TS 102 F7 + Baader Maxbright II

[Space Hopper]

9 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Is this possible because the Max 2 has a wider clear aperture than the more budget bino's? I think the clear aperture on mine is only 21mm and my wide field eyepiece showed vignetting. 

Yes, thats correct. The Max 2 i think is about 26mm clear aperture so it will work optimally with rich field 1.25" eyepieces.

[Apprentice]

37 minutes ago, Franklin said:

FPL-53 gives better control of CA than FPL-51, in my experience at least.

So coming from beginner scopes such as the achro 80mm f11.3 and basic 5" newt, I am not going to be dissapointed if I proceed with the cheaper FPL-51 version?

[Space Hopper]

@Apprentice

1. ✅

2. Ensure you order the 1.7x gpc for the Max 2 (rather than the old Max 1) I believe its the same one as the Mk 5 bino uses : it screws into the back of the viewer rather than the diagonal.

Also to confuse you further, the 1.7gpc is actually closer to 1.5x in reality. Don't worry too much about that though.

3. The Clicklock needs to thread onto the end of the focuser drawtube, whatever size that may be. The one you link to is an SCT fit. If you order one just specify your scope and they'll get you the correct fit.

4  ✅ The new Baader nosepiece is ideal, if rather pricey and a little short in length. 

 

 

[Franklin]

19 minutes ago, Apprentice said:

the optmial setup would include the following products:

Yes, but the Clicklock will only take up more in focus, better with a low profile option. (and the Clicklock link you posted is the SCT version which you definitely do not want)

Something like this below, but try with the stock visual back on your scope first.

[Franklin]

3 minutes ago, Apprentice said:

I am not going to be dissapointed if I proceed with the cheaper FPL-51 version?

I'd get the 53, the Starfield is within budget?

[Space Hopper]

2 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Yes, but the Clicklock will only take up more in focus, better with a low profile option

 

Good point.

I didn't know they had an ultra short version.

 

[Apprentice]

12 minutes ago, Franklin said:

I'd get the 53, the Starfield is within budget?

Sad to say, I'm already stretching the budget, especially if I go for the full baader setup we are discussing which might be done in 2 parts. So ultrashort clamp for clicklock - check.

Starfield is only available through FLo, that includes some more expenses - the wretched customs, and I would go well over 1100EUR for the tube alone. It does look extremely appealing tho :/

I do feel that the fpl51 would knock my socks off in this setup by itself, but kind of painful to think that I might regret not getting the starfield or other fpl53 (ts has one too).. i am strictly visual though, and hopefully not too picky or sensitive to CA. But would expect the ed doublet fpl51 to be very good if not great.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Apprentice

[Space Hopper]

If you look at TS in Deutschland they have probably the same scope with a different name.

Probably better for you to shop in the Eurozone than here.

 

[Apprentice]

18 minutes ago, Space Hopper said:

@Apprentice

1. ✅

2. Ensure you order the 1.7x gpc for the Max 2 (rather than the old Max 1) I believe its the same one as the Mk 5 bino uses : it screws into the back of the viewer rather than the diagonal.

Also to confuse you further, the 1.7gpc is actually closer to 1.5x in reality. Don't worry too much about that though.

3. The Clicklock needs to thread onto the end of the focuser drawtube, whatever size that may be. The one you link to is an SCT fit. If you order one just specify your scope and they'll get you the correct fit.

4  ✅ The new Baader nosepiece is ideal, if rather pricey and a little short in length. 

 

 

Looks great here, over 400 quatloos for the diagonal bits alone 👍🔭

Thanks for breaking it down mate.

[Apprentice]

4 minutes ago, Space Hopper said:

If you look at TS in Deutschland they have probably the same scope with a different name.

Probably better for you to shop in the Eurozone than here.

 

Well to be honest, FLO customer service is so great that I bought most of my stuff from there. Cant say I found any in the eurozone that come close. But agreed, for a scope of around 1k, it might be easier and less hassle in case there is a need for a return. They have the photoline which seems identical to starfield for roughly 1100, which  is well over 50% more than I was looking to spend.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Apprentice

[Space Hopper]

Apologies if it seems i'm spending your € for you !! 😉

I'm good at that.

Over here we have quite a thriving second hand market. So you can save some money that way.

A lot of my eyepieces are used, and there are some bargains to be had if you shop around.

[Apprentice]

No worries, i am lurking on this forum for years and it's very amusing when we all kind of want to push just a little higher with our purchases 😂

I love the classifields, but unfortunately it's difficult to buy from UK, since the brexit thingy, not sure how that would work. And of course the second hand market is virtually non existent here..

 

Btw found one that could work fpl53 from astroshop and a grand might be possible to pull off:

https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/ts-optics-apochromatic-refractor-ap-102-714-photoline-ota/p,61222

 

Since its photoline i am guessing its the right one, but the description is empty for some reason..

 

 

[Franklin]

7 hours ago, Space Hopper said:

I didn't know they had an ultra short version.

It's not a clicklock though, just compression ring and three clamping screws, APM and TS make a similar product which has 60mm Vixen and 68mm Zeiss threads, I have them on my Vixens as I tried the full clicklock and found it took too much of the focus up. f/7.7 mine though so maybe the faster optics on the op's scope would make a difference?

