Polar alignment options

[Pitch Black Skies]

What are my options for a more accurate polar alignment? I'm just using the polar scope on my EQ5 pro. Attached to the mount is a 5" reflector and a DSLR attached to that.

Please note, I don't have a guidescope and guidecam.

Is there a way to polar align through my OTA and DSLR using a laptop and a software program?

 

[ONIKKINEN]

I was going to say sharpcap pro as its excellent, but im pretty sure sharpcap doesn't work with DSLRs. Still there are options left.

Have a look at this video from Cuiv of using the NINA polar alignment plugin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI1tzoBhkH8

NINA works with at least Canon and Nikon DSLRs and i don't see how the polar alignment plugin would be any different. I was platesolving with a 550D just fine for a while using NINA and Astap. Actually if you go through the (not that much) trouble to setup NINA and platesolving i think you'll find that NINA is great to use for other reasons too. Platesolving + sequencing + the framing tool + target list etc, great software and costs nothing at all.

There is also the D.A.R.V slew method: https://www.cloudynights.com/articles/cat/articles/darv-drift-alignment-by-robert-vice-r2760 Sounds a bit time consuming but would work better than a polarscope alignment with some practice.

 

[Scooot]

It’s very easy with an Asiair, it accepts many dslr’s but not all. You can then use a smart phone (or iPad) as your screen. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Scooot

[adyj1]

1 hour ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Is there a way to polar align through my OTA and DSLR using a laptop and a software program?

There is, but it's a slightly steep but worthwhile learning curve; control your mount with the laptop, and use astro capture software that supports semi-auto PA.

For windows, an EQMOD cable attached to your mount, ascom, eqascom and nina software (nina 1.11 nightly build) and the 'three point polar alignment' plugin. 

(I'm assuming you don't use Linux or you'd have mentioned it.Probably a couple of times 😂 ) 

Ady

Edit: three people typing at the same time 😂 

Edited November 5, 2021 by adyj1

[Pitch Black Skies]

11 minutes ago, adyj1 said:

There is, but it's a slightly steep but worthwhile learning curve; control your mount with the laptop, and use astro capture software that supports semi-auto PA.

For windows, an EQMOD cable attached to your mount, ascom, eqascom and nina software (nina 1.11 nightly build) and the 'three point polar alignment' plugin. 

(I'm assuming you don't use Linux or you'd have mentioned it.Probably a couple of times 😂 ) 

Ady

Haha, thanks Ady, I have Windows 11. Does APT do the same as NINA, but maybe a little easier to use?

[adyj1]

APT is probably easier to get your head around as a beginner (I used it for 3+ years) and but it doesn't have a PA routine, unfortunately. 

Watch this and tell me you don't want it 😉 

Ady

 

[adyj1]

(By the way, Linux has a very capable alternative in ekos/Kstars, and it has a similar semi-auto PA routine to NINA) 

[Pitch Black Skies]

56 minutes ago, adyj1 said:

APT is probably easier to get your head around as a beginner (I used it for 3+ years) and but it doesn't have a PA routine, unfortunately. 

Watch this and tell me you don't want it 😉 

Ady

 

Looks great.

So there is a way I can do this through my DSLR and OTA?

[Pitch Black Skies]

1 hour ago, ONIKKINEN said:

I was going to say sharpcap pro as its excellent, but im pretty sure sharpcap doesn't work with DSLRs. Still there are options left.

Have a look at this video from Cuiv of using the NINA polar alignment plugin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI1tzoBhkH8

NINA works with at least Canon and Nikon DSLRs and i don't see how the polar alignment plugin would be any different. I was platesolving with a 550D just fine for a while using NINA and Astap. Actually if you go through the (not that much) trouble to setup NINA and platesolving i think you'll find that NINA is great to use for other reasons too. Platesolving + sequencing + the framing tool + target list etc, great software and costs nothing at all.

There is also the D.A.R.V slew method: https://www.cloudynights.com/articles/cat/articles/darv-drift-alignment-by-robert-vice-r2760 Sounds a bit time consuming but would work better than a polarscope alignment with some practice.

 

Excellent! Thank you

[Pitch Black Skies]

Do you guys have any experience with Polemaster?

Would it be a waste to buy if I was planning to upgrade to a guidescope and guidecam anyway in the future?

I believe I can platesolve with a guidescope and guidecam.

