Opinions on Mars polar cap brightening

[neil phillips]

More and more i kept wondering what that polar cap brightening is. I run a IR 685 capture at the end of the night. Conditions were worsening. But still notice how the IR is struggling to show the ice cap. But where that brightening is. Bang its really detecting it. Wonder what the IR is detecting here. Just thought it interesting. And anyone's opinion on this, I considered the brightening a artifact. But that IR suggests otherwise, as does all 6 captures looking virtually identical on it. Seems unlikely to be artifact at this stage. Wonder if others agree ?

Edited November 1, 2022 by neil phillips

[JeremyS]

Suggest you contact Richard McKim, Neil https://britastro.org/section_news_item/mars-opposition-blog-16-october-2022

 

[neil phillips]

48 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Suggest you contact Richard McKim, Neil https://britastro.org/section_news_item/mars-opposition-blog-16-october-2022

 

Seems like a good suggestion Jeremy.

Edited November 1, 2022 by neil phillips

[neil phillips]

Sent to Richard

if I had to go out on a limb. ( no pun intended )  i think it's likely a very bright and prominent cloud? 

[Kon]

Interesting observation. The IR clears any doubts. Let's see how it develops over the next few days/weeks.

[neil phillips]

1 minute ago, Kon said:

Interesting observation. The IR clears any doubts. Let's see how it develops over the next few days/weeks.

It does doesn't it. My thoughts too. it's a bright one that's for sure

[Kon]

1 minute ago, neil phillips said:

It does doesn't it. My thoughts too. it's a bright one that's for sure

The images from @geoflewisseem to have it as well but more subtle; less colour saturation than yours. In my eyes it makes that area uneven, as if it is popping upwards a bit.

[neil phillips]

8 minutes ago, Kon said:

The images from @geoflewisseem to have it as well but more subtle; less colour saturation than yours. In my eyes it makes that area uneven, as if it is popping upwards a bit.

Wonder what elevation these clouds get too? maybe it actually would look like its popping up? 

Edited November 1, 2022 by neil phillips

[Kon]

7 minutes ago, neil phillips said:

Wonder what elevation these clouds get too? maybe it actually would look like its popping up? 

I am glad it's not just me seeing that. Keep us posted if you hear anything back from the BAA.

 

[geoflewis]

17 minutes ago, Kon said:

The images from @geoflewisseem to have it as well but more subtle; less colour saturation than yours. In my eyes it makes that area uneven, as if it is popping upwards a bit.

Hi Kon, you maybe need to treat my Mars images of the polar region with a little caution, as I deliberately desaturate the blue in them as I'm not sure it's right. Here's one before I desaturated the polar region fyi.... Even then the bright region isn't showing as strongly as in @neil phillips images, so I'm not sure if this helps....🤷‍♂️

Neil's images are later in the night than mine, so maybe whatever it is rotated into view after I stopped imaging. There is a hint of brightening in my image in the correct location, if it is indeed just over the horizon.....

Edited November 1, 2022 by geoflewis

[neil phillips]

3 minutes ago, Kon said:

I am glad it's not just me seeing that. Keep us posted if you hear anything back from the BAA.

 

 

1 minute ago, geoflewis said:

Hi Kon, you maybe need to treat my Mars images of the polar region with a little caution, as I deliberately desaturate the blue in them as I'm not sure it's right. Here's one before I desaturated the polar region fyi.... Even then the bright region isn't showing as strongly as in @neil phillips images, so I'm not sure if this helps....🤷‍♂️

Also, a time difference Geof as can be seen by the more prominent volcano? what time was this? do you have any later? so we can rule out, it is rotating into view somewhat later 

[geoflewis]

4 minutes ago, neil phillips said:

Also, a time difference Geof as can be seen by the more prominent volcano? what time was this? do you have any later? so we can rule out, it is rotating into view somewhat later 

You were too quick for me Neil 😉. I added a further note on my post to make the same point, but sorry no, that was the last image from my session, so inconclusive. However, your images do support the notion that it was a real feature rotating into view, with just a tiny hint of it in my image as a bright pimple on the polar limb.

[neil phillips]

2 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

You were too quick for me Neil 😉. I added a further note on my post to make the same point, but sorry no, that was the last image from my session, so inconclusive. However, your images do support the notion that it was a real feature rotating into view, with just a tiny hint of it in my image as a bright pimple on the polar limb.

It appears that way doesn't it.  I can't see that IR capture showing a artifact surely ?  Lets See what Richard says from the BAA. My best bet is it's a very prominent and particularly bright cloud. 

[Magnum]

Nice images Neil, when you say recent brightening , how recent do you mean? I just looked at an IR image I took on the 6th but the whole pole looks dark in that one.

Lee

[neil phillips]

2 hours ago, Magnum said:

Nice images Neil, when you say recent brightening , how recent do you mean? I just looked at an IR image I took on the 6th but the whole pole looks dark in that one.

Lee

Hi Lee TBH. I am actually not sure. First i noticed it was when i imaged these sequences here. And it stood out like a sore thumb. My first thoughts were it was a artifact. But that soon changed when it consistently appeared the same in every capture. Even though i was trying different exposures and frame rates. And then on the IR image it again stood out right in that region. I am presently talking to Richard Mckim from the Mars section of the BAA. Will update more possibly later today or tomorrow. But suffice to say it may not be a cloud. But the actual Polar cap itself brightening during spring. Just clarifying that with Richard as we speak. But it certainly surprised me how bright that region is. All very interesting. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by neil phillips

[neil phillips]

Ok clearly out of my depth. On Martian dynamics. Will need to read up on this, to even begin to understand the clearly complex nature of the Martian hood and Cap. Richard Clearly knows Hes stuff. In part here was Richards Response

Dear Neil

 

I am of the opinion that in white light the hood covers the pole at present. But it is thinning and we can maybe begin to catch some sign or glimpses of the ground cap, or at least terrain near its boundary. In infrared the hood is never bright, but it is still present, and may be opaque at that wavelength. So what we see in infrared may be dull cloud rather than dull ground. But your slight brightening very near the pole is interesting. The value of Ls is around 322 at present, which is too low to see the ground cap for sure. We need to be beyond 340 for that. By 360 no doubt it will be seen well, and bright, but the clearance by hood does vary a bit from year to year, depending I think upon how much dust may have been deposited in the polar region as fallout. Have a read of my 2007 report for more, and indeed for further speculation.

 

 

 

[Kokatha man also!]

...I'm baaaaack!  Hi Neil, dropped in to see if I could log in again after a couple of years...needed to reset my password however!  The North Polar Hood & attendant other clouds is what you see in your image - nothing more.

Nice image btw! 👍

[neil phillips]

8 minutes ago, Kokatha man also! said:

...I'm baaaaack!  Hi Neil, dropped in to see if I could log in again after a couple of years...needed to reset my password however!  The North Polar Hood & attendant other clouds is what you see in your image - nothing more.

Nice image btw! 👍

Your expertise was missing around here. Good to see you back. Cheers re comments