Canon EOS 450D upgade options (EOS800D?)

[Domain105]

Hello all,

I've been using a Canon 450D (modded) for a while now and thinking of an upgrade. To be honest, I'm reasonably happy with my 450D but would like better sharper images and am thinking maybe the 450D is limiting me.

My setup is as follows:

• Skywatcher 150PDS
• Coma Corrector (0.85x)
• HEQ5 with Rowan belt mod
• Skywatcher 9x50 guide scope with QHY5 camera for use with PHD
• I'm in south Birmingham so am Bortle 8 with heavy light pollution. Towards the north its probably Bortle 9. 😞 
• Astronomik CLS clip filer and a Canon 450D modded
• Best FWHM I can get with focusing using a mask is usually around 2.9-3.5. No matter how much I try, most likely the seeing is not letting me go higher.
• My subs are not too bad with 300s subs with not much trailing. Any higher and the light pollution gets too much.

I do not have a permanent obsy out side so I have to life and shift for each imaging session. Budget is tight as always which is limiting me going to a dedicated Astrocam. I do not have a large clear view of the sky to the south due to a massive tree.  

I've attached some images that I have captured with my current setup but would like to go a level higher. The images people post on this sight are awe inspiring but I know I could never get to that quality with the light pollution and my budget. I started  thinking about upgrading to a Canon EOS 800D due to it's higher resolution and hopefully better noise reduction but I know upping to a higher MP (from 12 to 24) may not be the answer. Reading about over and under saturation and pixel size etc is a whole other dimension to my issues.

I built myself a Arduino focuser (thanks to SGL) and that works well. Also I am in the process of making a Peltier cooler box for the 450D (again thanks to SGL) which in testing brings the sensor temp (as reported by Backyard EOS) down to around 3c from the normal 19-20c. Not tried that in an imaging session yet, 

I've looked at OSC CCDs and would love a ZWO ASI 294MC-PRO (cooled and also a nice big sensor for the FOV I would like to have) I have read that due to my light pollution, using a dedicated OSC astrocam, this could be made worse as the camera would simply pick up more light pollution so for this reason I have not gone further with dedicated astrocams. Mono would not really work for me as my chances to image are few and far between and I will not have the time to capture the separate RGB images with the time I usually have before I need to pack up for the night or lose sight of my target behind the trees.

I've read through the "ZWO ASI2600MM-Pro vs Cooled and Modded DSLR image quality" thread which is active right now but it didn't seem to answer my queries.

Everything I have ever learned about astro equipment and astrophotography has come from this site so a massive thanks to all for getting me this far.

Essentially I just need some advice to validate the following:

• Is it worth me upgrading from an Canon 450D to 800D? Will there be much change in my images?
• With heavy light pollution, is a OSC astrocam going to make things worse?  - I can usually get rid of most of the light pollution gradients using photoshop etc but the result of the removal is more noise in the image.  

I'm still new to imaging and being colour blind does not help with how my images look but they seem 'normal' to me so apologies if they are not great!

Any advice would be really welcome. 

3 x 300s subs 

 

10 x 300s subs

Not sure what the sub count on this was. It was a long while ago and I no longer that the raw data 

 

 

[powerlord]

Just a beginner - but I have a 1200d modified, and last week got myself a 6d cheap on ebay. Currently getting that modified. That was my upgrade path - dunno if worth considering ?

I got the 6d got £350 because is had a cracked rear screen - but it's just the plastic cover not the LCD which is fine - replacement ordered from ebay for 3 quid.

much lower noise, full frame goodness, decent cropped video mode might be ok for planets, etc ?

anyway, just a thought.

[Domain105]

Thanks for that. I hadn't considered full frame and from you say 6D sounds good.

[smashing]

I'm not sure I'd go from one DSLR to another...I'm with a modded 600d and will hop straight to a dedicated camera after.

Why not pair a dedicated OSC with an L-enhance or L-extreme filter, lots of people doing that in some very heavy light pollution locations.