[adyj1]

35 minutes ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Would it be a waste to buy

You do realise that a polemaster likely costs MORE than a guide scope and guide camera? 

... and to get guiding working you're going to be pretty far down the road of connecting camera to laptop to mount and running NINA. 

I reckon you could get NINA working *just* to use the three-point polar alignment fairly easily - at least as easily as getting APT up and running, IMO - and then when you're ready it will be a small step to full-blown automated image acquisition ☺ . 

Just my 2p worth

[ONIKKINEN]

58 minutes ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Do you guys have any experience with Polemaster?

Would it be a waste to buy if I was planning to upgrade to a guidescope and guidecam anyway in the future?

I believe I can platesolve with a guidescope and guidecam.

Dont have an opinion on the polemaster, except that i find it hard to think where i would put it in mine or even need it. Polar alignment options with platesolving are great and since platesolving is fantastic anyway, might aswell polar align using the same methods. ASI 120 and any decent 50mm guidescope will satisfy the needs for Sharpcap pro polar alignment and cost about the same as the polemaster. And you get a guiding setup as a bonus. To be honest i have not even considered methods other than sharpcap pro polar alignment since i tried it the first time. It is impossible to do wrong and never takes more than a few minutes. If there is a budget for the polemaster, then the guider route would also fit the budget, and be usable for more than one thing.

Platesolving in NINA happens through the imaging scope and camera. As long as your camera model is supported you will be able to platesolve and polar align (uses platesolving).

And by the way, if you have the newer synscan V5 model of EQ-5 you can just use a printer style USB cable to connect to the mount. This way you can actually use the handset and PC controls with your mount at the same time and you don't have to get a separate EQMOD cable. If you have the USB port in the bottom of your handset, you have the new model.

[rickwayne]

3 hours ago, adyj1 said:

(By the way, Linux has a very capable alternative in ekos/Kstars, and it has a similar semi-auto PA routine to NINA) 

I'd say it's full-auto these days, unless you want it to turn the AZ and ALT knobs. I mean, yes, you have to choose a star, then click "Next", then click "Refresh". Seems pretty automated to me! I've had very good results with it slewing the scope and shooting its images automatically, even pointing 170 degrees away from Polaris.

[adyj1]

On 06/11/2021 at 01:27, ONIKKINEN said:

To be honest i have not even considered methods other than sharpcap pro polar alignment since i tried it the first time. It is impossible to do wrong and never takes more than a few minutes.

I was a sharpcap pro user for a couple of years, but had serious problems with my travel setup (az-gti) - which has no polar scope at all. Unless I was already within 5 deg of PA by eye, then sharpcap couldn't platesolve and I was left randomly moving Dec and Ra until it could. (I would not have had this problem if I had a polar scope and could have roughly polar aligned) . No such problem with NINA, which can PA even if you can't see polaris at all. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by adyj1
clarification

[adyj1]

6 minutes ago, rickwayne said:

I'd say it's full-auto these days, unless you want it to turn the AZ and ALT knobs

You say tomarto and I say tomayto 😉 

I was indeed referring to just pressing 'go' and letting the software control the camera and the mount to do its stuff, after which it tells you which knobs to twist, in which direction, and by how much...

To me, that's not *fully* auto - it's auto apart from the manual bits. 😁 

 

[Pitch Black Skies]

8 hours ago, adyj1 said:

You do realise that a polemaster likely costs MORE than a guide scope and guide camera? 

... and to get guiding working you're going to be pretty far down the road of connecting camera to laptop to mount and running NINA. 

I reckon you could get NINA working *just* to use the three-point polar alignment fairly easily - at least as easily as getting APT up and running, IMO - and then when you're ready it will be a small step to full-blown automated image acquisition ☺ . 

Just my 2p worth

Exactly what I was thinking. If I was planning to progress to guiding in the next couple of months, that would make Polemaster redundant as I could achieve perfect polar alignment through the guidescope and guidecam through NINA.

[Pitch Black Skies]

8 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Dont have an opinion on the polemaster, except that i find it hard to think where i would put it in mine or even need it. Polar alignment options with platesolving are great and since platesolving is fantastic anyway, might aswell polar align using the same methods. ASI 120 and any decent 50mm guidescope will satisfy the needs for Sharpcap pro polar alignment and cost about the same as the polemaster. And you get a guiding setup as a bonus. To be honest i have not even considered methods other than sharpcap pro polar alignment since i tried it the first time. It is impossible to do wrong and never takes more than a few minutes. If there is a budget for the polemaster, then the guider route would also fit the budget, and be usable for more than one thing.

