TS 102 F7 + Baader Maxbright II

[Apprentice]

Hello there,

 

First a short backstory, I own a 80mm vintage achro, I always wanted to go with binoviewing (much more comfortable and on some nights my main eye cant help but produce tears). I have also reached the limits of this scope too many times and am looking for a better solution, loving fracs simplicity and ease of use, points me towards a mid f ratio of 7, to check more boxes.

Being finally ready to (almost) pull the trigger and get myself the TS 102 f7 ED (fpl-51 ohara). At 740 EUR, with it's 2.5 RP focuser seems like a good bargain.

Having spent countless hours reading doing the research (kind of), since I have already bought the maxbright 2 binos (on its way as i type this), i am still not eprfectly sure what I need to go with them.

 

I have a 1,25 diagonal mirror (di-E by altair astro) but the kind dudes at a retailer told me that i need a "45 degree amici prism by bader" , when I asked them about what I need.

main usage would be with dual BCOs, thinking of getting 10mm for planetary, and 18mm for some dsos.

i have a baader qbarlow where the lense can be unthreaded from the tube to give a 1.25x barlow. Is this usable in any case to expand my focal range for the binos?

 

much obliged for any help, cheers

 

Edit: i have a few 1,25" filters (astronomik uhc, baader M&S neod) are they any use or can be comoned with barlow and binos?

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Apprentice

[Franklin]

If you've invested in the Maxbright II it would be better to get the Baader T2 32mm prism diagonal with a 2"-T2 nosepiece, that way you will be able to fit the Maxbrights directly to the diagonal saving loads of in focus and the Baader 1.7x GPC is recommended, not just to get focus but is also a corrector lens for the binos. You'll have a very desirable set up when completed. The BCO's, 18mm and 10mm both work very well with this set up.

[mikeDnight]

Why would you need a 45 degree prism? Certainly ot for astronomy!

[Franklin]

Also, to save money, you could use the Maxbrights with a T2-1.25" nosepiece and the Q-Barlow nosepiece added, to get focus, in your existing 1.25" mirror diagonal.

[Franklin]

1 minute ago, mikeDnight said:

Why would you need a 45 degree prism? Certainly ot for astronomy!

The guys in the shop are on commission?

[Franklin]

31 minutes ago, Apprentice said:

Edit: i have a few 1,25" filters (astronomik uhc, baader M&S neod) are they any use or can be comoned with barlow and binos?

If using a diagonal with 1.25" nosepiece then yes you can try your filters there.

[mikeDnight]

18mm with a 2X Barlow on the nose of your binoviewer will give very nice lunar and planetary views. I think you'll find the 18mm's very comfortable. 10mm may be ok, but could push the comfort zone a little.  Also, apart from very few brighter deep sky targets, I find using a single eyepiece in the scope, without binoviewer, works best.  So for moon, planets and the Sun, I use my binoviewer, but for deep sky and double stars I use mono viewing.

[Apprentice]

51 minutes ago, Franklin said:

If you've invested in the Maxbright II it would be better to get the Baader T2 32mm prism diagonal with a 2"-T2 nosepiece, that way you will be able to fit the Maxbrights directly to the diagonal saving loads of in focus and the Baader 1.7x GPC is recommended, not just to get focus but is also a corrector lens for the binos. You'll have a very desirable set up when completed. The BCO's, 18mm and 10mm both work very well with this set up.

Talking about baader prisms, which of these would be the best choice:

https://www.astroshop.eu/diagonal-prisms/baader-zenith-prism-t-2-90d-32mm-prism/p,10810

https://www.astroshop.eu/diagonal-prisms/baader-zenith-prism-t-2-90-degree-32mm/p,10811

I'm guessing the latter has additional gizmos such as the nose piece and locm.

Also is the 1.7 GPC absolutely neccessary from the beginning. The thing with astro is as soon as you start buying the cost keep racking up.. (no need to mention the minute things i purchased previously ampunt to a good 4-4.5" APO or 8"SCT :))

If I understood correctly the GPC would effectively alter my magnification, would it be the same factor of 1.7?

 

Additional question 1: I have the Baader q bundle (6,8,18mm) for a few years, I believe that it's recommended that I buy a new set of twos to ensure getting them from the same batch, reduce the problems of pairing?

