Celestron 18mm 0.965" Kellner info

[badhex]

Hello all, 

I recently picked up this eyepiece in excellent condition for eventual use in my vintage Charles Frank 6" reflector when I one day have access to it. 

Although I have a little of the "standard" research knowledge on various 0.965" EPs, which ones tended to be good etc., I've been unable to find much on *this specific* EP. The Celestrons usually talked about are the VT style (which this is not). It appears to be a double-circle-v which is likely to be Vixen associated, and some reports suggest were good but not *as* good as the single circle-vs. 

Anyone out there with a bit more info, such as what era, which scope it would have been supplied with etc, and any experience of first hand use? (I'm waiting for the clouds to clear so I can at least use it in a modern scope).

Thanks! 

Edited May 23, 2022 by badhex

[NGC 1502]

I’ve no specific info on that exact eyepiece, but as you’ve had no other replies….

In decades past, Vixen and Celestron were closely involved in manufacturing astronomy kit.  Some otherwise identical refractors were made, the only difference was the paint job and badge.  I have an old Vixen catalogue that includes Celestron kit.

The “Japan” and “double circle v” is the same as on my early model Vixen 22mm LVW eyepiece.

Some of those old 0.96” eyepieces were excellent.

You’ve already done some research.  Have you tried Cloudy Nights, the US based forum?  There’s sections on there that deal with vintage/classic astronomy kit.  You could sign up to CN, and post questions.

Your Charles Frank scope is a classic, solidly made. Charles Frank of Glasgow was very well known and respected in the astronomy world.  Enjoy your classic kit👍

Ed.

[badhex]

25 minutes ago, NGC 1502 said:

I’ve no specific info on that exact eyepiece, but as you’ve had no other replies….

In decades past, Vixen and Celestron were closely involved in manufacturing astronomy kit.  Some otherwise identical refractors were made, the only difference was the paint job and badge.  I have an old Vixen catalogue that includes Celestron kit.

The “Japan” and “double circle v” is the same as on my early model Vixen 22mm LVW eyepiece.

Some of those old 0.96” eyepieces were excellent.

You’ve already done some research.  Have you tried Cloudy Nights, the US based forum?  There’s sections on there that deal with vintage/classic astronomy kit.  You could sign up to CN, and post questions.

Your Charles Frank scope is a classic, solidly made. Charles Frank of Glasgow was very well known and respected in the astronomy world.  Enjoy your classic kit👍

Ed.

Thanks for the info Ed! Yes, I've done a fair bit of research both here and CN but been unable to find anything really on that specific EP sadly. I had thought about trying to find a catalogue perhaps in PDF form but being unclear on the approximate era it might be a bit of a needle in a haystack. What year is your catalogue? Maybe I can find a PDF version of that and work from there. 

Conversely, I was able to find out quite a lot about the Swift EPs that came with my CF scope, and have since picked up another to try and complete the set. I've also spent quite a long time researching the CF scope (which I got from my Grandad, who in turn was given it by his local astronomy club) and managed to track down some decent info. Sadly it is currently in storage in the UK so I won't have access to it for some time, but looking forward to getting back to using it when I can!

[Franklin]

Celestron achromatic refractors from the 80s-90s were made by Vixen and were basically re-badged SP80m and SP102m and by the mid-90s the SP mounts were upgraded to the GP but the scopes remained the same. All of these Vixen/Celestron scopes from that era were supplied with a focuser that took .965 eyepieces. You could and still can, get a 36.4mm-1.25" adaptor that swaps straight in for using standard eyepieces with these scopes. Unlike today, where ota are available without a mount, back in the day these things were sold as kits. Scope, mount and accessories and they were usually supplied with a .965 prism diagonal and a low, a medium and a high power eyepiece. Here's a pic of the accessories supplied with a Vixen SP102m from the very early 90s. K20mm, HM12.5mm, OR5mm plus .965 prism diagonal. Looking at the design of the Celestron name on your K18mm it looks like it may be a bit later but not by much, so its got to be around 25years old I would imagine.

