Possible change from Stellarmate/Ekos to NINA.

[George Gearless]

Hi software wizards.

I've only ever used Stellarmate and Ekos to operate my gear. And until recently, I've only ever used WiFi to connect between my gear and my PC (on which I ran Kstars/Ekos). But now I have a permanent setup with ethernet connection from Stellarmate to my PC. I'm still having occasional crashes of Kstars, and also still having problems with the downloading of image freezing up. I had previously ascribed this issue to WiFi connection issues. But since I'm now using a direct cable, that explanation won't suffice anymore. The problem isn't consistent. Sometimes it freezes when downloading from my primary camera. And sometimes it's from my guide camera. Rebooting Ekos and reconnecting seems to be the only remedy. And sometimes that doesn't work either so I just give up. This is an unsatisfactory way of working. 

So, I've been looking around for an alternative. NINA looks like it pretty much does what Ekos does, and is reportedly more stable. So I'm considering it. But oooh do I have questions :). Granted, I could just read the online NINA manual. But in the interest of time (more specifically, my time), I have it boiled down to only a few questions that I hope you guys can answer with only minimal effort.

1. Can I utilize my current setup with Stellarmate to communicate with my PC using the ethernet cable? Or are we talking new hardware (sockets, USB hubs, routers, the lot) to be able to use NINA?

2. To your knowledge, are there features/operations/utilities that Ekos has, that NINA just doesn't. And that you wish it did?

3. I'm a big fan of the plate solving function in Ekos. It works quick and flawlessly. I'm aware that NINA also has plate solving. But I'm worried about some older posts I've read that report several problems and workarounds needed to get it working properly. Have these issues been resolved and do you find it "quick and easy" to plate solve with NINA?

 

I'm still searching the web for solving my image download freeze problem in Ekos, and also hoping that stability issues might have been addressed in the most recent update. But in case neither issue can be resolved (permanently), I'm starting to look for alternatives. With the above questions in mind, do you think NINA would be a contender?

 

George 

 

[Stuart1971]

Well you are in the exact same position imwas 18 months ago, I was a Stellarmate user, with Kstars and Ekos and loved it, I was a real advocate for it, and worked a lot with the developer in helping make it better…

‘Then I started to get issues that none of us could sort out and so I made the move away, and chose NINA and a cheap mini PC on my mount to run it all, and it’s absolutely the best thing I ever did, hands down, NINA is superb and the development team on the discord forum are superb at helping with issues and it’s constantly being developed, and it’s FREE…

It has everything you need and more, and Kstars and Ekos does not have anything that NINA does not….

My advice is to watch some videos on NINA as I found that the layout confused me a bit especially when I wanted to re arrange panels for my own needs…its take a bit of getting used to, but once you do, you will not regret it at all..

Mini PC on the mount something like the Mele Quieter 3 and then remote into that from a PC indoors to run it all…

HTH

[scotty38]

My 2p for what it's worth but I am a huge NINA fan so let me get that out of the way 🙂

1. My setup consists of a mini pc running NINA and that PC sits on my network, connected via ethernet as it happens. I remote to that pc from either my Pixinsight workstation (ethernet connected) or via my laptop (wirelessly connected). I never have any dropouts.

2. Never used EKOS etc so not sure

3. No issues with platesolving. NINA doesn't do it directly but calls the tool you choose. I use ASTAP and have zero issues.

 

I guess you could install NINA and try it without removing/changing any of the EKOS setup?

[George Gearless]

1 hour ago, Stuart1971 said:

Well you are in the exact same position imwas 18 months ago, I was a Stellarmate user, with Kstars and Ekos and loved it, I was a real advocate for it, and worked a lot with the developer in helping make it better…

‘Then I started to get issues that none of us could sort out and so I made the move away, and chose NINA and a cheap mini PC on my mount to run it all, and it’s absolutely the best thing I ever did, hands down, NINA is superb and the development team on the discord forum are superb at helping with issues and it’s constantly being developed, and it’s FREE…

It has everything you need and more, and Kstars and Ekos does not have anything that NINA does not….

My advice is to watch some videos on NINA as I found that the layout confused me a bit especially when I wanted to re arrange panels for my own needs…its take a bit of getting used to, but once you do, you will not regret it at all..

Mini PC on the mount something like the Mele Quieter 3 and then remote into that from a PC indoors to run it all…

HTH

I'm in the fortunate situation that I've recently finished my home observatory. So no more running in and out for me (well, less than before, anyway). It was in fact during one of my dry runs in my new surroundings, that I revisited the frustrations of Ekos freezing the image download. 

