NEW Sky-Watcher AZ-GTiX Dual Saddle Alt-Az Astronomy Mount

[bosun21]

7 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

My Skymax 127 OTA is 3.2kg. It is the version with collimation screws; I believe the non-collimatible version is a little lighter.

All Skymax 127's have collimation screws. It's the 102 that has both types.

[Zermelo]

13 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

All Skymax 127's have collimation screws. It's the 102 that has both types.

Ah thanks, I misremembered from a previous thread
https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/402719-starter-equipment-advice/?do=findComment&comment=4315981

Also of interest:
https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/371786-mounting-skymax-127-mak-on-az-gti

 

[SuburbanMak]

I am finally using the AZGTiX as intended with the L-bracket in place allowing for Alt-Az alignment between the scopes. 
I hadn’t configured this way previously using a, quite heavy, 2” converted ST80 due to vibration concerns with the L-bracket. Instead I opted to rotate the side puck & mount the ST80 directly to reduce vibration, giving up the capability to align in azimuth. 
However the Tak FS60 upgrade reduces the weight,  and after one session this seems very solid indeed (helped by ditching the 70mm fibre pier supplied in favour of a heavier SW aluminium pier). 
It looks quite the contraption & I will order another ADM-Tak clamshell vixen bar come payday to enjoy the original Tak-ness of using the cast clamshell for the smaller scope too. 
The motors cope with this rig well and it’s fantastic to have finder, widefield and higher power instruments all precisely aligned.

Edited February 13 by SuburbanMak

[LondonNeil]

Interesting Mark.  I'd been thinking that the L bracket was less than ideal too but perhaps I'll try it that way first.   My set up will be a bit heavier though with the st120 (2" visual back) and mak127.  I'll see how it goes.  It is under the limits,  I've calculated 5.3kg for the 120 and errr, I forget...3.5kg for the mak with finder?  I'll try it out and report back.  

You've ditched the supplied plastic extension?  I bought the longer metal extension too so I'll follow and try with just that. 

Anyone got a fully loaded set up on the wedge?  I've got a bid in on one on ebay.   Although why I'd want both tubes on I'd imaging I....I don't know!

[LondonNeil]

Balls, something isn't right. 

I've just had a quick trial set up in the lounge and there's a problem.   The tripod I bought was this one (as recommended here)

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-star-adventurer/sky-watcher-stainless-steel-175-tripod-with-38-thread.html?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiArLyuBhA7EiwA-qo80Fw19iZW9ABoXKUE5qgdqlFyHlDjg5rXmkdpZhVMzv6GpHbRtQFoDhoCsfUQAvD_BwE

And the mount extension is the skywatcher az mount extension,  same as SuburbanMak's above.  They should screw together but they don't.  Which is weird.  Comparing the bolt on the short plastic mount extention that comes with the gtix mount, and the bolt on the tripod, they Are the same size and thread.  The small plastic extention screws on to the tripod fine ( so the tripod bolt thread seems fine/ undamaged) and the longer skywatcher mount extension screws on top of that fine (so the thread in the mount extension also seems fine).  However the skywatcher mount really doesn't want to screw onto the tripod!   I'll talk to Flo on Monday, see if they want me to send back or try a bit of brute force but hmm, tbh even though I know it should go together the feeling I get after half a turn really makes me think force will damage a thread.   Odd.

Oh well,  so I used the small plastic extention, attached that to the tripod,  attached the skywatcher extention on top, locked out the tripod legs with the spreader, all fine.  (Didn't bother extending the legs.... ought to go and check they extend and lock fine. )

I attached the gtix to the top of the mount extension,  fine. 

Attached the new dove tail into the gtix, fine.   I haven't yet pulled the tube rings off the alt az3 so couldn't do more than roughly hold the st120 in place,  looks OK, think it should fit.... tube should be positioned OK, this is with the st120 to the left of the mount. 

I attached the L dovetail in the right side of the gtix and the mak127 on to that with it a close to the mount as possible , at a height where the tube centre is aligned to the gtix alt axis (roughly) and with the tube close to balance but a bit nose heavy as I hadn't added an ep.  Focuser sits to the bottom,  easily reached,  all good.  Finder tube sits top right,  easily viewed,  all good. Not sure yet if I'll use the 8x50 finder or just the red dot on the st120 to save weight, but it fits fine and the gtix moves smoothly by hand at least. 

