Binocular tripod for 7 year old

[Alexiaqq2]

Hi,

I'm looking for a little tripod advice! My 7 year old son is hoping for a telescope or binoculars for Christmas. It's all completely new to me and lots of reading online has led me to decide that binoculars are a better starting point. I'm currently hoping to get him the Opticron Adventurer 10x50 T WP as I'm hoping I've done my measurements right and the 53 min IDP will be small enough for him! Anyway my next problem is finding a tripod. I'm hoping not to spend a fortune if I don't have to but obviously don't want to end up with rubbish either. I've seen that height is important for binoculars but as he's only 7 does that change things or are most height adjustable anyway?

Before deciding on the binoculars we had purchased a telescope (unopened and we have plenty of time to return), a Meade Polaris 114 EQ. Would it be mad to consider holding on to this and using it's tripod for the binoculars with the idea that he would use the telescope as well down the line or would the tripod not be compatible? I suppose I'm wondering that if a tripod is going to cost me €100 or so, would it be more cost effective in the long run to fork out for telescope and binoculars now and only have one tripod? 

Thanks!

[Tiny Clanger]

As far as I know, tripod to binocular mounts usually use a standard photographic tripod screw thread. The telescope you have already purchased may or may not have a standard photographic screw, probably not if it has an eq mount. I doubt anyone here will have one of those telescopes to check it for you, maybe do an online search for the instruction manual to find out without opening the box.

[mark81]

In terms of a tripod, check out First light Optics, (FLO)  in the binocular section, there's a decent selection there... All should be more than enough for the 10x50s but you'll need to check the thread on the telescope...

Mark

[Scooot]

Binoculars are good for starting out in Astronomy but it’s their versatility by virtue of being able to freely pan the night sky to see and learn about constellations, look at the moon etc that makes them good. As soon as you put them on a mount you remove the versatility. Looking high in the night sky means you’d have to bend down to look up through the eye pieces or somehow attach a right angled viewer, adjust the tripod to make it easier, or get a parallelogram binocular mount specifically for the purpose. So if buying binoculars I think hand held are best to start which of course makes other considerations such as weight etc important. Maybe a pair of 8x30s hand held instead, which are not so powerful but lighter, don’t gather as much light but will have a nice wide field of view. 
However, I think for my Grandson (only 18 months at the moment) if he shows any interest I’ll get him a Skywatcher Heritage table top telescope. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage.html
I think these are great starter scopes, no trying to set up an eq mount, just point and look.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Scooot

[Ricochet]

I think if I was in your position I would keep the telescope. Your son will need you to help him find things with either instrument, but the scope will show fainter stars and magnify objects by a much greater amount. Once you have found an object I would imagine that your son will be able to turn the slow motion controls himself to keep the object in view. 

[Girders]

Hi Alexiaqq2,  As I've got a recently turned 7 year old who was the reason I bought my first telescope a couple of years back I thought my experience may be helpful...

First, a few words on your telescope.  I wouldn't comment on the optics etc without doing more googling, but I'd worry about it's usability for children just based on the size and shape of it.  When on the tripod and looking high in the sky, the eyepiece is going to be locate at the top of the scope - likely to require kids to e standing on a stool etc to view. It's tricky for kids to look through an eyepiece at the best of times without adding having to balance into the mix.  I'd echo Scooot's recommendation of a tabletop dobsonian scope which should be in a similar budget to your Meade.  We started with the Heritage 114p and virtuoso mount which adds motorised tracking - a big plus when swapping between people looking through the telescope.

As for binoculars, I've stuck a pair of standard 10x50s on a £20 photographic tripod using a bracket and it works fine but as Scoot says, the benefit of binoculars is the fact they are handheld and you can scan the sky.  My wee one has a cheap set of binoculars described as 30*60 but are 7 or 8x magnification.  There are various versions on Amazon and they are fine for £10ish.  She loves that they are hers, she can wander around with them and hold them without any difficulty because they are so light.  And at £10 I'm not precious about them (although she knows to look after them and has been well warned about the sun!).  