 

 

 

[badhex]

9 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Celestron achromatic refractors from the 80s-90s were made by Vixen and were basically re-badged SP80m and SP102m and by the mid-90s the SP mounts were upgraded to the GP but the scopes remained the same. All of these Vixen/Celestron scopes from that era were supplied with a focuser that took .965 eyepieces. You could and still can, get a 36.4mm-1.25" adaptor that swaps straight in for using standard eyepieces with these scopes. Unlike today, where ota are available without a mount, back in the day these things were sold as kits. Scope, mount and accessories and they were usually supplied with a .965 prism diagonal and a low, a medium and a high power eyepiece. Here's a pic of the accessories supplied with a Vixen SP102m from the very early 90s. K20mm, HM12.5mm, OR5mm plus .965 prism diagonal. Looking at the design of the Celestron name on your K18mm it looks like it may be a bit later but not by much, so its got to be around 25years old I would imagine.

 

 

 

Thanks @Franklin- this makes sense and fits with another lead I have - the below photos from a random 5 year old auction of a set of Celestron / Vixen EPs featuring a 30mm Kellner which is clearly the same era/case Design. I can also see your 20mm and 5mm in the last picture too. 

The seller mentions that the majority of EPs in the set are from the '50s/'60s but that the 30mm Kellner is "later". He also suggests that the double-circle-v denotes, at least for the early EPs, that they were made in a different factory and to a higher standard, info he gleaned from a Japanese amateur astronomer who worked for Vixen in the '50s.

[Franklin]

Your K18mm eyepiece is in this collection sold on Astromart 3 years ago. It said that they were originally supplied with a C90 package.

 

[Franklin]

5 minutes ago, badhex said:

The seller mentions that the majority of EPs in the set are from the '50s/'60s but that the 30mm Kellner is "later".

The Vixen .965 eyepieces are definitely from the 80s, I know that because I bought them back then and the Celestron K30mm (same design as your K18mm) is from the 90s. Celestron products prior to the 90s had a different logo font. Not sure about the K40mm, that looks older, probably 70s. I don't think any of them are from as early as the seller believed.

[badhex]

7 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Your K18mm eyepiece is in this collection sold on Astromart 3 years ago. It said that they were originally supplied with a C90 package.

 

Good sleuthing! I must have missed this, thanks! Another search to add to the list 🙂

[Franklin]

5 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Not sure about the K40mm, that looks older, probably 70s. I don't think any of them are from as early as the seller believed.

Just found this from Astromart 3 years ago. K40mm is from 1980 and made by Carton Optical-Japan.

So your K18mm is definitely later.

 

[Franklin]

Either way your K18mm was made by Vixen or Carton so should be of excellent optical quality.

[Franklin]

I stand corrected, here is your eyepiece offered as standard kit supplied with a C90 from the 1980s.

 

[badhex]

1 hour ago, Franklin said:

The Vixen .965 eyepieces are definitely from the 80s, I know that because I bought them back then and the Celestron K30mm (same design as your K18mm) is from the 90s. Celestron products prior to the 90s had a different logo font. Not sure about the K40mm, that looks older, probably 70s. I don't think any of them are from as early as the seller believed.

Ah, apologies I think I misread the description - he suggests that only the K40mm is from that era.

https://astromart.com/auctions/astromart-auctions/eyepieces/show/rare-set-of-vixen-double-circle-v-eyepieces-12204

[badhex]

1 hour ago, Franklin said:

I stand corrected, here is your eyepiece offered as standard kit supplied with a C90 from the 1980s.

 

Amazing! Great find. The hive mind of SGL never ceases to amaze! 💫

[badhex]

Thanks so much for all the help! Now off to dig into Celestron C90 reviews 🙂

[Franklin]

4 hours ago, badhex said:

Ah, apologies I think I misread the description - he suggests that only the K40mm is from that era.

Thanks for the link. The K40mm is from 1980 but the sellers comments on the origin of the single and double circle V trademark are very interesting. I was of the impression that single circle V optics were coated and double circle V optics were multicoated ie. both sides of each lens. Maybe just another myth though, who knows?

[badhex]

1 hour ago, Franklin said:

Thanks for the link. The K40mm is from 1980 but the sellers comments on the origin of the single and double circle V trademark are very interesting. I was of the impression that single circle V optics were coated and double circle V optics were multicoated ie. both sides of each lens. Maybe just another myth though, who knows?

I guess we'll never really know for sure unless we can dkrectly speak to manufacturers or staff, or if there's any written records. Still, I find all this stuff quite fascinating. For example, I had found out that Charles Frank used a lot of ex-military, and I later discovered after some digging that the finderscope for my particular Charles Frank was a WW2 Aldis illuminated sighting scope from an AA gun, originally with a 24v connection. There's no way I'd have found that by any other way than research, and joining the dots of several auctions, historical records and catalogues. 

