Reflector vs refractor

[Asoor]

Hey everyone, I'm considering buying or building a telescope. The options are buying a 160-1300mm refractor, or building a 160-1300 reflector. There's a premade 160-1300mm reflector but it's double the price of the refractor so it's well out out of my price range. Unfortunately I live in a country where there aren't many options and all the telescopes are made here, not brand telescopes. Any thoughts?

[CraigT82]

A 160mm/1300mm refractor is a very big heavy beast, have you got a mount? 

[Asoor]

2 minutes ago, CraigT82 said:

A 160mm/1300mm refractor is a very big heavy beast, have you got a mount? 

No, I don't, I'm still new to this.

[CraigT82]

OK, is there any way you could get out somewhere to see some telescopes and mounts in the flesh? An astronomy club or something like that? It will help your decision making a lot once you have seen and used these things for real. 

[John]

Try a 150mm f/8 reflector (newtonian). Much lower cost, easier to get or make the parts, |Easier to mount and good performance for each $ spent.

Of if you feel more ambitious a 200mm F/6 newtonian which will probably better than a 160mm refractor and still cost less and be an easier project to achieve.

If you go for the dobsonian mounted approach the costs and build are simpler still.

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by John

[Asoor]

4 minutes ago, CraigT82 said:

OK, is there any way you could get out somewhere to see some telescopes and mounts in the flesh? An astronomy club or something like that? It will help your decision making a lot once you have seen and used these things for real. 

It's a bit complicated but selling telescopes are banned here except for a few sources so, there aren't things of that sort. I only saw one person with an 8 inch celestron mak. So I'm kind of relying on youe opinions.

[Asoor]

4 minutes ago, John said:

Try a 150mm f/8 reflector (newtonian). Much lower cost, easier to get or make the parts, |Easier to mount and good performance for each $ spent.

Of if you feel more ambitious a 200mm F/6 newtonian which will probably better than a 160mm refractor and still cost less and be an easier project to achieve.

If you go for the dobsonian mounted approach the costs and build are simpler still.

 

 

 

My options are limited, the only one available is an f5 152mm, I had one of those and sold it because i couldn't see any detail, not even jupiter's belts. I don't know if that was a collimation problem or the telescope's quality. That's why I'm considering a 160mm whether that be a reflector or a refractor.

[Asoor]

Those are pretty much all that's available. My budget is around 5000

Edited June 27, 2021 by Asoor

[Astro Noodles]

Are you able to order from abroad?

 

[CraigT82]

You will need to factor in the cost of a mount, eyepieces, finderscope and diagonal (for refractor). You can't just spend most of your budget (4850EGP) on the 160mm refractor OTA only, you will need a large mount to put it on! 

If I were you I'd get the VR 152 750 reflector on altaz wooden mount with 2 eyepieces for 4850. This size telescope should easily show you jupiters belts, polar hoods and great red spot.

Edited June 27, 2021 by CraigT82

[Asoor]

1 minute ago, Astro Noodles said:

Are you able to order from abroad?

 

No, I'd need a special permit and double the telescope's cost in taxes.

[Asoor]

4 minutes ago, CraigT82 said:

You will need to factor in the cost of a mount, eyepieces, finderscope and diagonal (for refractor). You can't just spend most of your budget (4850EGP) on the 160mm refractor OTA only, you will need a large mount to put it on! 

If I were you I'd get the VR 152 750 refletror on altaz wooden mount with 2 eyepieces for 4850. This size telescope should easily show you jupiters belts, polar hoods and great red spot.

I just contacted the seller and he told me they will have 7 inch mirrors, do you think building a 7 inch dob would be better or buying the 152 reflector? He said the mirror is parabolic as oposed to those, they are all spherical. It'll cost around 2500.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Asoor

[CraigT82]

1 minute ago, Asoor said:

I just contacted the seller and he told me they will have 7 inch mirrors, do you think building a 7 inch dob would be better or buying the 152 reflector?

Personally I wouldn't, it would be a lot of work for only 1 extra inch of aperture. Unless you would like to do the work yourself, it would be pretty satisfying to build your own scope! 

