AZEQ6 OTA payload balance

[StarWomble]

Hi all, 

Hopefully getting my AZEQ6 back end of this week from tuning. A question I have is how are folks balancing their OTS payloads? my mount was 'sticky' before i sent it off with the clutch backed completely off and the only way I could balance was by 'guesstimating' its balance point (Meade 6000 115 with guidescope, RDF and imaging train etc) . its as if the mount was still tight... hopefully the mount will now have less stiction so I can achieve better balance, and hopefully be able to make it slightly east-heavy.

wondering what others experience with balancing this type of mount is? for me I guess its a case of how freely your kit is able to move so you can achieve a fine balance... and how loose it should be?

[Ouroboros]

Yep. My AZ-EQ6 has always been as stiff as anything. But then so was my EQ5. I just assume it’s a SkyWatcher thing. 

I use a sort of dynamic method. I balance by eye and then I push the telescope forward and back on each axis and adjust balance until it swings equally as much in both directions. 

I find that when the RA axis is rotated so the Dec axis lies horizontal,  the Dec axis swings more freely.  You get a similar effect in RA if you tilt the elevation down to zero, but it’s more fiddly so I don’t usually do it. 

[MikeP]

Mine is also quite stiff.  Tempted to strip it down and re-grease but lack confidence that it would ever work again.

Mike

[Ouroboros]

@StarWomble I’m very interested to hear how well the tune up has worked. Where did you get it done? 

[Ouroboros]

2 minutes ago, MikeP said:

Mine is also quite stiff.  Tempted to strip it down and re-grease but lack confidence that it would ever work again.

Mike

Same here.  But as long as my mount keeps tracking and guiding OK I won’t be stripping it down. Sometimes when I find guiding is a tad iffy in one axis or other I shift balance a bit until it works OK. 

[Ouroboros]

Does anyone know why Skywatcher mounts are so stiff?

I recently had a play with an iOptron mount and the way it rotes so easily with the clutches off is amazing. 

[MikeP]

2 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

I recently had a play with an iOptron mount and the way it rotes so easily with the clutches off is amazing. 

Same experience here with an iOptron last weekend.  As you say though, as long as the AZEQ6 tracks and guides OK, why mess with it.

Mike

[david_taurus83]

It's the thick grease they use. The AZEQ6 rotates on needle bearings so large surface area to rotate.

[barbulo]

Same for the EQ6-R Pro. 

I don't know if it is a Skywatcher thing or maybe temperature related. There were not many clear and warm nights with enough astro-darkness here in Germany last summer, so don't have enough facts.

Gears' grease density could be the reason though.

[ONIKKINEN]

42 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Does anyone know why Skywatcher mounts are so stiff?

I recently had a play with an iOptron mount and the way it rotes so easily with the clutches off is amazing. 

My EQM35 had very viscous and sticky lube in it, presumably to hide backlash and mechanical tolerances in the design. Hope they dont use the same stuff in the better mounts as it has no place in a precision instrument. I would recommend relubrication for everyone who is even a little bit DIY oriented.

[aknaggbaugh]

19 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

My EQM35 had very viscous and sticky lube in it, presumably to hide backlash and mechanical tolerances in the design. Hope they dont use the same stuff in the better mounts as it has no place in a precision instrument. I would recommend relubrication for everyone who is even a little bit DIY oriented.

Worm gears need much more viscous lube than wheel gears because the gear faces make sliding contact rather than rolling contact. It's very likely not a good idea to replace the OEM stuff with lightweight lube not intended for worm drives.

[Ouroboros]

That’s clear then.   

[ONIKKINEN]

2 hours ago, aknaggbaugh said:

Worm gears need much more viscous lube than wheel gears because the gear faces make sliding contact rather than rolling contact. It's very likely not a good idea to replace the OEM stuff with lightweight lube not intended for worm drives.

yes, but the other innards need good lubrication. Like in the pic (EQM35 DEC axis)

[StarWomble]

16 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

@StarWomble I’m very interested to hear how well the tune up has worked. Where did you get it done? 

Darkframe... I know... lots of comments on them here but I talked to Dave at length so decided to go for it. I'll report back on my experience  once I have the mount back - hopefully tomorrow !

Dave has 3 options on type of grease for the mount and I've opted for the middle weight as I have the WO 73 and a Meade 6000 115 so didn't want to go for the lightest weight grease for the OTA's as I intend on using more payload as time goes on.

[Stu]

On 11/11/2021 at 10:10, StarWomble said:

Darkframe... I know... lots of comments on them here but I talked to Dave at length so decided to go for it. I'll report back on my experience  once I have the mount back - hopefully tomorrow !

Dave has 3 options on type of grease for the mount and I've opted for the middle weight as I have the WO 73 and a Meade 6000 115 so didn't want to go for the lightest weight grease for the OTA's as I intend on using more payload as time goes on.

Have you had a chance to try the mount out yet? Probably not with the skies we are having!

[StarWomble]

No, not yet but I met up with Dave at the weekend when picking up my mount from him. One thing for certain is how passionate he is about what he does and such a lovely guy (and Sharon, his other half is lovely as well).

spent over an hour with Dave going over this and that and what he has done to the mount. I’m also testing his prototype ‘latitude lock’ which solves the rather large rocking issue on the latitude adjustment jack on the AZEQ6. Dave’s a real innovator with things like that. One immediate difference is the much reduced power consumption on slewing which will help conserve battery power out at remove sites. Slewing I now see around 1.6A. Dave also showed me the Hybrid ceramics that are now fitted as well as stainless bolts and screws throughout.
Very pleased with his work and only took 3 weeks start-finish including 25 hours on test / run in.

Need a decent first light opportunity but been overcast since I picked up on Saturday so may take a few nights wait.

yes, it wasn’t cheap but without people like Dave at Darkframe we would have to DIY (and have the time/skills and tools) or just put up with the questionable QC that skywatcher have… and TBH, tuning a mount to the tolerances needed IS a Specialist job IMO. I wouldn’t want to try to service my Omega Automatic watch and try to get it to COSC specs so I take the same approach with my mount. I get precious little time for this hobby as it is so messing with the mount for hours and finding I’ve made it  o better or even worse just costs me wasted nights..

Anyway, that’s just my 10p worth and based on my own experience. 

And before anyone asks - I have NO affiliation to Darkframe other than being a paying customer

Edited November 15, 2021 by StarWomble