So I've still to attach the st120 and power up the gtix but it's looking like it all fits except for the extension tube directly on the tripod.... minor problem I hope. 

What also seems to work is packing this all away so that I can carry it.   I'm pushing the definition of 'grab and go' but I need to walk to the end of the street and a bit of greenery for a 'dark' sky and decent views, it's not far but I'd rather not have to load the car just for this so I want it carriable.   I've bought 2 stanley fatmax metal and plastic 670mm long toolboxes. These come in a shallower size and a deeper size, this is the shallower version

STANLEY Galvanised Toolbox Chest with Heavy Duty Metal Hinge, Portable Tote Tray for Tools and Small Parts, 26 Inch, 1-95-620 https://amzn.eu/d/7tSxALJ

The deeper version is identical but about 4 or 6 cm deeper. 

It looks like these will work brilliantly to hold everything.  I've yet to fit the rings to the st120 but currently it fits perfectly in the shallow tool box with the diagonal removed  (that i have placed in a soft bag and inside the dew shield). Ive got 5 eps in along side,  with space for more,  and that's with them in their big individual boxes (think Morpheus boxes).  I've bought some foam to cut and also several molle bags, I'm hoping to fit 3 or maybe 4 eps to each molle bag and then slip 2 or 3 molle bags in the Toolbox beside the tube. This will allow me to store the tube in the garage while easily fetching the eps inside the house by just grabbing out the molle bags. 

The deeper Toolbox takes the mak127 with astrozap dew shield wrapped around it,  the 8x50 needs to come off and then slips alongside it, as does the L dovetail bar. The gtix and extension sit at the far end of the box and currently the diagonal and a few eps sit in the removable tray but there's space around the gtix.  I want the gtix to also be easily grabbed and taken inside the house so I'll probably get another bag to fit inside the end of the Toolbox and take the mount,  and the eps in with the mak.  I need to do some measuring but something along these lines should work 

Portable Bento Bag - Insulated Lunch Bag with Handle & Shoulder Straps, Reusable Lunch Box Holder Bag Picnic School Handbag for Students Men Women Office Hiking Camping to Carry Various Bento Boxes https://amzn.eu/d/2nzLZEc

Ie, a cooler bag or picnic bag. 

Best of all,  the tool boxes have a V slot the length of the lid.  It's meant for trades to use to slip pipe or battens in and cut to length.  It works great to hold a tripod leg,  with a second leg the other side of the handle and the third just above so the tripod will sit neatly on top of a Toolbox and I can carry tripod and one box in one hand while I carry the other box in the other hand.   I'd not want to carry that lot far,  but hopefully it won't feel like a worlds strongest man farmer's walk just to get to the end of the street. 

All in all,  it looks very promising! Apart from the bolt problem.... and the clouds.   Still I can amuse myself with neat tesalation and foam cutting for a few more evenings!

[LondonNeil]

More bolt issues.  I'd bought the skywatcher dovetail bar, long (not the cheaper astro essentials)

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-mount-accessories/skywatcher-dovetail-mounting-plates.html

Because I assumed the screw threads would probably match those of other skywatcher stuff....ie the bolts holding my rings onto my az3 mount.   Seems not.  Very close, but not the right thread, so I need bolts. 

As far as I can determine (from searching flo for bolts) I want these 1/4" Whitworth unc bolts to bolt to the threaded holes in the dovetail

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dovetails-saddles-clamps/1-4-inch-socket-head-whitworth-bolts-x2-3-4-inch-long.html

Can anyone confirm that?  I mean other than Flo.... who don't put it in the description of the bar.  🫤

 

Also does anyone know the thread on the bottom of the bar to bolt the spreader on the tripod? Tripod linked in previous post. It Iooks about 10mm but being skywatcher I'm assuming it's unc again.  It's not 3/8 like the top end,  it's noticeably larger.  What I am thinking of doing is making a second EP tray from a cheap plastic tray. I was thinking I could attach it beneath the spreader/ existing ep tray by screwing some stud extender on the bottom of the bar,  and a bolt through the new tray and into the stud extender.  I just need to know what thread extender and bolt.  Maybe Flo will know.   

