Tracking issues with EQMOD via Ekos/KStars

[damienh]

Hi folks, 

I believe I have a tracking issue with my EQ3 Pro mount which is being controlled in ekos and KStars. The mount is connected via a ethernet lynx cable to a Raspberry Pi 4 running Astroberry. Connection all seems ok. I have a Z61 and ASI224MC on the mount. All balanced correctly. 

My process in ekos/KStars is as follows: 

1. Polar align the mount 
2. Add the telescope and boot up the Pi
3. Ensure location and time is correct
4. Connect and start up Indi and check everything is connected.
5. Unpark then mount and ensure tracking is on.
6. Within the align module, select capture and solve on Polaris, with slew to target selected. This typically takes about 3-4 iterations and then it completes. I have it set to 30 accuracy and settle 2000.
7. I then run capture and solve with sync selected. This is super quick.
8. As far as I can see the mount is tracking. I can see the RA and DE values changing. 
9. I then go to another target and repeat the process.
10. When I finally go to the capture module and start taking pictures, or view a live feed, I can see that the centred object starts to drift. If I leave it, within a minute or so the object is often completely out of view. I have to then run the align process again. I dont see any error or warning messages in the debug logs during this process to indicate any problems.
    
    Also worth noting that during the connection process I do see this warning in the logs "[WARNING] Can not load HorizonLimits Data File ~/.indi/HorizonData.txt: No such file or directory"
    
    Now I know I dont have a guide camera attached, so I cant expect pin point accuracy, however I would have thought the tracking behaviour would be somewhat better than this.  I am in the process of getting a guiding camera and scope, but for now I would like to at least see if I am missing something regarding the above. 
    
    I have quickly booted up the Pi and the mount this morning to capture some screenshots of my EQMOD settings to see if anyone can spot something obvious there. It only has simulator CCD set as my camera wasnt close when I set it up this morning. 
    
    Any insights would be very much appreciated. 
     

Edited March 14, 2021 by damienh
add location step

[Stuart1971]

One mistake you are making is solving on Polaris, you should not do this...it does not work well at all and takes a while to complete as you have found, just not enough stars, you should slew to an object then solve and sync, then another object in the opposite side of the sky, and same again and then to your target and solve and sync, this builds an alignment model, and allows for much better and precise tracking...and also very good PA helps... 👍🏼

[dannybgoode]

Agree with Stuart. For what reason are you plate solving Polaris. If it is to improve your PA it will not do this as you need to fine tune the alignment of the mount to improve PA and not the telescope sat on the mount

[damienh]

Sorry I should add that I have tried the above process without Polaris. I believe I did a star off from Polaris and then went to M81 and repeated. Is it the case I should do 2-4 objects and expected improved performance? In terms of polar alignment, I believe I am fairly spot on, having looked through polar scope and illuminator. 

 

 

[Stuart1971]

9 minutes ago, damienh said:

Sorry I should add that I have tried the above process without Polaris. I believe I did a star off from Polaris and then went to M81 and repeated. Is it the case I should do 2-4 objects and expected improved performance? In terms of polar alignment, I believe I am fairly spot on, having looked through polar scope and illuminator. 

 

 

You have to make sure you click “sync” on the object after its centred and solved...👍🏼

[damienh]

4 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

You have to make sure you click “sync” on the object after its centred and solved...👍🏼

I have 100% done that. But it does start drifting. Maybe I need to try more objects.

[Stuart1971]

2 minutes ago, damienh said:

I have 100% done that. But it does start drifting. Maybe I need to try more objects.

And you are sure your PA is spot on....? Or very very close...? And how long is it before it starts to drift and at what focal length is this at..?

[damienh]

15 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

And you are sure your PA is spot on....? Or very very close...? And how long is it before it starts to drift and at what focal length is this at..?

I believe polar alignment is spot on. I will try next time to do it earlier on in the evening to guarantee it’s Polaris. Focal length is 360mm. I’d say you can start to nice it after a few seconds. Maybe an entire minute until it’s completely out of view. 
 

one thing I am wondering is once the telescope is attached. The dove tail bar is off to one side once locked so the telescope isn’t at the same position as the polar scope. It’s off by a few cm or so. Should I adjust for this? 

[Stuart1971]

8 minutes ago, damienh said:

I believe polar alignment is spot on. I will try next time to do it earlier on in the evening to guarantee it’s Polaris. Focal length is 360mm. I’d say you can start to nice it after a few seconds. Maybe an entire minute until it’s completely out of view. 
 

one thing I am wondering is once the telescope is attached. The dove tail bar is off to one side once locked so the telescope isn’t at the same position as the polar scope. It’s off by a few cm or so. Should I adjust for this? 

Not sure what you mean by your telescope being off...but it sounds like it’s not tracking well at all if it moves off centre that quickly...

[almcl]

From your description it sounds as though your mount isn't tracking.  

In your first screen shot above it appears tracking is 'off '.  Also, when tracking a star the RA and Dec values should not be changing.

Unfortunately,  I am not familiar with your software or mount so can't tell you how to switch tracking on after your set up proceedures but at 300 mm focal length your target should stay in view for hours, not seconds,

[dannybgoode]

Possibly a stupid question however have you set up a new, bespoke profile for your actual scope and camera.  I see CCD Simulator on the first tab and your scope and guide specs look perhaps a bit squiffy.

[damienh]

55 minutes ago, almcl said:

From your description it sounds as though your mount isn't tracking.  

In your first screen shot above it appears tracking is 'off '.  Also, when tracking a star the RA and Dec values should not be changing.