I'd also pass on my biggest lesson.  Depending on where you live and weather, don't overestimate how often you will be able to get out in the garden with a telescope.  Admittedly we're in Glasgow so weather is a big issue, but so are the locations of the planets.  In 3 years, although I've had plenty of fun in the middle of the night, there have probably only been half a dozen times when weather and planet positions have worked out at a sensible time for a young kid.  Even without a scope there are great ways to feed a kid's interest in space - Maddie & Greg's Space Week on Lets Go Live on YouTube, Cambridge Astronomy's talks on Youtube etc.  You can also pick up fragments of meteorites for under £10 which is a magical thing for kids to hold in their hands.

Whatever you decide to do - good luck with it.  My wee one is still going strong with her interest after 3 years and had a quick look tonight at a very small and very wobbly Mars tonight. 

[Tiny Clanger]

6 minutes ago, Girders said:

Hi Alexiaqq2,  As I've got a recently turned 7 year old who was the reason I bought my first telescope a couple of years back I thought my experience may be helpful...

First, a few words on your telescope.  I wouldn't comment on the optics etc without doing more googling, but I'd worry about it's usability for children just based on the size and shape of it.  When on the tripod and looking high in the sky, the eyepiece is going to be locate at the top of the scope - likely to require kids to e standing on a stool etc to view. It's tricky for kids to look through an eyepiece at the best of times without adding having to balance into the mix.  I'd echo Scooot's recommendation of a tabletop dobsonian scope which should be in a similar budget to your Meade.  We started with the Heritage 114p and virtuoso mount which adds motorised tracking - a big plus when swapping between people looking through the telescope.

As for binoculars, I've stuck a pair of standard 10x50s on a £20 photographic tripod using a bracket and it works fine but as Scoot says, the benefit of binoculars is the fact they are handheld and you can scan the sky.  My wee one has a cheap set of binoculars described as 30*60 but are 7 or 8x magnification.  There are various versions on Amazon and they are fine for £10ish.  She loves that they are hers, she can wander around with them and hold them without any difficulty because they are so light.  And at £10 I'm not precious about them (although she knows to look after them and has been well warned about the sun!).  

I'd also pass on my biggest lesson.  Depending on where you live and weather, don't overestimate how often you will be able to get out in the garden with a telescope.  Admittedly we're in Glasgow so weather is a big issue, but so are the locations of the planets.  In 3 years, although I've had plenty of fun in the middle of the night, there have probably only been half a dozen times when weather and planet positions have worked out at a sensible time for a young kid.  Even without a scope there are great ways to feed a kid's interest in space - Maddie & Greg's Space Week on Lets Go Live on YouTube, Cambridge Astronomy's talks on Youtube etc.  You can also pick up fragments of meteorites for under £10 which is a magical thing for kids to hold in their hands.

Whatever you decide to do - good luck with it.  My wee one is still going strong with her interest after 3 years and had a quick look tonight at a very small and very wobbly Mars tonight. 

Wise words, and a realistic approach..

I taught the  7-11 year old age range for many years, and would absolutely go down the cheap kid's binos route , children generally like to own and control something themselves. Imagine being given an Xmas gift, then told don't touch it, someone else must do all the setting up for you, and you can just look through it without having any input  ... Having their own instrument to role play with while someone gets a 'scope set up though, that would be less frustrating.

I have a relative whose first words were 'Mine !' (directed at his older sister who was about to try and play with the toy which was the subject of his second word 'tractor' !)

[Alexiaqq2]

Thanks everyone, you've given me so much to think about! One things decided though, I'll be sending the Meade back! I think if we end up getting a telescope (whether it be now or in the future) a tabletop with motorised tracking sounds like it would be better for us! 