[LondonNeil]

Good response from Ian at FLO this morning. 

He confirmed the mount extension should screw straight on the mount (even supplied a photo of his own set up to show it).  He did say occasionally skywatcher use an M10 but it should be 3/8 unc. He also said they aren't the best at cutting threads.....

Well comparing to the plastic mount extention it is definitely 3/8", but inspecting in daylight the culprit is a w@#£y thread in the mount extension.  It's messy and tapers.  I'm prepared to run a tap down it if a mate has a 3/8 unc but otherwise it'll have to go back. Boo.

And the answers to my other questions....M6 for the dovetail bar and M12 for the bottom of the tripod spreader.

[Zermelo]

On 17/02/2024 at 01:44, LondonNeil said:

And the mount extension is the skywatcher az mount extension,  same as SuburbanMak's above.  They should screw together but they don't.  Which is weird.  Comparing the bolt on the short plastic mount extention that comes with the gtix mount, and the bolt on the tripod, they Are the same size and thread. 

I found this too, with the same tripod.  The short plastic pillar connected the tripod and mount easily, but when I substituted the longer alloy pillar, the threads seemed to bind.

[LondonNeil]

Yeah  comparing the thread in the small extension to the tripod,  they Are the same pitch and size (so both 3/8 unc as expected) but the tripod bolt looks like it's top end of tolerance and the small extension small end of tolerance.  Probably why it screws in to the longer extention fine as the hole I can see the thread is poorly tapped and tapered.   The tripod goes in about a turn before bottoming out that taper and won't budge any further.  

I told flo I'll tap it out if I can borrow a tap (still waiting for a reply from my neighbour) . The reply was that they have to tap them out from time to time. 

In other news it seems I may need to download the eq firmware.......I've just won a gti eq wedge..  only bidder on ebay so £28.50!  It is without the short dovetail and bolt though so add another £15 I guess. Still, a 20 quid saving.

 

[Zermelo]

1 minute ago, LondonNeil said:

The reply was that they have to tap them out from time to time. 

Thanks, that's worth knowing.
For now, if I need to separate the mount and tripod, I just detach the top part of the pillar by slackening off the three screws, so I don't need to disturb the 3/8" connection.

[LondonNeil]

Hmm, I just thought,  now I've got the eq wedge, that and the short extension is probably a high as the long extension..... maybe I should just send it back for a refund.   I suspect the short extension and wedge will not feel quite so firm but......

Any wedge users out there? What extension do you use?

[LondonNeil]

I just had a thought @SuburbanMak you went back to the L bracket dovetail so you could precisely align in azimuth..... I think a thin shim such as a piece of coke can or two,  between dovetail and scope at one end or other,  should give the azimuth adjustment and allow you to get both scopes bang on.... and do away with the ugly-if- not- too- flippy-flappy L bar.  I'm going to try that.. it'll save a bit of weight, remove a bit of flap and.... just look so much neater and remove one clamp from the system so that bit less chance of a 'oooops, I forgot to tighten the....nooooo!' Moment. 

[SuburbanMak]

12 hours ago, LondonNeil said:

I think a thin shim such as a piece of coke can or two,  between dovetail and scope at one end or other,  should give the azimuth adjustment and allow you to get both scopes bang on.... 

It's a good thought, given the light weight of what I have running on the L-bracket (FS60CB) however its all nice and stable, it does look a bit "Heath-Robinson" but works well and I suspect that your practical 'scope customisation skills are a little above mine    

Edited March 7 by SuburbanMak

[LondonNeil]

I may be CEng, MIMechE, but I reckon you can manage scissors and a screwdriver Mark.

[SCANS]

On 06/03/2024 at 19:30, LondonNeil said:

I just had a thought @SuburbanMak you went back to the L bracket dovetail so you could precisely align in azimuth..... I think a thin shim such as a piece of coke can or two,  between dovetail and scope at one end or other,  should give the azimuth adjustment and allow you to get both scopes bang on.... and do away with the ugly-if- not- too- flippy-flappy L bar.  I'm going to try that.. it'll save a bit of weight, remove a bit of flap and.... just look so much neater and remove one clamp from the system so that bit less chance of a 'oooops, I forgot to tighten the....nooooo!' Moment. 