Unfortunately,  I am not familiar with your software or mount so can't tell you how to switch tracking on after your set up proceedures but at 300 mm focal length your target should stay in view for hours, not seconds,

So the screenshot is just an example. I didn’t get screenshots when it was all connected the other night. Interesting about the values not changing. I had assumed they would as the mount follows the object through the sky. 

[Stuart1971]

@almcl is correct, I do use this software too, and your mount is set to “tracking off” and also you say you are connected with an ethernet cable, yet you have “serial” selected in the settings....so two issue there to look at..

[damienh]

36 minutes ago, dannybgoode said:

Possibly a stupid question however have you set up a new, bespoke profile for your actual scope and camera.  I see CCD Simulator on the first tab and your scope and guide specs look perhaps a bit squiffy.

Yeah I normally have ZWO camera selected but it wasn’t near so went for that option. I just wanted to try and get some quick screenshots of the eqmod settings. When you say scope specs is there anything in particular. I can check against when the normal camera is attached. Potentially this evening. 

[Stuart1971]

2 minutes ago, damienh said:

So the screenshot is just an example. I didn’t get screenshots when it was all connected the other night. Interesting about the values not changing. I had assumed they would as the mount follows the object through the sky. 

Yes they will...as it will show where the mount is pointing ...👍🏼

Edited March 14, 2021 by Stuart1971

[damienh]

Just now, Stuart1971 said:

@almcl is correct, I do use this software too, and your mount is set to “tracking off” and also you say you are connected with an ethernet cable, yet you have “serial” selected in the settings....so two issue there to look at..

Cheers I will amend the serial setting. Doh. In of tracking that’s just because I had quickly put it together to get some screenshots. Interesting to see his point about the values shouldn’t be moving. I had assumed they would as it tracks. Clearly indicates it isn’t tracking. I wonder if I have to set tracking on again once I have synced. 

[dannybgoode]

11 minutes ago, damienh said:

Yeah I normally have ZWO camera selected but it wasn’t near so went for that option. I just wanted to try and get some quick screenshots of the eqmod settings. When you say scope specs is there anything in particular. I can check against when the normal camera is attached. Potentially this evening. 

I wanted to check that your actual scope settings - focal length,  aperture etc were correct as well as the sensor settings - resolution and pixel pitch - are all correct. 

I use Astroberry but with an AZ EQ6 GT and it skews and tracks perfectly

[rnobleeddy]

Sorry if I missed it, but would be worth posting how you did PA?  https://www.sharpcap.co.uk/ is the best £10 you can spend if you want easy, accurate PA.

But that doesn't explain your issue - even awful PA should keep the object in view for a while!

I've used Indi/EKOS extensively and my guess it that the mount has tracking turned off. This is in the screenshot above, or on the mount tab in the other set of windows you get (where you plate solve or set up imaging). If that's definitely turned on then it'd be worth running a few tests with it on and off to see if any tracking is occurring at all by seeing if tracking makes the object stay for longer.

 

I might be missing something, but I don't understand the comments about syncing with polaris. This won't help a lot,  but I can't see why it would hinder you other than costing time. AFAIK the alignment model you build with successive solves is just used for future slews. For tracking without a guide scope, my understanding is that you're solely reliant on the mount which will be a combination of the mounts quality and your PA. I'm certainly there's no need to slew across the sky in EKOS/Indi like the 3-star alignment you'd use with a handset- just plate solve to what you want, and then repeat when you want to move to a new target.

 

[dannybgoode]

5 hours ago, rnobleeddy said:

Sorry if I missed it, but would be worth posting how you did PA?  https://www.sharpcap.co.uk/ is the best £10 you can spend if you want easy, accurate PA.

No point buying Sharpcap if using Astroberry. A) it won't work and b) KStats/EKOS has a very similar PA routine built into it

[michael8554]

Not familiar with this software but I noticed :

Screen 1 Tracking = OFF (as others have said). 

Track Rate DE (Dec ?) = 0  (Not going to cause RA drift of course)

If you want us to spot errors please post your REAL settings...........

Michael

 

[rnobleeddy]

8 hours ago, dannybgoode said:

No point buying Sharpcap if using Astroberry. A) it won't work and b) KStats/EKOS has a very similar PA routine built into it

Sorry, I actually forgot to mention that, I leave my mount setup, so i bring a Windows laptop out periodically to realign with sharpcap. 

I'd be interested if there's a guide to PA with kstars as I didn't find it as easy when I did it last time, but I'm probably doing it wrong!

Sharpcap is literally about 3 minutes in total to correct my mount when it's moved a little, and maybe 5 mins in total when I've taken it down and need to redo alignment from scratch.

 

 

 

 

[dannybgoode]

6 minutes ago, rnobleeddy said:

Sorry, I actually forgot to mention that, I leave my mount setup, so i bring a Windows laptop out periodically to realign with sharpcap. 

I'd be interested if there's a guide to PA with kstars as I didn't find it as easy when I did it last time, but I'm probably doing it wrong!

Sharpcap is literally about 3 minutes in total to correct my mount when it's moved a little, and maybe 5 mins in total when I've taken it down and need to redo alignment from scratch.

 

 

 

 

The routine in KStars/EKOS is pretty much exactly the same as Sharpcap.  Take a frame, rotate mount, take another frame, move highlighted star to indicated point.  Job jobbed  

[rnobleeddy]

20 minutes ago, dannybgoode said:

The routine in KStars/EKOS is pretty much exactly the same as Sharpcap.  Take a frame, rotate mount, take another frame, move highlighted star to indicated point.  Job jobbed  

Then I shall give it a blast! 

[dannybgoode]

3 minutes ago, rnobleeddy said:

Then I shall give it a blast! 

This should help

 

 

[damienh]

Thanks folks. Looks like clear skies tonight so will see how it goes. Will also capture some screenshots of settings while in use.