Platesolving in NINA happens through the imaging scope and camera. As long as your camera model is supported you will be able to platesolve and polar align (uses platesolving).

And by the way, if you have the newer synscan V5 model of EQ-5 you can just use a printer style USB cable to connect to the mount. This way you can actually use the handset and PC controls with your mount at the same time and you don't have to get a separate EQMOD cable. If you have the USB port in the bottom of your handset, you have the new model.

I don't have the USB port. My camera is a Canon 800D.

Sharp cap sounds great, but I was wondering if that would even be necessary as alignment can be achieved through NINA.

Would I be getting the ASI 120 colour or mono, or does that even matter?

What 50mm guidescope could you recommend? I think SVBONY do one that's quite cheap. Is the ZWO mini 30mm too small? I'm currently eyeballing the Astro Essentials 50mm or 32mm guidescope.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Pitch Black Skies

[adyj1]

43 minutes ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Exactly what I was thinking. If I was planning to progress to guiding in the next couple of months, that would make Polemaster redundant as I could achieve perfect polar alignment through the guidescope and guidecam through NINA.

... but you wouldn't be using the guidecam for your polar alignment in NINA - it uses your primary camera.

By all means get the guiding setup, as you'll progress to that quickly, but you already have just about all you need for PA using NINA (apart from possibly the EQMOD cable which should *definitely* be your next purchase if you haven't got one).

For the guidescope I have both the astro essentials and ZWO 32mm guidescopes, and they are fine. I prefer the AE one for usability and accessories. 

I'll let someone else comment on which of the colour or mono is the best choice - I have mono because all I want to use it for is to guide (and that was the first one to come up on the for sale forum 😉). Both will work. 

[Stickey]

I struggled to get good PA with my HEQ5 Polar Scope, until I got an ASIAir. That , for me, was probably the 2nd best investment i ever made in astronomy (the 1st being a scope🙂).

I think it will work with a Canon 800D, it works with most modern Canon and Nikon DSLRs, but you'd need to check.

I can usual achieve <10" accuracy,  which means I don't need to guide as I'm not into narrow band imaging and very long exposures.

The same device offers catalogue-based (M, NGC, IC etc) goto, with optical centering and it provides imaging sequence planning and execution.

It works with a mobile phone or tablet and can be velcro'd to the tripod to protect against an accidental drop.

It may not be relevant to you,  but it also means I don't need to carry a laptop to a dark site with concomitant reduction in dark adaption and risk of damage from it being dropped.

[Scooot]

37 minutes ago, Stickey said:

I struggled to get good PA with my HEQ5 Polar Scope, until I got an ASIAir. That , for me, was probably the 2nd best investment i ever made in astronomy (the 1st being a scope🙂).

I think it will work with a Canon 800D, it works with most modern Canon and Nikon DSLRs, but you'd need to check.

I can usual achieve <10" accuracy,  which means I don't need to guide as I'm not into narrow band imaging and very long exposures.

The same device offers catalogue-based (M, NGC, IC etc) goto, with optical centering and it provides imaging sequence planning and execution.

It works with a mobile phone or tablet and can be velcro'd to the tripod to protect against an accidental drop.

It may not be relevant to you,  but it also means I don't need to carry a laptop to a dark site with concomitant reduction in dark adaption and risk of damage from it being dropped.

I must confess I’m very pleased with mine  

Lately, after polar aligning  I’ve been going to the home position, and then doing it again for a few times, maybe 2 to four. So I spend a few extra minutes doing this. I find it’s usually changed slightly from the first. Each time I fine tune it and tighten it up, and I then get it very close without much movement, it makes my guiding more accurate. 

[StevieDvd]

It would help to advise if we knew what software you are currently using (if any) and if you intend to image away from home location. You may start imaging standing next to your scope but want to move on to leaving it to run - whilst you monitor control from indoors in the warm.

Your options range from using the PA alignment in the Synscan handset, no camera needed, to the purchase of a PA tool such as Polemaster.

Since Polemaster came out there has been a heap of software to make PA easier. Depending on what computer type you use (Windows, Mac, Linux) and how comfortable you are with using them, makes your choice a defining factor.

