope to start. So 

So If he just getting starting as a beginner and just wants a scope (Forgetting astrophotography and deep space) Do you think the Skywatcher Skymax 127 is a good scope for starters just for astronomy, Stars, planets etc https://www.firstlightoptics.com/telescopes-in-stock/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

Yes, this is a good starting point . Small, portable, stores away neat and can see plenty of objects easily rather than being lost. Can drive it from a mobile phone - which will engage a teenager, too

It's easy to update this for equatorial/astrophotography use with the firmware update on the Sky-Watcher website for EQ mode. Add a wedge, threaded bar and counterweight and good to go with a camera and a fast refractor on the AZ-GTi. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Jules Tohpipi