Would I be able to have HEQ5 motors work on EQ5?

[Lotinsh]

I have an EQ5 mount and I found someone here selling HEQ5 dual axis guide motors for a cheap price, but I was wondering, is it possible to somehow have them work on EQ5? There seems to also be the EQ5 dual axis motors selling here, tho someone already seems interested in them, so I'm probably not going to get them, hence I'm wondering if I could use some other mount motors selling here.

[Cornelius Varley]

I suspect not. The two mounts have different gear ratios, so the motor speeds would be different.

[Cornelius Varley]

Even if we assume that the motors were conceivably compatible and you could manufacture some mounting plates for the motors, there is no where to mount the HEQ5's  MCB or powerboard (both internally mounted) on the EQ5

[malc-c]

9 hours ago, Lotinsh said:

I have an EQ5 mount and I found someone here selling HEQ5 dual axis guide motors for a cheap price, but I was wondering, is it possible to somehow have them work on EQ5? There seems to also be the EQ5 dual axis motors selling here, tho someone already seems interested in them, so I'm probably not going to get them, hence I'm wondering if I could use some other mount motors selling here.

Nope, mainly for the reasons already mentioned.  Physical size is different, step count is different, gearing is different, and the firmware in the control board is written for the specs of the HEQ5, so this would need overwriting with the EQ5 code, which whilst older boards use the same PIC microcontroller, the boards use different driver chips so the EQ5 code will most likely not work with the HEQ5 motor board.

Edited June 21, 2022 by malc-c

[Cosmic Geoff]

The proper EQ5 kits (including handset controller) are sometimes available used, and not expensive.  I assume budget is an issue here.

There are actually several variants of motorizing available to you:

RA only

RA + Dec

RA + Dec (enhanced) to facilitate guiding for imaging.

D.I.Y. GoTo (various).  Cheaper than the real thing but involves a lot of skilled work.

Skywatcher EQ5 Synscan GoTo upgrade kit. Recommended for imaging and easy to fit. Makes your mount equal to the commercial Synscan mount.  Synscan is capable of impressive aiming accuracy but needs some skill and effort to get the best out of it.

[Lotinsh]

Thanks for all the answers, unfortunate I cannot use other motors.

As Cosmic Geoff said, the budget indeed is the issue, I have 100 Eur to spend so there's that. I already have a single axis motor but want to get into guiding, though I need the second motor and seems like I can't buy it anywhere separately.

Not that familiar with DIY, would it be possible to somehow for the cheap DIY the second motor and the controller for guiding?

[Alien 13]

7 minutes ago, Lotinsh said:

Thanks for all the answers, unfortunate I cannot use other motors.

As Cosmic Geoff said, the budget indeed is the issue, I have 100 Eur to spend so there's that. I already have a single axis motor but want to get into guiding, though I need the second motor and seems like I can't buy it anywhere separately.

Not that familiar with DIY, would it be possible to somehow for the cheap DIY the second motor and the controller for guiding?

You can guide with a single axis motor (lots of people do it with the SA) but it limits you although it should help with periodic error which is the biggest downside of the EQ3-5 mounts when using anything more than 300mm f/l.

Alan

[Lotinsh]

That's interesting. I thought you'd need both motors. Well in that case I'm going to at least try that, thanks!

[Alien 13]

18 minutes ago, Lotinsh said:

That's interesting. I thought you'd need both motors. Well in that case I'm going to at least try that, thanks!

Worth looking through some of the "star adventurer" threads, the EQ5 single axis motor has no external ports though so it would need to be a DIY job but have seen examples on this site.

Alan

Edited June 21, 2022 by Alien 13

[malc-c]

1 hour ago, Lotinsh said:

That's interesting. I thought you'd need both motors. Well in that case I'm going to at least try that, thanks!