For example if you like Linux you can configure a system fairly cheaply to use at home or on location. A Raspberry Pi system running Astroberry, Stellarmate ir Asiair in order of cost (all have a PA utility).

Windows, it seems NINA is catching up with user friendly PA plugins too, and again free. Some capture software have their own PA as well.  For example, Sharpcap needs a cheap license to use the PA and works well if you can see the North/South poles (it can use a DSLR via a tweak in the process).  This is a bonus if you use Sharpcap for your image capture.

HTH

Steve

 

 

[Pitch Black Skies]

3 hours ago, adyj1 said:

... but you wouldn't be using the guidecam for your polar alignment in NINA - it uses your primary camera.

By all means get the guiding setup, as you'll progress to that quickly, but you already have just about all you need for PA using NINA (apart from possibly the EQMOD cable which should *definitely* be your next purchase if you haven't got one).

For the guidescope I have both the astro essentials and ZWO 32mm guidescopes, and they are fine. I prefer the AE one for usability and accessories. 

I'll let someone else comment on which of the colour or mono is the best choice - I have mono because all I want to use it for is to guide (and that was the first one to come up on the for sale forum 😉). Both will work. 

Ah I see, and the EQMOD cable basically just connects my mount to my laptop correct? I've heard something about a WiFi adapter too, would that do the same thing?

[ONIKKINEN]

3 hours ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

I don't have the USB port. My camera is a Canon 800D.

Sharp cap sounds great, but I was wondering if that would even be necessary as alignment can be achieved through NINA.

Would I be getting the ASI 120 colour or mono, or does that even matter?

What 50mm guidescope could you recommend? I think SVBONY do one that's quite cheap. Is the ZWO mini 30mm too small? I'm currently eyeballing the Astro Essentials 50mm or 32mm guidescope.

Sharpcap wouldnt be necessary at all. I just think its a great piece of software and prefer that even when i do everything else in NINA. You can platesolve-polar align with NINA through your 800D with just an EQMOD cable.

Mono for the guidecam as it is more accurate. I have the TS 60mm F4 guidescope and that is great to use and light on the mount. I bought that instead of a 50mm one just because of availability, so i dont have a preference between 50 and 60 really.

The 50mm astro essentials looks very similar to mine, might even be the same manufacturer.

Image quality for guiding doesnt really matter so dont lose any sleep for that. If its really bad you may want to get a UV/IR cut filter, because of the fast achromat design of the scope. I have one and i am unsure if it affected guiding or not, but stars appear a bit smaller.

[adyj1]

2 hours ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

Ah I see, and the EQMOD cable basically just connects my mount to my laptop correct? I've heard something about a WiFi adapter too, would that do the same thing?

Yes, but with an extra level of complexity. You'd want to configure it in 'Station mode' ideally, so it was just another device on your home network, rather than being a private WiFi access point for its own network. 

I won't give you advice about saving £20 or so by making a DIY cable, as anyone considering a polemaster deserves only the best 😉 

[Pitch Black Skies]

9 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

It would help to advise if we knew what software you are currently using (if any) and if you intend to image away from home location. You may start imaging standing next to your scope but want to move on to leaving it to run - whilst you monitor control from indoors in the warm.

Your options range from using the PA alignment in the Synscan handset, no camera needed, to the purchase of a PA tool such as Polemaster.

Since Polemaster came out there has been a heap of software to make PA easier. Depending on what computer type you use (Windows, Mac, Linux) and how comfortable you are with using them, makes your choice a defining factor.

For example if you like Linux you can configure a system fairly cheaply to use at home or on location. A Raspberry Pi system running Astroberry, Stellarmate ir Asiair in order of cost (all have a PA utility).

Windows, it seems NINA is catching up with user friendly PA plugins too, and again free. Some capture software have their own PA as well.  For example, Sharpcap needs a cheap license to use the PA and works well if you can see the North/South poles (it can use a DSLR via a tweak in the process).  This is a bonus if you use Sharpcap for your image capture.

HTH

Steve

 

 

Hi, as mentioned I'm just using the polar scope on the mount.

I'm not familiar with any astrophotography software, it is all new to me.

I don't intend to image away from my home location.

At the moment I'm just setting a series of exposures on an intervalometer. I go back inside and when it's complete I return to bring everything back inside.

It appears the most logical move for me would be to learn how to polar align through NINA as the only thing I require for that is an EQMOD cable.