Addition question 2: you guys think getting the FPL3  lanthanum version of the scope for my purposes is worth the extra 50% of quatloos being asked for it? Starfield version would come to mind in that case.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Apprentice

[Apprentice]

In case I choose to save some coins to begin with and opt in for barlow, is this how it looks:

1. Place the diagonal mirror in the focuser

2. Place the q-barlow 2.25x in the diagonal

3. Place the binoviewers nosepiece in the barlow?

 

Edit:

What mag am I looking at with this setup and dual 18mm bcos? And can the range be expanded with prism and GPC, or just by using the qbarlow unthreaded lense somehow?

 

Cheers!

Edited March 5, 2023 by Apprentice

[Stu]

15 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

So for moon, planets and the Sun, I use my binoviewer, but for deep sky and double stars I use mono viewing.

Exactly the same for me Mike.

[Apprentice]

So just for the sake lf keeping my wallet in danger for the next few months:

Which EPs would be best chlice for this scope. Morpheus perhaps? Also if not morpheus, then I would be inclined to purchase a 2" diagonal (prism or mirror) for 2" EP.

 

[Apprentice]

19 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

18mm with a 2X Barlow on the nose of your binoviewer will give very nice lunar and planetary views. I think you'll find the 18mm's very comfortable. 10mm may be ok, but could push the comfort zone a little.  Also, apart from very few brighter deep sky targets, I find using a single eyepiece in the scope, without binoviewer, works best.  So for moon, planets and the Sun, I use my binoviewer, but for deep sky and double stars I use mono viewing.

⬆️⬆️

[mikeDnight]

Eyepieces can be very personal things, as what suits one may not suit another. Personally I think there's nothing to gain in using wide field eyepieces in a binoviewer. Orthoscopic's and good quality Plossl's are really all you'll need. I haven't used them, but the Starbase orthoscopic's have had some good feed back. And there's a 14mm that may be ideal for your F7 scope.  Flo sell them when they are in stock, and they aren't expensive! Others may be Televue Plossl's, Vixen SLV's. Fujiyama orthoscopic's.

 You could look out for secondhand golden oldies that are no longer in production such as Vixen LV's. 

[Apprentice]

10 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Eyepieces can be very personal things, as what suits one may not suit another. Personally I think there's nothing to gain in using wide field eyepieces in a binoviewer. Orthoscopic's and good quality Plossl's are really all you'll need. I haven't used them, but the Starbase orthoscopic's have had some good feed back. And there's a 14mm that may be ideal for your F7 scope.  Flo sell them when they are in stock, and they aren't expensive! Others may be Televue Plossl's, Vixen SLV's. Fujiyama orthoscopic's.

 You could look out for secondhand golden oldies that are no longer in production such as Vixen LV's. 

Sorry Mike, 

 

When I asked about EPs I meantthose for monoviewing. I will definitely stick to orthos for binos for now, but just in case I want to start using better EPs for wide field/ DSO, I am curious which tend to work best with f7 scopes.

 

And once again thank you all for your replies, already feel more confident going forward :))

[Franklin]

51 minutes ago, Apprentice said:

In case I choose to save some coins to begin with and opt in for barlow, is this how it looks:

1. Place the diagonal mirror in the focuser

2. Place the q-barlow 2.25x in the diagonal

3. Place the binoviewers nosepiece in the barlow?

Correct.

Be best to unscrew the barlow element nosepiece from the barlow body and screw this directly into the bino nosepiece. Am unsure what the amplification rate would be in this configuration. The Q-barlow you have gives 2.25x when an eyepiece is placed in the barlow and 1.3x (approx) when screwed directly into eyepiece. But the optical path of the binoviewer is longer so the power factor may even be higher than 2.25x. So the 18mm BCO are going to give quite high power with this set up as posted above. If you want lower powers with binoviewer you really need to get a scope that has a removable tube section to allow enough in focus to use the binoviewer and eyepieces at their native focal lengths.

FPL-53 gives better control of CA than FPL-51, in my experience at least.

[Franklin]

1 hour ago, Apprentice said:

Talking about baader prisms, which of these would be the best choice:

https://www.astroshop.eu/diagonal-prisms/baader-zenith-prism-t-2-90d-32mm-prism/p,10810

https://www.astroshop.eu/diagonal-prisms/baader-zenith-prism-t-2-90-degree-32mm/p,10811

1st one is all you need. The maxbrights have a T2 thread and will connect directly to the prism, the Baader GPC fits in the top of the diagonal. You'll need a T2 nosepiece for the telescope end of the prism and I would recommend a 2" nosepiece to give a more secure connection, binos can get quite heavy.

[Space Hopper]

Contrary to above, i think widefields work well in binoviewers.