Yes. I used a couple thin washers to shim the dovetail on my refractor and with a bit of trial and error, I aligned it with a 6SE. Pretty easy. The key is to clamp the dovetails near the same places with the mount each time, but with the difference in fields of view, there's a bit of tolerance before the line of sight of the 6SE gets too far out.

My only issue at the moment is that the collimation is off on the 6SE and I'm unable to get it back. Grr. My patience with SCTs is wearing thin!

[SCANS]

On 19/02/2024 at 15:23, LondonNeil said:

In other news it seems I may need to download the eq firmware.......I've just won a gti eq wedge..  only bidder on ebay so £28.50!  It is without the short dovetail and bolt though so add another £15 I guess. Still, a 20 quid saving.

 

So, how's it going with the wedge? Any worries about balance? I have a hard enough time dealing with normal alt-az alignment without the added complication of polar alignment so I'm curious to learn from your experience.

[LondonNeil]

Not got the wedge up and running yet. I have ordered a short dovetail to drill and thread to take m12 studding, ordered that studding,  various nuts and large washers and 5x0.5kg weights. All that will make a counterweight.  

I'm beginning to work out how to polar align but haven't sorted it yet. I'm assuming a compass and eyeball will get me ball park but not close enough. So do I then attach a polar scope to the gtix? Could I park the st120 such that I use that? But there's a problem.... in south London the glow of Central London can obscure the sky to the North such that polaris isn't visible.   Not always..... I've yet to learn... perhaps its only when the sky is hazy anyway.... but sometimes its not there.  If this is a problem then I'll need to learn how to align based on drift. 

Oh and I'm also thinking I should get a leveling base like this

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001687804960.html?spm=a2g0n.shopcart.0.0.131038dalODHT9&mp=1

I assume leveling the wedge is essential and relying on the tripod legs alone a bit awkward. 

I think the set up would be tripod with levelling base, level roughly with tripod legs and align one leg to North with compass and eyeball.  Short extension tube next,  then wedge set to 90-local latitude and eyeball aligned to tripod leg/North, use the levelling base to achieve perfect level. If polaris visible use some scope to align (see first question about do I need a polar scope or....)  then once aligned and locked, set up ota, counter weight and..... begin.   I think!

[SCANS]

I look forward to seeing how it all works out for you. Not sure about the whole polar alignment thing. Won't you need the centre axis of the mount aligned to north? But with the scopes offset on either side, I'm not sure how that will work. Also, you might want to shop around for that levelling base. It seems like the market is full of them. FLO sells one just like that, as does Amazon. I've been looking at them too and I think my best deal when I factor in exchange rate, taxes and shipping will be via Amazon.ca. Shipping with some places is almost as much as the device!

Good luck 👍

[LondonNeil]

I could be wrong as I'm newb, but the offset to the side doesn't matter.  What matters is getting one axis of the gtix (its vertical axis) absolutely aligned such that it is parallel to the earth's axis. That involves pointing North and tilting over with the wedge to account for attitude (unless you're at the pole).  The mount can then rotate about that axis at 360 degrees per day, counter the earth's rotation and keep it and any thing hanging off it (a scope) orientated the same to the sky..... so stars don't drift across the fov... no trails in photos,  yay.   The offset, the exact position matters not,  so long as the direction the axis points and scope points is unchanged.  If you think about it over a few hours the whole set up moves thousands of miles through space as the earth rotates but it doesn't matter.... the objects being viewed are so distant the movement through space over hours,  or days (you could image over serval nights) doesn't matter.  Hey you can even set up one night,  image,  pack away,  travel hundreds of miles across the country,  set up again somewhere else and image some more. That still works.  You can even stack images taken by different people,  different set ups  (eg astrobiscuit's bat) .... it still works.  The off set matters not,  just that everything is parallel,  everything is polar aligned. 

If that's wrong then I don't get this yet haha!

[Whistlin Bob]

I've been watching this thread for a little while now and thinking it could be the answer to a decent grab and go/travel rig for me. Finally pulled the trigger at PAS today. 

Very pleased as it's allowed me to mount my little Mak and 70mm frac side by side. My plan is to use the Frac as a super finder as well as a rich wide field instrument. For the Mak I've used a smaller L bracket then the one that came with the mount. Aligning then didn't seem too bad in the daytime- looking forward to when the perma cloud finally lifts!