[Domain105]

I actually had considered the lenhance / lextreme but maybe wrongly thought that for some targets like galaxies and clusters like M45 they would cut out too much light making my imaging sessions even longer. 

I know I can't have it all with this much light pollution so yes thanks for your reply, I'll start looking into that option too. 

 

 

[smashing]

2 hours ago, Domain105 said:

I actually had considered the lenhance / lextreme but maybe wrongly thought that for some targets like galaxies and clusters like M45 they would cut out too much light making my imaging sessions even longer. 

I know I can't have it all with this much light pollution so yes thanks for your reply, I'll start looking into that option too. 

 

 

I have the extreme and a general light pollution filter for different targets

[rnobleeddy]

I don't believe the 150PDS can cover the full frame sensor of a 6D.  

Later Canon sensors (after the 450D) are regarded as less noisy, but I doubt you'll see a dramatic difference. It's the cooling on the dedicated cameras that really reduces the noise.

 

Quote

With heavy light pollution, is a OSC astrocam going to make things worse?  

I'm not sure I'm confident to say this is completely wrong - but I don't see how it could make things worse. You've got a certain number of photons from the target, a certain number from the sky background, a certain amount of read noise and dark current and so on.  The dedicated camera will improve on the camera related noise terms, whilst the sky stays the same. So it can't get worse - only better. I imagine the improvement may be less noticeable if you're in a highly light polluted area as that will dominate.

Most importantly, a new dedicated camera will have a significantly higher quantum efficiency that a 450D (which is around 40%). So you'll collect light more quickly with a newer astrocam.

 

The enhance/extreme filters work well on narrowband targets (e.g emission nebula) because they increase signal to noise ratio by removing noise but leaving the signal intact, assuming that most of the signal is the Ha or O3 emission lines. They don't work well on broadband targets like galaxies, but there are decent filters for this, such as https://www.firstlightoptics.com/light-pollution-reduction/idas-d2-light-pollution-suppression-filter.html

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by rnobleeddy

[michael8554]

I have a 6D because of the large pixels needed for my long FL scope, it's sensitivity, and it's legendary low noise at high ISO.

Yes it is vignetted by the scope, so what ? You crop to get the same result as a smaller sensor.

But the price of a Ha modded one is getting into dedicated OSC astro camera country.

I stick with the 6D because of it's simplicity to use compared to OSC.

But the pixels could be to large your 637mm effective FL scope.

Michael

[Domain105]

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm still deciding but I'm leaning more towards the ASI294-MC. I'm guessing it will be a fairly decent jump up even with the light pollution as you say.

[rnobleeddy]

16 hours ago, michael8554 said:

I have a 6D because of the large pixels needed for my long FL scope, it's sensitivity, and it's legendary low noise at high ISO.

Yes it is vignetted by the scope, so what ? You crop to get the same result as a smaller sensor.

But the price of a Ha modded one is getting into dedicated OSC astro camera country.

I stick with the 6D because of it's simplicity to use compared to OSC.

But the pixels could be to large your 637mm effective FL scope.

Michael

Do you have an estimate of how much of the field is usable? 

 

I've been thinking of getting an unmodded full frame canon for other uses, but would probably use it for the astro targets that don't benefit from modding.

[michael8554]

8 hours ago, rnobleeddy said:

Do you have an estimate of how much of the field is usable? 

That would entirely depend on the telescope it was connected to.

In my case 8" SCT at 1280mm FL, I crop the image to frame the target more than I crop to remove vignetting.

Here's a JPG of a Raw Flat, with OAG prism shadow at the top of frame:

[rnobleeddy]

1 hour ago, michael8554 said:

That would entirely depend on the telescope it was connected to.

In my case 8" SCT at 1280mm FL, I crop the image to frame the target more than I crop to remove vignetting.

Here's a JPG of a Raw Flat, with OAG prism shadow at the top of frame:

Thanks - sorry, I'd got in my head everyone had a 150PDS (or at least a something PDS, I imagine they're all similar!).