Just looking at the price list you posted, is it the 160mm 1300mm reflector mirror that is on offer? That might be quite good quality as it is a longer focal length (easier to make). So it may well give you noticeably better views than the 152mm/750mm

[Tiny Clanger]

1 minute ago, Asoor said:

No, I'd need a special permit and double the telescope's cost in taxes.

Good grief, at least we only have to deal with constant cloud cover ...

I'd say reflector , no need for a diagonal, nice simple alt az , the biggest mirror you can afford. Make a collimation cap yourself, it's not difficult.

Heather

[Asoor]

3 minutes ago, CraigT82 said:

Personally I wouldn't, it would be a lot of work for only 1 extra inch of aperture. Unless you would like to do the work yourself, it would be pretty satisfying to build your own scope! 

Just looking at the price list you posted, is it the 160mm 1300mm reflector mirror that is on offer? That might be quite good quality as it is a longer focal length (easier to make). So it may well give you noticeably better views than the 152mm/750mm

I want to build one but the possibility of failing is a bit scary.if I'll build one it'll either be the 160mm one or the 7 inch, I'm waiting to know the focal ratio of the 7 inch one, the light pollution here makes seeing galaxies and nebulae impossible.

 

[Asoor]

5 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Good grief, at least we only have to deal with constant cloud cover ...

I'd say reflector , no need for a diagonal, nice simple alt az , the biggest mirror you can afford. Make a collimation cap yourself, it's not difficult.

Heather

do you think I should build a 7 inch or a 160-1300mm one or buy a 152-750?

[vlaiv]

31 minutes ago, Asoor said:

No, I'd need a special permit and double the telescope's cost in taxes.

Are you completely sure about this?

I just checked import tariffs for Egypt and while there are goods with very high tariffs, I've found following quote:

Quote

Tariffs on the vast majority of goods entering Egypt are below 15%.

I'm asking because for that kind of money - 8850 EGP you can basically get this sort of scope (which is probably better):

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

(when calculating cost subtract UK VAT from the price as item will be exported from UK).

Maybe you can instead see if you can import from some neighboring country? Egypt is member of League of Arab states and I think that means some sort of free trade or similar?

By the way, for other members to see what sort of telescope that 160 / 1300 is there is video posted on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/Voyager.Telescope/videos/vr-160-1300/2300772490238792/

 

[Tiny Clanger]

14 minutes ago, Asoor said:

do you think I should build a 7 inch or a 160-1300mm one or buy a 152-750?

I don't know how skilled you are, or how available the materials would be : I'm sure even a poor wood worker with just hand tools like me could build some sort of tube and a dobsonian base, but the spider ? and the secondary mirror to go on it ? The focus arrangement too ...

Those , I believe, require a degree of precision. If you could get those parts and the cell to hold and collimate the primary mirror ready made, perhaps salvaged from a broken telescope, then maybe you could get a working device, but it seems a pretty difficult project to me.

I searched for similar requests, and came up  with an almost identical thread from a few years ago, I wonder if that poster is still around and might be able to help you (unless of course it is you under a different name ! ) :

 

 

[Asoor]

1 minute ago, vlaiv said:

Are you completely sure about this?

I just checked import tariffs for Egypt and while there are goods with very high tariffs, I've found following quote:

I'm asking because for that kind of money - 8850 EGP you can basically get this sort of scope (which is probably better):

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

(when calculating cost subtract UK VAT from the price as item will be exported from UK).

Maybe you can instead see if you can import from some neighboring country? Egypt is member of League of Arab states and I think that means some sort of free trade or similar?

By the way, for other members to see what sort of telescope that 160 / 1300 is there is video posted on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/Voyager.Telescope/videos/vr-160-1300/2300772490238792/

 

Yeah, I know people who got one for their university's astronomy club, it was an 8 inch celestron mak, at the time it cost 8000 pounds, they got it in for 30k. Thanks a lot though, I really appreciate the effort

[Tiny Clanger]

Just now, vlaiv said:

Are you completely sure about this?

I just checked import tariffs for Egypt and while there are goods with very high tariffs, I've found following quote:

I'm asking because for that kind of money - 8850 EGP you can basically get this sort of scope (which is probably better):

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

(when calculating cost subtract UK VAT from the price as item will be exported from UK).

Maybe you can instead see if you can import from some neighboring country? Egypt is member of League of Arab states and I think that means some sort of free trade or similar?