Can you be more specific on what motor set you have on your EQ5.  The enhanced dual motor kit for this mount is around £140 and has an ST4 port which can be used for a direct connection between the guild camera and mount.  This is not that far off your budget (assuming you already have a guide camera with an ST4 port) and would at least allow you to dip your toe into the dark science of imaging without the need to try and perform surgery on a standard single (or dual) axis motor unit.

 

[ONIKKINEN]

If you polar align very accurately and shoot at higher declination targets with short subs you can get away with not guiding in dec at all.

Have a look at targets at around ursa major and such, plenty of them are far enough north that dec drift can be trivialised.

[Lotinsh]

@malc-c I'm not exactly sure but I think I have this motor kit: 

https://tavcso.hu/en/product/RAeq5

Also I don't have a guide camera, is it necessary? Can I use a webcam instead?

[malc-c]

@Lotinsh Right, that's the basic motor drive.  This one is the controller with an ST4 guide port. 

Quote

would it be possible to somehow for the cheap DIY the second motor and the controller for guiding?

You mentioned you were looking at getting into guiding and that was why you were asking if the HEQ5 kit would work.

I'm not entirely sure  what it is you are hoping to achieve.   The drive on the RA axis that you have should ne more than adequate to track a target for visual use provided you have the scope polar aligned.  Guiding is associated with taking images through the scope.  Are you looking at doing some astrophotography?  What exactly are you wanting to so because without knowing this we  could all be wasting time recommending equipment that you either don't need or is beyond your budget.

Guiding falls into two categories,  manual or automatic.  Manual system typically use a special eyepiece that has a cross-hair in it and you make the small adjustments to keep a target star under the cross-hair.  Thus having dual axis drives helps as you can compensate for any error in polar alignment.  Automatic guiding works on the same principle, only its software running on a computer in conjunction with a camera that makes the corrections.

So tell us exactly what you want to do and then we can best advise you what you need.  But if you have no budget to speak of then it's going to be a non starter 

Edited June 21, 2022 by malc-c

[Lotinsh]

I'm getting into astrophotography, want to step up the game and for not too expensive thought that this was the first upgrade to make. I have captured some objects and have learned a lot trough the process, though I definitely know that there's a LOT to learn for me. It's either this or a new telescope, maybe modifying my camera too but I want to still use it for regular photography, so not sure about that yet.

I'm using a 130p Heritage telescope (Terrible for astrophotography, bought it for visual use only at first), a single axis EQ5 mount and a Nikon D3300 camera (not modified).

Here are some photos I have captured so far:

https://failiem.lv/u/ragctb8vu

 

[malc-c]

Given the equipment listed you should be very proud of the results.  Your polar alignment must have been very precise if those images were taken unguided.  It might be useful to post up how you got them, ie exposure, ISO settings etc and how many lights / darks etc were taken and what your post processing is so others with basic equipment can be encouraged to get into imaging

[Lotinsh]

For deep space I mostly use either iso 800 or 1600 with 45 second images and some 30 second.

As for darks I didn't use many, not sure if I should or not, since I don't have a cooled camera the temperature changes a lot, not sure if I should take darks.

I usually take around 15 flats and around 30 bias frames.

For the M51 I have 120 30 second frames, 150 45 second frames, 15 flats and 30 bias for 45 sec. For 30 sec frames I have 16 flats and 28 bias frames.

 

For editing I use only photoshop, I do everything there. And for starless image version for more editing in photoshop I use StarNet to get rid of stars.

Stacking in DeepSpaceStacker.

[Vulisha]

Think about setting up OnStep, it requires a bit of work but you can get marvelous results! 

[Lotinsh]

@Vulisha What is OnStep? Never heard of something like that

[Cosmic Geoff]

Onstep is a DIY GoTo syetem. Search this forum for 'Onstep' and you should find various threads.

You should decide though whether your hobby is astrophotography or building stuff. 🙄

[Vulisha]

OnStep is a computerized goto system, usually for stepper motor equipped mounts though any step/dir interface motor driver (including servo) should work. 