Would the 10x50 be too big for a 7 year old? I'm not too worried about him not being careful with them, he can be pretty good about that sort of thing. Can the smaller binoculars really give them much to look at? I thought I read somewhere that 10x50 would be the minimum recommended for stargazing (Though honestly I've been reading so much about it all I can't even remember where I read that).

Thanks so much for the suggested youtube stuff, Girders... we're living in Dublin so light pollution is pretty bad. I definitely need more than stargazing alone to help expand his interest! 

Would there be other tabletop telescopes with a motorised mount for in and around the same price range that you guys would recommend? At this stage unless I can actually find something in stock that will deliver to Ireland in time I'll be sticking with a binocular set up and leave a telescope till another time.

[Scooot]

48 minutes ago, Alexiaqq2 said:

 

I thought I read somewhere that 10x50 would be the minimum recommended for stargazing 

No this isn’t really correct, it depends on what you prefer to look at. I have a pair of 10x50s and 8x42s but I haven’t used the 10x50s for a couple of years. I use the 8x42s a lot, I much prefer the wider field of view, it helps me to get a better perspective and my bearings in the sky. My 8x42s weigh 0.79kg which are probably a little heavier than the 10x50s you mention. I’m only guessing but I think something nearer to 0.5kg would be more comfortable for your son.

I think FOV and weight is more important for a 7 year old. You can see a lot more in the sky with any binoculars than the naked eye so I wouldn’t get too worried about magnification, something he can pick up and use comfortably is more important. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Scooot

[Alexiaqq2]

Thank you!

So now I'm thinking maybe we could get him both? A pair of 8x42s and maybe a cheaper tabletop telescope for now and as he gets older we can invest in a better scope.

Would something like this be of any use? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/celestron-firstscope-signature-series-moon-by-robert-reeves.html

[Scooot]

12 minutes ago, Alexiaqq2 said:

Thank you!

So now I'm thinking maybe we could get him both? A pair of 8x42s and maybe a cheaper tabletop telescope for now and as he gets older we can invest in a better scope.

Would something like this be of any use? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/celestron-firstscope-signature-series-moon-by-robert-reeves.html

That looks nice, will be able to see lots of stars and get a good view of the moon. Personally I’d rather have one of the tabletop scopes with 100mm aperture, that gives you 73% more light gathering than the above with only a 76mm aperture. The extra light gives you much more bang for the buck as the saying goes, and well worth it if possible.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Scooot

[Girders]

1 hour ago, Alexiaqq2 said:

Would there be other tabletop telescopes with a motorised mount for in and around the same price range that you guys would recommend? 

Unfortunately not.  It seems to be rather a niche product - possibly because it limits the weight to small scopes.  But if you have search on the forum you'll see there are quite a few of us very happy with it.  It comes in two versions a 114mm newtonian and a 90mm Maksutov - both have their merits.  But yes, stock before Christmas will definitely be an issue (as it will be for most good telescopes at the moment).  

I think the binoculars and cheaper tabletop is a good way to go if budget allows.  There are a couple of 76mm tabletop ones available - a skywatcher heritage one and the celestron one (which I think has a couple of variations).  I *think* I've seen people suggest the Skywatcher as the better option but not sure of the details (I think the fact it has a finderscope was a plus).  It's probably worth starting a new thread and asking for thoughts on the various 76mm options as you'll get input from people that wouldn't stop in to a thread on binoculars.  But don't let people push you into more expensive options if you've decided that a basic entry level would be what works best for you and your son - and I agree with Tiny Clanger on the 'ownership' side of things that it's probably important he feels it's "his".

[Alan64]

17 hours ago, Alexiaqq2 said:

Hi,

I'm looking for a little tripod advice! My 7 year old son is hoping for a telescope or binoculars for Christmas. It's all completely new to me and lots of reading online has led me to decide that binoculars are a better starting point. I'm currently hoping to get him the Opticron Adventurer 10x50 T WP as I'm hoping I've done my measurements right and the 53 min IDP will be small enough for him! Anyway my next problem is finding a tripod. I'm hoping not to spend a fortune if I don't have to but obviously don't want to end up with rubbish either. I've seen that height is important for binoculars but as he's only 7 does that change things or are most height adjustable anyway?

