AAARRRGGGHHH!!! Polar Aligning!!!

[Astrosurf]

I've had it up to here with setting up my HEQ5 mount! I have read two instructions, both different, and even though Astrobaby's instructions are clear, when I get down to it I get it wrong and everything gets mis-aligned. I just don't understand what I'm doing!

This is Astrobaby's and should be fine, but I guess I'm too thick!

http://www.adur-astronomical.com/HEQ5/HEQ5-1.htm

I've aligned the reticule on a very distant object during the day. I did it twice and the second time there was hardly any error so I guess I did quite a good job.

So, before I try to do observing I set the scales. On Skywatcher's instructions it's a bit different and ends up with the pointers in different places so I stick with Astrobaby's.

I turn Polaris to the bottom & do everything suggested. Then the RA axis is still turned over at an angle at the end. Surely I should then, with the scales locked, turn it back up to a neutral position so I can then mount the OTA. But won't that throw everything out?

I've tried setting up on Polaris (OK, there's light pollution in that direction and it's not easy to see) and turn the RA so that it matches my time and date. It's so hard to set it all up so that Polaris is in the little circle in the reticule. But I tried to get it as close as poss.

I guess all this has to be when the mount is on and running or you can't see the reticule!!

When all that's done, I leave the scope at an add angle (it doesn't say turn back into the neutral, balanced position) and do the 3-star align on the handset. Now it all goes completely silly and at one point the OTA ended up pointing DOWN! I ended up in a strop and in tears and packed up!

The first time I set up the scope, I simply pointed it roughly at Polaris, did the 3-star align, fiddled a bit and it worked.

I'm at the point of selling the damned thing and giving up!

It's not an easy thing for me to understand. Does anyone have a VERY detailed set of instructions that say when you can turn the scope back to neutral and if it needs to be done electronically or manually also why I'm doing what I'm doing. That or get help at the SGL4 star party, but I want to do it NOW! We’re having such clear evenings!

I've now tried several times and tonight I've given up any thought of going out with the scope and am just wallowing my sorrows in a glass or few of wine!

If anyone wants to ring me, please pm me.

PLEEEEEEZE HELP!

Alexxx

[John]

.... The first time I set up the scope, I simply pointed it roughly at Polaris, did the 3-star align, fiddled a bit and it worked.....

For visual use I found that was close enough when I had an EQ5 and (briefly) an HEQ5 - but I was not using the GOTO functions, just using it as a driven mount and correcting any drift with the hand set as I observed.

If you want to image then I guess the polar alignment does need to be more accurate.

John

[Astro_Baby]

I turn Polaris to the bottom & do everything suggested. Then the RA axis is still turned over at an angle at the end. Surely I should then, with the scales locked, turn it back up to a neutral position so I can then mount the OTA. But won't that throw everything out?

Its all abouty the mount not the scope. Once the mount is aligned thats it. It doesnt m,atter what you do afterwards as regards the RA/DEC shifting about.

I'm a bit whacked out tonite BUT if you want you could give me a call on the telephone tomoz and I'll try and talk you through it.

[Astrosurf]

Hiya Astrobaby! You're very kind, and I feel a fool. I often have to be shown something or get drawn a diagram before I can understand something! I'm always drawing myself diagrams!

I've pm'd you. I hope to speak to you tomorrow and hope you're not too tired. I'm shattered too with work going nuts!

Alexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[jgs001]

Alex, I'm sure Astro Baby will sort you out. I ran through her tutorial setting my HEQ5 up and it's worked a treat. I'm PA'ed and good for at least 2 minutes exposures (when I haven't messed something up) in under 5 minutes. Once PA'ed I just unlock the clutches and swing the tubes where I want them (which isn't always where the object I'm looking for is but that's another story)

I think with the SynScan (from what I read somewhere) you need to park the scopes first, then run the alignment routine, as that gives a known base point to start from (something like that anyway).

[Astrosurf]

Thanks John. When I first used the scope properly I pointed it roughly at Polaris visible in the centre of my polar scope, then did a three-star align and it worked fine, only not well enough for astro-imaging! I'll do that again tonight, sky willing, just to enjoy!