This might be a stupid question, but couldn't I just run NINA on the stationary PC in my obsy? Could I run the relevant USB connected hardware (Mount, primary camera, guide camera and focuser) through a USB hub that I could extend to the PC?

Both you and Scotty38 mention a mini PC, but the reason for this eludes me. Could you elaborate?

George.

[adyj1]

1 minute ago, George Gearless said:

This might be a stupid question, but couldn't I just run NINA on the stationary PC in my obsy? Could I run the relevant USB connected hardware (Mount, primary camera, guide camera and focuser) through a USB hub that I could extend to the PC?

yes!

You just need a PC that you can leave on throughout your imaging sessions and has cables that reach... You could use a laptop if you wanted. A mini PC fits this bill and can also be mounted on the scope itself if you want, drastically reducing the number of trailing wires. I didn't go for the OTA-mounted PC and got an i5 with 8GB RAM on ebay for £60-odd quid. 

A mini PC is also easy to take with you if you go on an astrocamp 😉  

Ady

[Stuart1971]

2 minutes ago, George Gearless said:

I'm in the fortunate situation that I've recently finished my home observatory. So no more running in and out for me (well, less than before, anyway). It was in fact during one of my dry runs in my new surroundings, that I revisited the frustrations of Ekos freezing the image download. 

This might be a stupid question, but couldn't I just run NINA on the stationary PC in my obsy? Could I run the relevant USB connected hardware (Mount, primary camera, guide camera and focuser) through a USB hub that I could extend to the PC?

Both you and Scotty38 mention a mini PC, but the reason for this eludes me. Could you elaborate?

George.

Ok, so like me and @scotty38 you have an obsy, we both started without them so our rig was outside on its own, so a mini PC on the mount was the way to go, no trailing cables apart from 1 power cable to the mount, then we moved to an obsy and just carried on the same way, so I only have one cable up to my mount, and all the other items of kit are connected to my Pegasus UPB and then in turn that is connected to the mini PC which runs all the NINA and other software.

then we sit indoors and remote in to the mini PC for full control, in my case wirelessly…

if you already have a bigger PC off the mount, then yes of course use that with a USB hub on the mount, then you will still only have 2 cables to the mount, USB and power…it just comes down to personal choice…I nearly moved my PC off the mount when I built the obsy but then though why, 🤔 I will have another trailing  cable that way…so left it on…

[George Gearless]

21 minutes ago, adyj1 said:

yes!

You just need a PC that you can leave on throughout your imaging sessions and has cables that reach... You could use a laptop if you wanted. A mini PC fits this bill and can also be mounted on the scope itself if you want, drastically reducing the number of trailing wires. I didn't go for the OTA-mounted PC and got an i5 with 8GB RAM on ebay for £60-odd quid. 

A mini PC is also easy to take with you if you go on an astrocamp 😉  

Ady

Good point about the mobility. 

I have access to a summerhouse on an island, Bortle 2 class. I go once or twice a year in the winter. It could be an issue.

Duly noted, with thanks.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by George Gearless
grammar

[George Gearless]

33 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Ok, so like me and @scotty38 you have an obsy, we both started without them so our rig was outside on its own, so a mini PC on the mount was the way to go, no trailing cables apart from 1 power cable to the mount, then we moved to an obsy and just carried on the same way, so I only have one cable up to my mount, and all the other items of kit are connected to my Pegasus UPB and then in turn that is connected to the mini PC which runs all the NINA and other software.

then we sit indoors and remote in to the mini PC for full control, in my case wirelessly…

if you already have a bigger PC off the mount, then yes of course use that with a USB hub on the mount, then you will still only have 2 cables to the mount, USB and power…it just comes down to personal choice…I nearly moved my PC off the mount when I built the obsy but then though why, 🤔 I will have another trailing  cable that way…so left it on…

 

True. Why change what works. Your mini PC makes sense now. Couldn't quite grasp why it was there :).

The thing is; money is a huge object right now. Upon showing my wife the last receipt for the yoga mat floors I've put down in my increasingly expensive obsy, I had to seek refuge behind the couch and throw small pieces of chocolate out to her, until she'd calmed down. 

I'm more likely to survive the purchase of a 5 socket USB hub with extra long cord, than buying even a well used minicomputer. And if it works, I'm good.

Still going to give Ekos a few more tries (after appropriate updates and google searches). But right now NINA's looking pretty good.
 

[scotty38]

You already had the info but yep I'm the same as @Stuart1971 The only slight difference for me, just for conversations sake, is that my mini pc is now off the scope. The reason I did this is because I have an additional 2 chunky serial cables that need to run to the PC so rather than run them to it on the scope I moved it off. I now just have the one long USB3 cable from Mini PC to my Pegasus power box (plus the power too of course).