Before deciding on the binoculars we had purchased a telescope (unopened and we have plenty of time to return), a Meade Polaris 114 EQ. Would it be mad to consider holding on to this and using it's tripod for the binoculars with the idea that he would use the telescope as well down the line or would the tripod not be compatible? I suppose I'm wondering that if a tripod is going to cost me €100 or so, would it be more cost effective in the long run to fork out for telescope and binoculars now and only have one tripod? 

Thanks!

I have the Meade "Polaris" 114mm EQ kit...

The mount's saddle, where the telescope is attached, is a Vixen-type which is the common standard, for telescopes...

The saddle accepts a dove-tail bar...

In theory, the binoculars could be attached to a bar, then to the mount.  I've never done anything like that myself, but where there's a will there's a way.

Something like this might be attached to a bar... https://www.astroshop.eu/adaptors/omegon-tripod-adaptor-for-binoculars-metal-/p,4983

Now, don't hold me to that.  The EQ mount, an EQ-2, can be converted to a simpler alt-azimuth...

That might be a bit more user-friendly, but another solution would need to be found for attaching the binoculars to the bar, and to ensure that the binoculars are level; perhaps an L-shaped arm of sorts attached to the bar.  The slow-motion controls are fully functional in that mode as well.  The counterweight opposite the binoculars can be adjusted, and for a proper balance.  This is my smaller EQ-1 in an alt-azimuth mode, and with the counterweight...

The weight can be slid all the way over to the right for the binoculars. 

That's as far as my thinking takes me.  

[Tiny Clanger]

2 hours ago, Alexiaqq2 said:

Thank you!

So now I'm thinking maybe we could get him both? A pair of 8x42s and maybe a cheaper tabletop telescope for now and as he gets older we can invest in a better scope.

Would something like this be of any use? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/celestron-firstscope-signature-series-moon-by-robert-reeves.html

My thoughts would be that any binoculars (as long as they can be adjusted so the distance between the eyes is small enough for a child) will give at least a somewhat enhanced view : you probably know the first number (the 8 in 8x42s) is the magnification .Apart from showing a bit more detail when looking at the Moon, the main thing increased magnification is going to do is increase the jiggling around of the view when held by an excited small person, so low magnification is no bad thing. Greater magnification for handheld binoculars won't affect views of planets (which will always be little featureless blobs whatever the mag.) and stars (which will be bright points) .

The advantage binoculars give for stargazing are to do with the size of the front lens, the 42 in the 8x42, a 42mm diameter lens. It is bigger than your eye pupil, so improves your view of faint stars etc.However, as those front lenses get bigger, the whole instrument gets heavier. I have a pair of the opticron 10x50s ,  and they weigh just over 800g, whilst the 8x30s I inherited from my dad come in at 510g. The 8x30s are less good for looking at the night sky than the 10x50s, but they are significantly better than the naked eye !

I think that putting heavier binoculars on the meade tripod would be a faff, awkward for you to set up at a height where junior can see through ... you'd have to be sat or kneeling or on all fours . I suppose you could get the binoculars lined up at adult height (if the tripod is tall enough, I have no idea !) then have the little one stand on a box or something to see through it, but that sounds a dodgy dangerous thing to do in the dark ...

My suggestion : lightweight cheap binoculars for junior to feel he owns, light enough for independent use (including taking along on daytime walks to the park to spy on squirrels , ducks etc) .Don't worry too much about high quality, think about practicalities of holding, eye spacing and weight, discard any that boast about high magnification  then consider what would most please him as far as colour and design go . 

Then either hang on to the 'scope you already have ( Alan64 is obviously your best source of information on if that's a good idea) or think about one of the tabletop dob.s , where instead of the cost being spread between a 'looks the part' metal tripod and a complicated mount (head) and a telescope , most of your cash goes just to the telescope, with just a simple wood base. The firstscope you linked to has the drawback of no aiming device , so I'd be more inclined to go for one of the 'Heritage'series. which do have finders on them.