[Franklin]

1 hour ago, badhex said:

finderscope for my particular Charles Frank was a WW2 Aldis illuminated sighting scope from an AA gun

Wow, make sure it's not still loaded!

[Louis D]

8 hours ago, Franklin said:

I was of the impression that single circle V optics were coated and double circle V optics were multicoated ie. both sides of each lens.

Coated generally refers to singly coated, usually with MgF2 (magnesium fluoride).  You can recognize it because the only reflection color is violet/purple.

Multicoated generally refers to two or more coating layers of differing compositions.  You can recognize them because you'll see a range of reflected colors such as red, green, yellow, and blue, depending on the angle of incidence.

Often, only non-cemented surfaces are coated.  Higher end optics will sometimes coat even the cemented surfaces.

[NGC 1502]

15 hours ago, badhex said:What year is your catalogue? Maybe I can find a PDF version of that and work from there. 

Hi Joe, give me 24 hours, I’ll dig around and see what I can find, and get back to you…..

[badhex]

8 hours ago, Louis D said:

Coated generally refers to singly coated, usually with MgF2 (magnesium fluoride).  You can recognize it because the only reflection color is violet/purple.

Multicoated generally refers to two or more coating layers of differing compositions.  You can recognize them because you'll see a range of reflected colors such as red, green, yellow, and blue, depending on the angle of incidence.

Often, only non-cemented surfaces are coated.  Higher end optics will sometimes coat even the cemented surfaces.

Reasonably sure that the EP in question is only a single coating, which I would tend to expect from older EPs. I normally do the 'reflection roll' test - i.e. move it around under a light and observe the different reflections - when a get a new one but will double check it again. 

[badhex]

7 hours ago, NGC 1502 said:

Hi Joe, give me 24 hours, I’ll dig around and see what I can find, and get back to you…..

Thanks - and no worries, don't put yourself to any trouble. 

[Don Pensack]

On 29/05/2022 at 02:06, Franklin said:

Just found this from Astromart 3 years ago. K40mm is from 1980 and made by Carton Optical-Japan.

So your K18mm is definitely later.

 

A 40mm eyepiece is useful in a long f/ratio scope, to achieve a larger exit pupil and a brighter image--always a good possibility for long f/ratio Maksutovs.

But in 0.965", the apparent field will be 32-33°, so that is one narrow eyepiece.

Still, likely the true field maximum limit for the scope.

A lot of people who owned those scopes added hybrid 0.965--1.25" diagonals to be able to use 1.25" eyepieces.

But with a complete set of Japanese-made 0.965" eyepieces, few would bother.

[NGC 1502]

17 hours ago, NGC 1502 said:

Hi Joe, give me 24 hours, I’ll dig around and see what I can find, and get back to you…..

Hi again Joe.  Here’s what I found, don’t know if it’s of any use but here goes.

My Vixen catalogue is not dated, but looking at the list of camera adapters, best guess early 1990s, front cover below. Included is a page with Celestron Schmidt-Cassegrain scopes, pic below. Eyepieces page, pic below.

Also the front page of “Frank’s book of the telescope” plus inside another pic, is that Charles Frank himself, anyone on here know?

If you’d like further pics from the Vixen/Celestron catalogue or the Charles Frank book, just ask.

Unashamed “nostalgia trip” 😁

Cheers, Ed.

 

[F15Rules]

That takes me back...

Charles Frank were a respected Glasgow based maker of reflectors..they also imported and distributed a Japanese range of Porro prism binoculars under the name "Frank Nipole" binoculars..they were actually quite decent quality..

Thanks for sharing, Ed👍

Dave

[badhex]

5 hours ago, NGC 1502 said:

Hi again Joe.  Here’s what I found, don’t know if it’s of any use but here goes.

My Vixen catalogue is not dated, but looking at the list of camera adapters, best guess early 1990s, front cover below. Included is a page with Celestron Schmidt-Cassegrain scopes, pic below. Eyepieces page, pic below.

Also the front page of “Frank’s book of the telescope” plus inside another pic, is that Charles Frank himself, anyone on here know?

If you’d like further pics from the Vixen/Celestron catalogue or the Charles Frank book, just ask.

Unashamed “nostalgia trip” 😁

Cheers, Ed.

 

Excellent, thanks for digging those out Ed! No mention of the K18mm so maybe they only sold it with the C90 or it's earlier/later than the catalogue. I also have that Frank's book - I got it when researching my CF about ten years ago! Great book.