Astrobaby's great, it's just me being thick!

Alexxx

[RobertCL]

I feel your pain too! I recently bought an HEQ5 and I've used about 3 times now. The instructions that come with it for polar alignment are terrible! (and I'm sure they are wrong from reading other stuff on the web).

Even after polar aligning I've never managed to get a 3-star-align to complete - it always says "alignment failed".

I did manage to get it tracking pretty well once, but I think that was more luck than and kind of skill!

As with all these things, I think you just need to keep trying!

[adamsp123]

I have an EQ6 and as i understand it once you have polar alignment the main scope must be pointing towards polaris before starting the alignment. This is the "home" position on EQ mounts. (The vixen mount - home is in the West ie scope horizontal pointing west)

rgds Pete

[steppenwolf]

have an EQ6 and as i understand it once you have polar alignment the main scope must be pointing towards polaris before starting the alignment.

Actually, this is not the case. Remember that Polaris revolves around the the NCP so starting the session from the Park position (which is a necessity) means that you must NOT be pointing at Polaris as this star is NEVER at the NCP - it may be close but it still moves round the sky like every other object. The Park position must be with the weights down and the telescope pointing up as far as it will go. Only from this start point will the system work corectly, and it does work beautifully if you get the start point correct but therein lies the problem! 'Weights down telescope up' is a rather subjective position as there are no reference points to check against so you must squint at the counterbalance bar from just to the right and just to the left to get that right and it is not easy to do.

However, the mount assumes it to be an absolute position and makes its first slew on the basis that the mount was accurately parked at the start. Many mounts work on this basis and it is a reasonable method of controlling the mount but the accuracy of that first slew can be greatly improved by NOT making adjustments using the hand controller. Instead, I issue the slew command and when the mount stops moving, I carefully unlock the clutches on the RA and DEC axes and manually push the mount around until the alignment star is in the centre of the field of view and then I clamp the clutches to lock everything in place. At the end of the session when I issue the ‘Park’ command, the mount will park to exactly the correct position all ready for the next session. This means that I always find my alignment star at least somewhere on my sensor thus greatly speeding up the set-up procedure.

[philsail1]

Hello "Alex,"

I have a CG5 "GoTo" mount. I've not really cracked using it accurately all of the time. Sometimes it seems to work 100% and at other times it won't locate stuff accurately.

I don't know about the HEQ5 "GoTo" set up procedure, but all EQ mounts need to be Polar aligned to start with. I don't have a Polar Scope on my CG5, but even when only roughly Polar Aligned, the mount seems to track well enough for simple "Afocal" astrophotography - and very well for just visual. The CG5 does have "Start" marks taped to the "RA" and "DEC" parts of the mount head. Aligning the marks gives a "start" position for the mount. (They were "out" by a few degrees, so I moved them and re-stuck them to the mount).

Does the HEQ5 "GoTo" have the starting position marks? If not, you could (after you have sussed out the problems your'e having at the moment) stick a couple of marks on the mount to guarantee the right starting position every time.

Also, are you making sure the mount is level on the ground?

Forgive me if I'm mentioning things you already know about.

I'm sure (especially with all the feedback you're getting) you will solve whatever is going adrift.

I'm waiting for the warm summer nights to really get to grips with my CG5 "GoTo," to ensure that I've got it right every time. Like your instructions for the Skywatcher, mine are a bit difficult to understand. (Well, if they are written by Chinese, that says it all!).

Best wishes for a speedy outcome!

philsail1

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

The simple way is to use the picture in the polar 'scope to set the RA angle for Polaris. Looking through the polar 'scope you should see a diagram of the Plough and the big W at the other side. Turn the RA until these are in the same sort of position as the real stars in the sky, then adjust the mount until Polaris is in the little circle at the edge of the big circle. Job done on alignment of the mount.

Next, before trying the 3 star align, put the mount back in the park position, which is as everybody says is weights down, 'scope up.

