Solar observing noob - Herschel wedge tips and tricks

[badhex]

Hello all, 

I'm reasonably inexperienced with solar observing, I have previously used the premade baader solar film front filter for my ZS73. I have now purchased a 2" APM Herschel wedge for use primarily with my TS102 F7 ED doublet, so looking for some tips and tricks to get the best out it. I'm fairly comfortable with general safety measures (keeping things capped, removing finders etc.) and esp. regarding the front filters like BSSF but aware that this is a different beast so I'm being extra careful. 

I've had a quick go with it already after familiarising myself with operation etc. and so far it's very impressive! It comes with an ND3 and adjustable polarising filter preinstalled so I do have the basics in place already. 

One thing that I found (and I've previously found this with Baader solar film too) is that I still find the views quite bright even with the polarising filter dialled in to the highest setting and after a while observing I get eye fatigue. I understand that additional filters may help with that as well as potentially helping bring out more detail? I can't really purchase anything else at the moment so the Baader Continuu filter is off the table for now, but I do have an ND4 which helps a bit, plus UHC, Oiii and CLS filters and have read sporadic reports of these being used. Will have a play around but any tips on that would be great. 

Next is magnification; I have read that one might sensibly halve expected maximum magnification, so 25x per inch or basically the same as your aperture in mm. Is this a sensible expectation? Are there any rules of thumb or tips to improve views that differ from night-time astronomy? 

Any other tips also gratefully received! 

[Carbon Brush]

I use a Lacerta wedge, Brewster angle, with a 102 scope. So a different configuration.
It is a bit bright 'out of the box' but can be easily dimmed using a low cost polarising filter.

The scope is a Bresser AR102. A doublet but not the best in the world for chromatic aberration. You get what you pay for.
I use a Baader continuum filter so I only get the green part of the spectrum. This has two actions.
The image is dimmed to a reasonable visual level, and by viewing only part of the spectrum, I avoid CA.

As I have only put this setup together this summer, I'm still learning how to obtain the best views.
But very pleased with the experience.

If a lightweight and inexpensive scope about 80mm came my way, I would be tempted to give it a try.
Mainly to lessen the burden on my Solarquest mount. Though if I fitted a better tripod it would mprove the situation.

For visual use, magnification has generally been limited by air turbulence rather than the optics.

HTH, David.

 

[wookie1965]

I have the same wedge !.25 version I have used both my UHC and Oiii with it to great results. Most of the time I use a Zoom on the sun but I have gone higher when trying to bring out more of the granular features.

Here a couple of photos I got.

[badhex]

2 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

I use a Lacerta wedge, Brewster angle, with a 102 scope. So a different configuration.
It is a bit bright 'out of the box' but can be easily dimmed using a low cost polarising filter.

The scope is a Bresser AR102. A doublet but not the best in the world for chromatic aberration. You get what you pay for.
I use a Baader continuum filter so I only get the green part of the spectrum. This has two actions.
The image is dimmed to a reasonable visual level, and by viewing only part of the spectrum, I avoid CA.

As I have only put this setup together this summer, I'm still learning how to obtain the best views.
But very pleased with the experience.

If a lightweight and inexpensive scope about 80mm came my way, I would be tempted to give it a try.
Mainly to lessen the burden on my Solarquest mount. Though if I fitted a better tripod it would mprove the situation.

For visual use, magnification has generally been limited by air turbulence rather than the optics.

HTH, David.

 

Thanks David. I had heard that the Solar Continuum filter was primarily aimed at achros more than ED / APOs so I'm not totally clear on how much benefit it would bring me over one of the other filters I already have. I had a quick session earlier today but more experimentation is needed I think.

[badhex]

1 hour ago, wookie1965 said:

I have the same wedge !.25 version I have used both my UHC and Oiii with it to great results. Most of the time I use a Zoom on the sun but I have gone higher when trying to bring out more of the granular features.

Here a couple of photos I got.

Thanks Paul, great to hear someone using the same wedge and great pictures. What sort of magnification are you using for those? And what difference do you generally find with the UHC vs Oiii? 

[wookie1965]

I was using a Barlowed 10mm giving x200  and the filters take a lot of glare off but the view is greenish more so with the oiii if I remember correctly 

[Moonshane]

I have not observed for a while but dusted off my Equinox 120 and Baader wedge today. The Baader SC filter is built into this and I have used it on other scopes previously with front end and herschel wedges and its definitely worth getting one for brightness control and also optical quality.

In terms of magnification  I use binoviewers so have to add a corrector which at 2.6x makes focal length 2340mm. Today, in intermittent good seeing, I have used 25mm (93x), 20mm (117x) and 15mm (156×). All gave good results but you needed more patience at 156x. I personally preferred the 93x.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Shane

[Stu]

Good stuff @badhex, glad you picked up the wedge. In a good 4” scope (which yours is) you should get some excellent views when the seeing is good.

I use a Continuum filter permanently fitted in my Wedge, and I do find it enhances faculae and granulation, whilst also knocking the brightness back a bit. I have used an OIII filter in lieu of a Continuum in the past and it did a pretty good job, so is well worth a go.

I always use binoviewers these days as I find they keep my floaters under control at high power, and make for more relaxed viewing aswell as giving better views. Something to consider for future if you don’t have them already.

Many people say stick to low power for solar, but for me you miss a lot of the action if you do that. I use up to around x200 (never quite sure exactly due to GPCs, barlows, BVs etc) and when the seeing is excellent the views can be quite startling. My eyes would likely struggle if not binoviewing, but it is certainly worth experimenting above x100.

