NINA, framing issues

[Likwid]

3 minutes ago, jjosefsen said:

I think this is a procedural mistake somewhere, but without seeing what you do it is really hard to guide you. But I haven't heard of anyone with the same issue like this.

Could you take some step by step screenshots or even better a video?

What are your pointing tolerance settings?

https://nighttime-imaging.eu/docs/develop/site/tabs/options/platesolving/#pointing-tolerance

I should be able to do that. I won't have another clear night until this weekend so I won't be able to do it until then.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

As this thread goes on you are likely to get so many suggestions it may be a bit of overload.
There has been some suggestions made maybe try to get a clear night try some of them and come back with an update.
I think to eliminate possibility of star trailing or out of round stars causing an issue make sure all that works as we think it should, 

Firstly on a single frame centre of target image, then try same after moving the framing to one side.

• Slew to target
• Settle (2 secs)
• ensure it starts tracking
• check if guiding - I am not sure if NINA does or it is an option and really for this should not matter so long as it is tracking.
• take image
• plate solve
• if not in tolerance, determine the errors, reslew and run through sequence again

Confirm all that works correctly and examine the 10 second images, are there no star trailing and reasonably round stars.
That at least eliminates the fundamentals.

Steve

[Likwid]

5 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

That could be significant, there is a settle time somewhere in NINA that should at least be a couple of seconds but the fact it works with a single frame and not when you try to offset the framing in the framing wizard is very odd.

I do not think the altitude will cause an issue I have had mine set wrong many times, although I am only at 180M anyway and many times it was set at zero.

I wonder is it just the angle of rotation that is causing it to fail, maybe the rotation direction needs inverting (just a way out thought) but I l know when I fitted my auto rotator and it was wrong it just never worked, it kept tryung to rotate and centre but eventually gave up. I know you are manually rotating camera but I wonder if when setting to 2 frames whilst the angle has not been solved can cause an issue, 
Maybe try selecting a single frame in middle of image and slew till it is centred (but not rotated) then determine the rotation angle and rotate the camera till the anlge is correct, or in acceptable limits, and then change the framing or select two frame mosaic and try again.

Steve

This same thing happens whether I use 1 frame or multiple. If I just type NGC 6992 into Sky Atlas, set as Simple Sequence and Plate Solve from there, it centers it perfectly every time. If I go into Frame Assistant and change anything about the framing, it puts the target on the edge of the frame and cuts part of it off. What I am seeing in Frame Assistant is not close to what NINA thinks is a successful Plate Solve. This makes me think there is something wrong with the Frame Assistant and not my hardware or drivers. I will try to get screenshots or video this weekend showing what I am seeing. It is hard to explain via text. I was trying to see if I could find my plate solve images from last night on Astrometry but I couldn't find them.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Do you have a guide camera ?

[Craig a]

sorry but are you saying you go straight to setting  a simple sequence then plate solve? Have you tried going straight to framing assist first getting the frame as you want it then plate solve then set as sequence? 
pardon my confusion 

[newbie alert]

37 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

I am not sure if it is me misunderstanding things here but even without guiding and even some slight PA error 10 seconds should not give significant trailing after 10 seconds --- Should it, am I seeing this all wrong ?
NINA should be enabling tracking (if not guiding) and that should be sufficient, if its not tracking then it would never work.

Steve
 

I'm in complete agreement... Op needs to fix that issue first

[Likwid]

Ok, I found my submissions on Astrometry.net from last night. This is the successful Plate Solve image for NGC 6992, along with a screenshot of what I had in Framing Assistant. Where I have NGC 6992 in Framing Assistant is far from where it ended up in the "Successful" plate solve. Also, since Astrometry marked the image correctly, it knows exactly what it is looking at. All the noise aside, there are perfectly round stars in the image. I should say that the screenshot from NINA is not from last night, I put in the approximate rotation that NINA determined from last night to show as close as I could to what I was framing it as last night.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Likwid
Adding more information about the screenshot

[Likwid]

29 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

I'm in complete agreement... Op needs to fix that issue first

Normally I would agree as well, but this is only happening when I use the Framing Assistant. Directly after the issue I had last night, I cleared out Sky Atlas, typed NGC 6992 back in it, hit Add Target to Sequence, plate solved and it was centered in the frame. When I don't use Framing Assistant at all, everything works great and my targets are centered. When I use Framing Assistant, everything is misaligned.

[Likwid]

39 minutes ago, Craig a said:

sorry but are you saying you go straight to setting  a simple sequence then plate solve? Have you tried going straight to framing assist first getting the frame as you want it then plate solve then set as sequence? 
pardon my confusion 

Yup! When I go straight to setting a Simple Sequence from Sky Atlas everything is great and everything Plate Solves and centers perfectly. If I set it for Framing Assist and move the target in the Frame, then Slew and Center, everything is misaligned.

[newbie alert]

1 minute ago, Likwid said:

Normally I would agree as well, but this is only happening when I use the Framing Assistant. Directly after the issue I had last night, I cleared out Sky Atlas, typed NGC 6992 back in it, hit Add Target to Sequence, plate solved and it was centered in the frame. When I don't use Framing Assistant at all, everything works great and my targets are centered. When I use Framing Assistant, everything is misaligned.

Sounds weird... Just to check the mount is tracking shoot a 30 sec, 60 sec sub.. any mount should be able to handle that.. if your subs are trailed then fix that issue first

Have you tried a different framing assistant, see if that is any different?  What are you using for a platesolver?