By the way, for other members to see what sort of telescope that 160 / 1300 is there is video posted on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/Voyager.Telescope/videos/vr-160-1300/2300772490238792/

 

I thought that too, but saw this from the US Library of Congress  https://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/egypt.php

which states that in Egypt

"Specified categories of firearms and related equipment, such as automatic assault rifles, rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), gun silencers, and telescopic equipment used with weapons are prohibited."

I would guess somewhat over enthusiastic application of the words 'telescopic equipment' are the problem , and OP is not going to risk the dire consequences of flouting, or even criticising , that law .

 

[Asoor]

6 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

I don't know how skilled you are, or how available the materials would be : I'm sure even a poor wood worker with just hand tools like me could build some sort of tube and a dobsonian base, but the spider ? and the secondary mirror to go on it ? The focus arrangement too ...

Those , I believe, require a degree of precision. If you could get those parts and the cell to hold and collimate the primary mirror ready made, perhaps salvaged from a broken telescope, then maybe you could get a working device, but it seems a pretty difficult project to me.

I searched for similar requests, and came up  with an almost identical thread from a few years ago, I wonder if that poster is still around and might be able to help you (unless of course it is you under a different name ! ) :

 

 

I'm not really skilled but I have a friend who does a bit of blacksmithing and wood projects so I'll rely on him and his tools. I'm not sure about the collimation though. do you think the size difference is worth it? I'll try to ask the poster and see what he knows about the manufacturer. Thanks a lot.

[Asoor]

1 minute ago, Tiny Clanger said:

I thought that too, but saw this from the US Library of Congress  https://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/egypt.php

which states that in Egypt

"Specified categories of firearms and related equipment, such as automatic assault rifles, rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), gun silencers, and telescopic equipment used with weapons are prohibited."

I would guess somewhat over enthusiastic application of the words 'telescopic equipment' are the problem , and OP is not going to risk the dire consequences of flouting, or even criticising , that law .

 

Yeah that's the problem, the only seller with any permission to build, import and sell telescopes is this company, and even they struggle with importing the lenses and mirrors

[Asoor]

18 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Are you completely sure about this?

I just checked import tariffs for Egypt and while there are goods with very high tariffs, I've found following quote:

I'm asking because for that kind of money - 8850 EGP you can basically get this sort of scope (which is probably better):

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

(when calculating cost subtract UK VAT from the price as item will be exported from UK).

Maybe you can instead see if you can import from some neighboring country? Egypt is member of League of Arab states and I think that means some sort of free trade or similar?

By the way, for other members to see what sort of telescope that 160 / 1300 is there is video posted on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/Voyager.Telescope/videos/vr-160-1300/2300772490238792/

 

I also just checked the video here, this telescope costs almost 10k, meaning I either buy the 152mm or build a 160mm one. What do you all think? is it worth it? I really appreciate the effort you are all putting in.

Edit: I used to have a 152-750 but I saw no detail at all, I never collimated it because I didn't know how at the time and the seller is in another city so I sold it.  Does not collimating it cause such loss of detail? That experience is why I'm considering building one instead.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Asoor

[Tiny Clanger]

15 minutes ago, Asoor said:

Edit: I used to have a 152-750 but I saw no detail at all, I never collimated it because I didn't know how at the time and the seller is in another city so I sold it.  Does not collimating it cause such loss of detail? That experience is why I'm considering building one instead.

Not collimating it means the mirrors are not properly lined up, so you get a poor image, so your old telescope would probably. have been better if collimated.

I can;t say what is best for you , along with everyone else here, I have no idea of the quality of the ready made telescopes available to you, or the mirrors. As for making your own telescope, well, if youtube is available to you there, there can be no better telescope maker to watch in action than John Dobson himself :

 

 

[Asoor]

4 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Not collimating it means the mirrors are not properly lined up, so you get a poor image, so your old telescope would probably. have been better if collimated.

I can;t say what is best for you , along with everyone else here, I have no idea of the quality of the ready made telescopes available to you, or the mirrors. As for making your own telescope, well, if youtube is available to you there, there can be no better telescope maker to watch in action than John Dobson himself :

 

 

Thanks a lot, I think I'll just build one, this video is a life saver. Appreciate the effort.