There's a telescope hand controller App for Android (free in the Google Play Store,) an option to control through a website (Smart Web Server,) and a dedicated physical hand controller (Smart Hand Controller.) Or, on a PC there's ASCOM and INDI drivers for control. These options allow you to setup and control OnStep using a wide range of software including my Sky Planetarium, Cartes du Ciel, Stellarium, SkySafari, KStars, PHD2, etc

So in short, buy a kit with board and stepper drivers. Buy Steppers, recommended from wiki are 400 step from omc-steppers, belts and gears and power supply. Also 3d printed motor mounts would be good. 

Then you need to do a hardest part, configure onstep per your mount specifications, and upload firmware using something like Arduino IDE, and you are set 

https://onstep.groups.io/g/main/wiki

My full setup costed me  ~100€ but before all this chip and similar crysis. 

[malc-c]

2 hours ago, Lotinsh said:

For deep space I mostly use either iso 800 or 1600 with 45 second images and some 30 second.

As for darks I didn't use many, not sure if I should or not, since I don't have a cooled camera the temperature changes a lot, not sure if I should take darks.

I usually take around 15 flats and around 30 bias frames.

For the M51 I have 120 30 second frames, 150 45 second frames, 15 flats and 30 bias for 45 sec. For 30 sec frames I have 16 flats and 28 bias frames.

 

For editing I use only photoshop, I do everything there. And for starless image version for more editing in photoshop I use StarNet to get rid of stars.

Stacking in DeepSpaceStacker.

I'm no imaging guru by a long shot, but I know darks taken after an imaging session helps with the result.  But I am very impressed with the results you are getting taking lots and lots of short exposures.

Personally if you are still set on using guiding to get longer exposures then I would save up a little more and get the enhanced set of drive motors with the ST4 port.  Then look at guide scope options.  One of the cheapest ways is to use a SW finder scope and camera.  The 9 x 50 scope and guide camera combos are around £200 (ZWO 120MM Mini camera included).    You can then use a laptop with PHD2 to handle the guiding, with the camera relaying control commands via the ST4 port.  This really is probably the cheapest option to get started.

The onestep system is fine if you are into electronics and don't mind going down the DIY route.  Its worth investigating, and may give you more for your money but it's not going to be plug and play.

[Lotinsh]

Sounds interesting, maybe I'll try the onstep, does it track well? Also would I need to buy both motors or I can keep the one I have? It seems like it could be a nice DIY project to do. Just need to understand even what it does and what I'll need etc.

Thanks for the suggestion about darks, next time I'll photograph, I'll try taking them too, next time will be in early or late august as only then I get astro dark nights.

I should have a guide scope, someone was giving one away, I just had to pay for shipping, it should arrive in a week.

Though I don't have a camera for it, that too I will need to somehow get, I've seen someone use a webcam, would that be good enough?

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Lotinsh

[malc-c]

As I mentioned, web cameras have been used, but they tend to be more high end than the cheaper ones.  MS Lifecam has been used and is easy to adapt to fit a standard focuser. Phillips SPC 900 webcams work well, but are now so old they are not easy to come by.

As for the onestep, I believe it requires stepper motors of a particular type - all is explained in that link 

The problem you have is that you are wanting to take your imaging up to the next level, but lack the funds to do so.... Imaging isn't cheap when done seriously.

[Cosmic Geoff]

The make-a-finder-into-a-guidescope works best with a specific model of finder and an astro camera with the standard thread, plus an adapter ring that costs 30 to 40 Euros. Or with finder/guidescopes (sold as such) which accept 1.25" eyepieces. Otherwise you may have to to make adaptors up from stock material.

[Lotinsh]

Yeah imaging indeed isn't cheap, hence I'm looking at the used market. I know I don't have enough funds to step up the game yet, but my plan is once a while make an upgrade once I can. For now my budget is <100 Eur, not much. Especially with the inflation.

Are there perhaps other upgrades I could do to improve exposure time or something that helps imaging for my budget?