Whatever you do, make sure you can get an in stock telescope before you return the one you have : old Chinese proverb (which I've just made up)

Confucius he say, a telescope in the hand on Christmas day is superior to a better telescope on a container ship on its way from China ...

[Alexiaqq2]

Hahaha, my thoughts exactly! It doesn't need to be returned till January and was bought locally so we'll be hanging on will we're sure we have something. 

Lots more reading has me liking the look of the Heritage 100p which is, of course, out of stock everywhere. I like the Heritage 76 but also seems to be out of stock. I'll keep searching! I have found the celestron firstscope locally and I'm considering buying that while it's available while still looking for a heritage. If I can get one in time I can return the firstscope and if not I think I'd rather have paid less for a basic tabletop and upgrade soon if he keeps interested than have paid even more for a more complicated one that might not work out to be handy for him. At this rate I may have a collection of telescopes to return by Christmas.

As for binoculars, I'm definitely on the hunt for a small, cheap pair that he can hold and use easily. I was looking for 8x42 but finding it hard to find ones that have the IPD listed, is 8x30 going too small to still be of any use to him? I'm seeing a lot of kiddie binoculars that are even smaller (8x21 I think) which I'm guessing really won't show him much at all.

And thanks for all that Alan, I think we'll probably be returning the Polaris but I really appreciate you taking the time to explain about the tripod!

Edited November 29, 2020 by Alexiaqq2

[Scooot]

“8x30 going too small to still be of any use to him?”

Where do you live Alex, what’s your light pollution like? I also have a pair of 23°x 40 widebinos, so a bit brighter than 8x30s. I don’t use them much because I have to use them without my glasses and they’re not optically that good, but there’s plenty of stars to see and my light pollution is quite bad. I think 8 x30s will be an amazing improvement on the naked eye and your son’s eyes will be much better than mine.  plus you’ll have a larger aperture to look through with the scope if you need to. The advantage of the bins is you can just pick them up at the spur of the moment and have a quick look for a few minutes if you fancy it.

However I haven’t tried 8x30s myself.

[Alexiaqq2]

I'm in Dublin, not right in the city but I imagine light pollution is a problem here too!

[Scooot]

I still think they’d be fine for him but as I haven’t tried 8x30s myself I think you should get some other opinions. I had a quick look for 8x42s and found these, not sure of your budget.

https://www.wexphotovideo.com/opticron-adventurer-ii-wp-8x42-binoculars-1637111/

[Geoff Lister]

I use my binoculars with a monopod, either standing (with the leg almost fully extended), or sitting in a reclining chair (with the leg slightly retracted, and resting at an angle across my body). In both cases, the monopod takes most of the binocular's weight, and I use small body movements to scan an area of sky. If you use a tripod, conventionally, with all 3 legs extended, it is much more difficult to scan the skies; however, a tripod, with only one leg extended, and the other 2 tucked-in, usually makes a reasonable monopod for anyone except a standing tall adult.

The Skywatcher Virtuoso Dobsonian mount incorporates tracking; it holds the object in the field-of-view between changes of eyepieces and swapping observers; probably very useful for a 7-year-old. I have both the 90mm and 114mm versions and like both. They are very compact, relatively light, and are frugal on batteries whilst tracking. This is the 90mm on a patio table. The Optical tube is about 10cm in diameter, so you can get an idea of size from the photo. 2 of the feet are adjustable, to get it level (the little bubble level on the base works fine), and you just need to have it pointing (roughly) North at power-up, and the tracking gets going - no complicated alignment procedures.

 

I have one equatorial setup, the Celestron Astromaster 130EQ-MD, and it is certainly much more difficult to use for visual observation than the Altitude/Azimuth (up-down-left-right) mounts.

Geoff