More specifically 65-68º field of view class. 

Televue's 24mm Panoptics set a benchmark here. The best inch and a quarters for low power rich field binoviewing you can get.

And yes, i've had a Max 2 and use an F7 scope.

 

 

[mikeDnight]

19 minutes ago, Apprentice said:

Sorry Mike, 

 

When I asked about EPs I meantthose for monoviewing. I will definitely stick to orthos for binos for now, but just in case I want to start using better EPs for wide field/ DSO, I am curious which tend to work best with f7 scopes.

 

And once again thank you all for your replies, already feel more confident going forward :))

My mistake!

In that case, the Baader Morpheus are excellent. The 17.5mm is wonderful and it barlow really well, so you don't really need to buy the 9mm. Although the 9mm is a great eyepiece too. I believe the 14mm is the weakest of the bunch, and is the only one i haven't owned. Pentax XW's are top class too, but again the 14mm is the least popular due to it being poor around the edge of its field.

[Apprentice]

5 minutes ago, Franklin said:

a scope that has a removable tube section to allow enough in focus

Thanks Franklin!

What exactly does this mean, which scopes have that option. Frankly i'm afraid to open a new can of worms here :))

 

1 minute ago, Franklin said:

would recommend a 2" nosepiece to give a more secure connection, binos can get quite heavy

Does this 2" nosepiece fit in the prism I linked?

[Apprentice]

1 minute ago, Space Hopper said:

Contrary to above, i think widefields work well in binoviewers.

More specifically 65-68º field of view class. 

Televue's 24mm Panoptics set a benchmark here. The best inch and a quarters for low power rich field binoviewing you can get.

And yes, i've had a Max 2 and use an F7 scope.

 

 

Sounds appealing, thats for future reference though, as I'm shelling out well over a grand for the initial setup, these should come in the later months 🤞

 

Btw, are you using the GPC 1.7, and what mags does this yield?

[Space Hopper]

Yes, agreed.

A 2" nose is a must, and ideally a Baader Clicklock to hold it securely.

 

[Franklin]

1 minute ago, Space Hopper said:

Contrary to above, i think widefields work well in binoviewers.

More specifically 65-68º field of view class. 

Televue's 24mm Panoptics set a benchmark here. The best inch and a quarters for low power rich field binoviewing you can get.

And yes, i've had a Max 2 and use an F7 scope.

 

Is this possible because the Max 2 has a wider clear aperture than the more budget bino's? I think the clear aperture on mine is only 21mm and my wide field eyepiece showed vignetting. 

[Franklin]

5 minutes ago, Apprentice said:

Does this 2" nosepiece fit in the prism I linked?

Yes, Baader make 1.25" and 2" nosepieces, both with T2 threads. The Baader 32mm prism has T2 threads on both sides and is the shortest way to connect binoviewer to the scope. There are quite a few scopes on the market that have a removable section, either on the main tube or as a removable extension on the focuser unit.

[Space Hopper]

4 minutes ago, Apprentice said:

Thanks Franklin!

What exactly does this mean, which scopes have that option. Frankly i'm afraid to open a new can of worms here :))

 

Does this 2" nosepiece fit in the prism I linked?

Yes it will. T2 standard fit.

Regarding removable tubes for binoviewing in focus, not many scopes will offer this feature.

But if the scope is optimised for imaging it should have a decent amount of in focus to allow a bino to focus with a 1.7x gpc (or even the 1.25x) in place.

@Apprentice for low power, no i don't use a gpc. For eg, looking at the double cluster. I get about 40x mag with the 24mm

[Apprentice]

9 minutes ago, Space Hopper said:

Yes, agreed.

A 2" nose is a must, and ideally a Baader Clicklock to hold it securely.

 

So @Franklin and @Space Hopper if I get this correctly, the optmial setup would include the following products:

1. This prism:

 https://www.astroshop.eu/diagonal-prisms/baader-zenith-prism-t-2-90d-32mm-prism/p,10810

2. This GPC

https://www.astroshop.eu/accessories/baader-maxbright-1-1-70-glasspath-corrector/p,8663

3. This clicllock (should it be 2"?):

https://www.astroshop.eu/reduction-rings-adaptors/baader-2-clicklock-sc-clamp/p,14687

 

4. This nosepiece:

https://www.astroshop.eu/other-adaptors/baader-2-safety-kerf-nosepiece/p,59843

 

 

Edit:

The GPC would be optional for low power, but desireable for high mags?

Edited March 5, 2023 by Apprentice