[Franklin]

7 hours ago, Apprentice said:

I do feel that the fpl51 would knock my socks off in this setup by itself

You will see a big improvement with 51. I had a 51 scope similar to what you're looking at but at f/11. TS 102ED f/11 has the bino removable part as well, excellent planetary scope with very little CA. But the f/7 version is more manageable and a great all rounder.

[jock1958]

8 hours ago, Space Hopper said:

Yes, agreed.

A 2" nose is a must, and ideally a Baader Clicklock to hold it securely.

 

Initially I bought the Baader prism diagonal with the 1.25” nose piece and adjustable eyepiece holder and added the 2” nose piece and click lock later. The Baader system allows all sorts of options and is so easy to swap bits around, the design and function of the click lock is brilliant. 

[jock1958]

1 hour ago, Franklin said:

It's not a clicklock though, just compression ring and three clamping screws, APM and TS make a similar product which has 60mm Vixen and 68mm Zeiss threads, I have them on my Vixens as I tried the full clicklock and found it took too much of the focus up. f/7.7 mine though so maybe the faster optics on the op's scope would make a difference?

I have the ultra short clamp on my Tak FC-100DL which saves quite a bit of in focus, there’s another adapter which would have saved even more but current bino-viewing setup works fine with and without barlows or GPC’s. 

[Franklin]

5 hours ago, jock1958 said:

I have the ultra short clamp on my Tak FC-100DL

Doesn't the DL have a removable extension tube between the ota and focuser? My old DC did and was able to bino at native when removed from the path. edit. Actually, I'll take that back, it was the old FS78 that had the removable part, the DC just had extensions after the drawtube.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Franklin

[jock1958]

19 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Doesn't the DL have a removable extension tube between the ota and focuser? My old DC did and was able to bino at native when removed from the path. edit. Actually, I'll take that back, it was the old FS78 that had the removable part, the DC just had extensions after the drawtube.

Unfortunately not, just double checked in case I was missing something 🤔

[bosun21]

8 hours ago, Franklin said:

It's not a clicklock though, just compression ring and three clamping screws, APM and TS make a similar product which has 60mm Vixen and 68mm Zeiss threads, I have them on my Vixens as I tried the full clicklock and found it took too much of the focus up. f/7.7 mine though so maybe the faster optics on the op's scope would make a difference?

The clicklock added to the scope doesn’t extend any backfocus as the Axil lock it replaces is the same width.

[Apprentice]

4 hours ago, bosun21 said:

The clicklock added to the scope doesn’t extend any backfocus as the Axil lock it replaces is the same width.

So effectively a baader clicklock on the focuser wouldn't affect the infocus?

 

20 hours ago, Franklin said:

I'd get the 53, the Starfield is within budget?

Well thanks to you and @Space Hopper for spending my €€€ for me 😁😂, i have decided to postpone the prism and accessories for 2 months and scope purchase for one month, but I have decided to go with the FPL53 with lanthanum. Frack it, we only live once and knowing myself I would regret not getting the better version soon enough. And tbh, having the TS 102ed Photoline for just under a grand on sale also helped with the decision. It ended up 250e more tham the fpl51 version.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Apprentice

[Franklin]

4 hours ago, bosun21 said:

The clicklock added to the scope doesn’t extend any backfocus as the Axil lock it replaces is the same width.

Baader clicklock adds 47mm to the lightpath and most stock visual backs are usually around 20mm so replacing your scopes stock visual back with a clicklock will eat up at least an inch of back focus. 

[Franklin]

30 minutes ago, Apprentice said:

Well thanks to you and @Space Hopper for spending my €€€ for me

You're welcome, I enjoy spending other peoples money as I have none left of my own😃.

Regards the clicklock. If you put binoviewers straight through ie. no diagonal, you will be able to reach focus without a barlow but you will need to be a yoga expert to view through them like this. The binoviewers have an optical path around 120mm, add to that the optical path of the diagonal, 2" about 110mm, 1.25" about 70mm and you will see that the equipment bino + diagonal has an optical length longer than the drawtube and this is why you cannot reach focus. The whole setup needs to be closer to the objective to reach focus. Using a barlow extends the light cone and makes the focus further away from the objective and this allows you to reach focus but at the expense of having barlowed eyepieces giving higher power. The old fashioned way was to hacksaw 100mm off the tube and refit the focuser but this is quite drastic and can lead to all sort of problems with collimation etc. So when trying to get binos to focus we are trying to get closer up the tube and a Baader clicklock, as brilliant as they are, have a depth of 47mm which is longer than a standard visual back. So adding a clicklock does not help when trying to reach focus, it only makes things worse, by about an inch.

I don't understand what @bosun21 is referring to, maybe he has a SCT with which a clicklock will work because it's the primary mirror and not the focuser drawtube that moves to reach focus.

[bosun21]

1 hour ago, Franklin said:

Baader clicklock adds 47mm to the lightpath and most stock visual backs are usually around 20mm so replacing your scopes stock visual back with a clicklock will eat up at least an inch of back focus. 

It doesn’t. I replaced the axil lock on my 102 Starfield and it was the same width as the M63 clicklock for 2.5” focusers.

[Franklin]

44 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

It doesn’t. I replaced the axil lock on my 102 Starfield and it was the same width as the M63 clicklock for 2.5” focusers.

I stand corrected. The M68 clicklock has an optical length of 31mm and looking at the Starfield, which is probably similar to the TS, there isn't much difference in length. Big difference on my Vixens though, see below.

 

[Apprentice]

So we have a go for the M68 clicklock on tge TS 102ed? :))