The electronics wizardry has no way of checking the start position, it just assumes that the 'scope is in the park position. If its not parked, the electronics gets well messed up and gets really annoying very quickly.

HTH

BTW I only ever do a one star align, its plenty close enough and I can't remember where all the other stars are.

Kaptain Klevtsov

[themos]

I'm learning the procedure for the EQ6 and I've decided I never have to look at any (up)setting circles and numbers on rings and all that gubbins. Just run Polarfinder (remember to give it the right time and your geographical position). Then I memorise the "clock hour" its position corresponds to. I go to the mount, hookup the power and the handpad, and take the polarscope covers off. I slew in DEC (90 degreees from the usual parked position) to open up the polarscope view. I slew in RA until the reticle looks like Polarfinder showed, with the little circle in the correct "clock hour". Then I turn the ALT and AZ mount controls until Polaris gets into that little circle. Slew back to parked (visual check), put polarscope covers on, job done. Assumes your reticle is centered properly on your RA axis, of course. I did that last night and checked polar alignment with the drift method using a webcam and 900mm focal length optics and Astrosnap software. After 400 seconds, Astrosnap claimed my PA error was a few arcseconds and fluctuating rapidly. I must have got it spot on.

[themos]

Oh, I meant to say, Steve's (steppenwolf) suggestion of correcting that first alignment slew by loosening clutches instead of stepping the motors sounds excellent and I can see the reasoning behind it.

[Roy Batty]

When PA'ing my HEQ5 I don't bother plugging in the handset at this point. By just plugging in the power supply and switching on will illuminate the polar alignment scope recticule and doesn't mess anything up with the electronics. When you're happy with the alignment as KK has described, just switch off the mount, return the DEC bar to facing down paralell to the leg marked "N" on your tripod and add your counterbalance wheights and OTA.

When adjusting the scope with wheights down scope up (all done with NO power on) I tend to align polaris up against one of the cross hair lines in the finder scope, but naturally this will not be in the centre as the scope is pointing to NCP and not polaris. Lastly tighten the clutches. All is now ready to plug in the hand set and power up the mount again.

Personally I tend to not start the scope from park when prompted as my set up is not on a permanent pier.

Hope this helps..

Keith

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

Personally I tend to not start the scope from park when prompted as my set up is not on a permanent pier.

Hope this helps..

Keith

Go on then you've got me interested, where do you start the 'scope from and why?

Kaptain Klevtsov

[Roy Batty]

Go on then you've got me interested, where do you start the 'scope from and why?

Kaptain Klevtsov

KK as you know when powering up the synscan handset you're prompted if you want to start from park? Y/N. I select N, I assume all this does with the electronics is to "re-zero" the encoders to the current position - so all subsequent goto's are taken from this "re-calibarted" mount position - i.e. wheights down, OTA pointing to NCP. approx.

If I had a permanent set up where everything was left untouched when returning to park and powering down at the end of a session is where I assumed that you would want to select YES when prompted to start from park when starting up the next time.

Hope you follow this reasoning?

Keith

[Astrosurf]

I feel your pain too! I recently bought an HEQ5 and I've used about 3 times now. The instructions that come with it for polar alignment are terrible! (and I'm sure they are wrong from reading other stuff on the web).

Even after polar aligning I've never managed to get a 3-star-align to complete - it always says "alignment failed".

I did manage to get it tracking pretty well once, but I think that was more luck than and kind of skill!

As with all these things, I think you just need to keep trying!

Do try Astrobaby's instructions - link is on my first post. Good luck!

[Astrosurf]

This is all great stuff! I'm not sure I understand everything, though I have quite a bit to be getting on with!

KK, yours sounds simple and I guess that sets up the mount at roughly the time you're viewing.

I thought I should put the scope back in park. It does seem logical now! I wasn't sure if after all the set-up jobbies that manually moving in RA and Dec would throw out the alignment, but from what I gather it's the mount position not the position of the OTA that's important. I guess if you knocked the tripod and moved the whole mount that would then throw it all out!

Thanks for all your help guys, I really appreciate it!

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