[Craig a]

24 minutes ago, Likwid said:

Ok, I found my submissions on Astrometry.net from last night. This is the successful Plate Solve image for NGC 6992, along with a screenshot of what I had in Framing Assistant. Where I have NGC 6992 in Framing Assistant is far from where it ended up in the "Successful" plate solve. Also, since Astrometry marked the image correctly, it knows exactly what it is looking at. All the noise aside, there are perfectly round stars in the image. I should say that the screenshot from NINA is not from last night, I put in the approximate rotation that NINA determined from last night to show as close as I could to what I was framing it as last night.

That’s weird because that plate solved image looks like it’s in the middle of the two panels if you get what I mean

[Craig a]

2 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

Sounds weird... Just to check the mount is tracking shoot a 30 sec, 60 sec sub.. any mount should be able to handle that.. if your subs are trailed then fix that issue first

Have you tried a different framing assistant, see if that is any different?  What are you using for a platesolver?

His stars are nice and round in that plate solved image so trailing can be taken out the equation I think

[Likwid]

9 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

Sounds weird... Just to check the mount is tracking shoot a 30 sec, 60 sec sub.. any mount should be able to handle that.. if your subs are trailed then fix that issue first

Have you tried a different framing assistant, see if that is any different?  What are you using for a platesolver?

I know it is, I shot 18 x 5 minute subs on that same rig directly after my issue last night I have tried HIPS 2, NASA, SkyServer, and ESO I think. I am using Astrometry.net for Plate Solving.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Likwid
Additional information

[Likwid]

4 minutes ago, Craig a said:

That’s weird because that plate solved image looks like it’s in the middle of the two panels if you get what I mean

Correct, but according to Frame Assistant, I placed NGC 6992 essentially in the middle of Frame 1, and NGC 6960 in the bottom of Frame 2 for the mosaic to show both objects. In the Plate Solve image, NGC 6992 is cut off half way in the top right side of the image.

[Likwid]

One thing I just noticed in both the online tutorial, as well as the couple YouTube videos that I have watched, is that they all say I have to hit the "Recenter Image" button once I have my target framed correctly. If you look at my screenshot, I do not have that button in my Framing Assistant. I also just updated my software and it is still missing. I wonder if it is not sending the coordinates correctly because it isn't "centered".

[teoria_del_big_bang]

1 hour ago, Likwid said:

Ok, I found my submissions on Astrometry.net from last night. This is the successful Plate Solve image for NGC 6992, along with a screenshot of what I had in Framing Assistant. Where I have NGC 6992 in Framing Assistant is far from where it ended up in the "Successful" plate solve. Also, since Astrometry marked the image correctly, it knows exactly what it is looking at. All the noise aside, there are perfectly round stars in the image. I should say that the screenshot from NINA is not from last night, I put in the approximate rotation that NINA determined from last night to show as close as I could to what I was framing it as last night.

So after this was set in framing wizard what did you do next, send to sequencer or hit slew and recentre ?
And how and when did you rotate the camera to get it to be correct rotation to the framing wizard ?

Edited October 18, 2022 by teoria_del_big_bang

[Likwid]

1 minute ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

So after this was set in framing wizard what did you do next, send to sequencer or hit slew and recentre ?

I tried both and they both do the same thing. When I send to Sequencer, it brings up Frame 1 and Frame 2 with different coordinates. When I Plate Solve through Imaging on either Frame 1 or Frame 2, it puts the target off the frame, but then says Plate Solving was successful. When I Slew and Center in Frame Assistant with either frame selected, it puts the target off the frame but finishes "successfully" still. Whatever is happening is specific to the Framing Assistant. When I bypass it and just go from Sky Atlas to Sequencer, it Plate Solves and centers the target perfectly. I am really at a loss. The only thing I see different that I am doing from tutorials or the actual manual, is not hitting "Recenter Image" at the end because that target does not exist on my version of NINA.

[Craig a]

It doesn’t exist on my Nina either ive got the latest version too, but have you clicked load image once you have moved your frame about on the framing assist 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Craig a

[Likwid]

2 minutes ago, Craig a said:

It doesn’t exist on my Nina either ive got the latest version too, but have you clicked load image once you have moved your frame about on the framing assist 

Yup! And it will center the frame for me in the window. I tried it with and without clicking "Load Image" after putting the frame where I want it with the same outcome. When I saw the thing about "Recenter Image" I figured that clicking Load Image would have the same effect.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Mmmm must admit I thought you had to click recentre image after moving the frame but can't remember for sure now.

12 minutes ago, Likwid said:

When I Plate Solve through Imaging on either Frame 1 or Frame 2,

So is that by adding slew and centre to the sequencer ?

Steve

[Craig a]

Starting to baffle me now this is, I’ve not done any imaging for a while and I’m abit peed off that re center has disappeared 

[Likwid]

3 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Mmmm must admit I thought you had to click recentre image after moving the frame but can't remember for sure now.

So is that by adding slew and centre to the sequencer ?

Steve

If you click on "Imaging" on the left, on the top row of icons, there is an option for Plate Solve. My normal workflow before I was using Framing Assistant was to add the target to the sequence, and then go into Imaging and Plate Solve so I could see the window better. I just got this screenshot from my imaging PC so you could see what I am talking about. It Plate Solves whatever you have selected in Sequencer.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

4 minutes ago, Craig a said:

Starting to baffle me now this is, I’ve not done any imaging for a while and I’m abit peed off that re center has disappeared 

Me neither so probably have an update to do, what version are you on ?

Steve

[Likwid]

Just now, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Me neither so probably have an update to do, what version are you on ?

Steve

2.0 HF2, it just recently came out.

[Craig a]

1 minute ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Me neither so probably have an update to do, what version are you on ?

Steve

Version 2.0 HF2 just updated it 10 mins ago