I got up fairly early this morning and was observing by 8.30am, which was about the earliest the Sun had cleared the neighbouring houses. The seeing is often steadier first thing, before the heat and convection currents have built up so it’s worth making the effort. Evening can also be better than during the heat of the day as things cool off.

I found x200 useable and beneficial when I started off, but within about an hour, maybe less, I backed off to x100 as it had got too wobbly, similar to Shane’s findings. Still nice views, but the granulation cells really start to open up at higher power which I do enjoy.

Keep observing as much as you can to catch those times of excellent seeing; it is well worth it 👍

[Moonshane]

I obviously need to get up earlier Stu! 🤣

[badhex]

On 13/08/2022 at 21:51, Stu said:

Good stuff @badhex, glad you picked up the wedge. In a good 4” scope (which yours is) you should get some excellent views when the seeing is good.

I use a Continuum filter permanently fitted in my Wedge, and I do find it enhances faculae and granulation, whilst also knocking the brightness back a bit. I have used an OIII filter in lieu of a Continuum in the past and it did a pretty good job, so is well worth a go.

I always use binoviewers these days as I find they keep my floaters under control at high power, and make for more relaxed viewing aswell as giving better views. Something to consider for future if you don’t have them already.

Many people say stick to low power for solar, but for me you miss a lot of the action if you do that. I use up to around x200 (never quite sure exactly due to GPCs, barlows, BVs etc) and when the seeing is excellent the views can be quite startling. My eyes would likely struggle if not binoviewing, but it is certainly worth experimenting above x100.

I got up fairly early this morning and was observing by 8.30am, which was about the earliest the Sun had cleared the neighbouring houses. The seeing is often steadier first thing, before the heat and convection currents have built up so it’s worth making the effort. Evening can also be better than during the heat of the day as things cool off.

I found x200 useable and beneficial when I started off, but within about an hour, maybe less, I backed off to x100 as it had got too wobbly, similar to Shane’s findings. Still nice views, but the granulation cells really start to open up at higher power which I do enjoy.

Keep observing as much as you can to catch those times of excellent seeing; it is well worth it 👍

Hi @Stu, I skimmed this ready for reading in detail and replying later but realised that I never did, so thanks for the detailed reply!

Good news about the Oiii working as a temporary standin for the Solar Continuum - I will get one at some point, possibly not until after Christmas as I'm rapidly approaching self induced unemployment (although, one might argue it's the perfect time if I'm not at work in the day? 😂) 

Might sound odd as I'm not sure I've read others mention it but one thing I've noticed before with my (Astronomik) UHC and Oiii is occasional reflections or glare from the surface of the filter on the eyepiece side when there is local LP. How reflective is the solar continuum? Whereabouts do you put this in the light path? I also can't remember which wedge you have?

I'll probably take the wedge with me on holiday for use in my ZS73, so I'll get a bit of practice playing around with different combinations which I assume should work equally well in my TS102. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by badhex

[Victor Boesen]

56 minutes ago, badhex said:

Might sound odd as I'm not sure I've read others mention it but one thing I've noticed before with my (Astronomik) UHC and Oiii is occasional reflections or glare from the surface of the filter on the eyepiece side when there is local LP. How reflective is the solar continuum? Whereabouts do you put this in the light path? I also can't remember which wedge you have?

Stu uses the Baader Coolwedge If you look at the documentation for the coolwedge you will see that Baader recommend the continuum filter placed before the ND3.0 filter to avoid glare. I do the same with my Lacerta 2" wedge like in the image below Like you, I also experienced glare if I placed the continuum (or OIII for that matter) after the ND filter.

I see you have already been given great advice so I can't add much more. I will say that I find magnification varies greatly depending on the seeing conditions. I've used 200x like Stu but some days I'm limited to 100x due to seeing. However, at this magnification there's still a lot to see like faculae, granulation, sun spots and etc.

Victor

[badhex]

3 hours ago, Victor Boesen said:

Stu uses the Baader Coolwedge If you look at the documentation for the coolwedge you will see that Baader recommend the continuum filter placed before the ND3.0 filter to avoid glare. I do the same with my Lacerta 2" wedge like in the image below Like you, I also experienced glare if I placed the continuum (or OIII for that matter) after the ND filter.

I see you have already been given great advice so I can't add much more. I will say that I find magnification varies greatly depending on the seeing conditions. I've used 200x like Stu but some days I'm limited to 100x due to seeing. However, at this magnification there's still a lot to see like faculae, granulation, sun spots and etc.

Victor

Cheers Victor, very helpful! I'm not totally sure how to remove the ND3 as it's internal to my wedge but I'll have a look, I'm sure it must be possible.

[badhex]

So, it looks like I can unscrew the polarising filter from the rotating mechanism and add another filter there, after the ND3 and before the polarising filter, which I think should cut down on glare - BUT my astronomik UHC / Oiii don't stack 😭

So for now I will have to put up with the glare or buy a Baader Solar Continuum 😑

[Victor Boesen]

5 minutes ago, badhex said:

So for now I will have to put up with the glare or buy a Baader Solar Continuum 😑

Otherwise you could also consider a simple wratten 58 green filter? But if you're like me, the continuum is inevitable 

I started with an OIII filter, then got a 1.25" continuum filter to see what the fuzz was about. I discovered how impractical unscrewing/screwing the filter off/on different eyepieces was so eventually got the 2" and sold the 1.25". So what I at first said to myself I'd never be willing to pay for a solar filter I eventually ended up with buying anyways.

Give yourself some time to consider whether it's worth it