Binoculars/telescope. Which one?

[Procione Stellare]

Hi everyone.

I'm really into astronomy and I want to buy my first telescope/binoculars with a 100 euro budget.

Even though I'd love to look at the Moon and planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Venus phases) closely, I'm more interested in other, more distant, space objects like stars (clusters), nebulae, Andromeda Galaxy, etc.

I've read a lot of guides and stuff and come to the conclusion that binoculars may be a better fit for me cause of their wider field of view and overall experience (looking with 2 eyes), but I'm concerned about the magnificaction. Would 10 or 20x be enough to actually see the Orion Nebula or Andromeda, for example?

 

What would you recommend?

telescopes: I found a Celestron 70 AZ Powerseeker (70dm/700fl) selling for 100 euro. Looking at photos taken with it, you can totally admire Jupiter bands and even get a glimpse of Saturn ring(s). 

Would this still be good for other objects (stars etc) though? 

 

binoculars: I found a Bresser Astro (Porro) 20x80 for 115 euro, an Omegon 15x70 for the same amount and an Olympus 10x50 for 60. I think the 20x80/15x70 would be the best for magnification, but I'm concerned about the fact that Bresser and other 20x80 binos of the same price range (Omegon, Celestron) seem to frequently have collimation issues and need to be returned (lots of Amazon reviews stating this). Also I'm worried my tripod (best designed for light weight DSLRs) won't be able to keep a 20x80 stable enough, and I'd end up spending more money on a new one.

 

Please help I really don't know what to pick! xD

Thank you!

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Procione Stellare

[banjaxed]

I f you read through the majority of questions about your subject it is a common opinion that the biggest aperture you can afford is the best way to go. You can’t trust the pictures that some telescope makers promise. look in the getting started observing section and read the ‘what can I expect to see’posts it will give you a good idea.

12 hours ago, Procione Stellare said:

Hi everyone.

I'm really into astronomy and I want to buy my first telescope/binoculars with a 100 euro budget.

Even though I'd love to look at the Moon and planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Venus phases) closely, I'm more interested in other, more distant, space objects like stars (clusters), nebulae, Andromeda Galaxy, etc.

I've read a lot of guides and stuff and come to the conclusion that binoculars may be a better fit for me cause of their wider field of view and overall experience (looking with 2 eyes), but I'm concerned about the magnificaction. Would 10 or 20x be enough to actually see the Orion Nebula or Andromeda, for example?

 

What would you recommend?

telescopes: I found a Celestron 70 AZ Powerseeker (70dm/700fl) selling for 100 euro. Looking at photos taken with it, you can totally admire Jupiter bands and even get a glimpse of Saturn ring(s). 

Would this still be good for other objects (stars etc) though? 

 

binoculars: I found a Bresser Astro (Porro) 20x80 for 115 euro, an Omegon 15x70 for the same amount and an Olympus 10x50 for 60. I think the 20x80/15x70 would be the best for magnification, but I'm concerned about the fact that Bresser and other 20x80 binos of the same price range (Omegon, Celestron) seem to frequently have collimation issues and need to be returned (lots of Amazon reviews stating this). Also I'm worried my tripod (best designed for light weight DSLRs) won't be able to keep a 20x80 stable enough, and I'd end up spending more money on a new one.

 

Please help I really don't know what to pick! xD

Thank you!

 

 

[PEMS]

I suggest getting the scope and ignoring the "photo's taken with it" bit. They very probably were not. It is the wrong scope for imaging.

If 70mm and 700mm then a 30mm plossl will give you around 23x in magnification and that delivers a field of  close to 2 degrees. Unfortunately a little too small to see all of the Andromeda galaxy in one go. You really need 3 degrees for that and you will find that 4 degrees is better. A 4 degree field comes out as around 12x and so a very long 58mm eyepiece. Which does not exist as well as I am aware.

Andromeda is often wanted and asked about but the size of it means that relatively few scopes will fit it all in in one view.  Using inexpensive eyepieces you need a magnification of around 12.5x for 4 degrees, and with the "long" 30mm plossl that means a scope focal length of 350-400mm maximum.

The advantage of a scope is you can purchase, and so change, eyepieces to get the best magnification and field to suit more objects. A set of 20x binoculars will not realistically show Jupitier's banding where in the scope indicated a 12mm eyepiece will. 12mm giving 58x. Advice here is do not go thinking that a 5mm will do more as the image will be bigger but very likely the image of Jupiter will be poor.

For 20x binoculars you will also need a tripod or monopod for stability. Small additional expense but an expense.

[Ricochet]

17 hours ago, Procione Stellare said:

telescopes: I found a Celestron 70 AZ Powerseeker (70dm/700fl) selling for 100 euro.

My advice would be that you don't buy any telescope from the "Powerseeker" line. Some models may be better than others but generally, they have issues due to the way they have all been built to a very cheap cost. With reference to the 70/700 you are looking at, you should also avoid any telescope where the mount has the additional bar pictured below between the mount and telescope, which is a clear indication that the mount isn't up to the job and compromises have been made.

 

With respect to your binocular choices I think two are worth consideration:

The Olympus DPS-1 10x50, if you plan to hand hold

The Omegon 15x70, if you plan to get a monopod for them.

Once you go up to 20x you're going to be at the stage where you need a good tripod, and a red dot finder + bracket in order to find anything in the sky. I had some Celestron Skymaster 25x70, and that was certainly the case there. The field is too small for the binocular to be its own finder and the magnification too great to be hand held.

I believe the Omegons are the same as the 15x70 Skymaster so unless the 15x hides the optical deficiencies of the 25x Skymaster, I would rate the Olympus DPS-1 as better both optically and mechanically so that is the one I would look at first. 

However, to me binoculars seem like a bit of a specialist instrument and personally, I would be disappointed with a pair of binoculars as a sole instrument. I think that a decent telescope would be a much better, and more satisfying, all round instrument. I would advise you to save up some more so that you can increase your budget in order to afford the Skywatcher Heritage 130p as a first instrument.

[jonathan]

I think for your budget you could either:

Go for a small telescope (70 or 80mm refractor, or something like the Heritage 130P

Go for medium or large binoculars (8x42, 10x50, or 15x70) with a sturdy metal L bracket for tripod mount (don't bother with a plastic L bracket, they're rubbish).  To get the best out of any binoculars you'll ideally attach them to a monopod or a tripod to get steady views, they can also be rested on the brush end of an upturned broom.

The views will be slightly different and it will depend on whether you prefer the '3D' stereo viewing of binoculars or the flatter '2D' single eye view through a telescope. 

Certainly you should be able to see much more of the moon and saturn, venus, and jupiter through a telescope as they're nice bright objects (use a moon filter for the moon and venus otherwise you'll be dazzled, consider wearing sunglasses if viewing the moon through binoculars).  NEVER look at or view the sun through a telescope or binoculars unless you have specialist solar filters firmly in place, best to avoid the sun completely as a beginner.

Binoculars and a star chart / planisphere are great for getting out quickly into your back yard or a dark site and learning the night sky, there are many interesting targets that you wouldn't need or want a telescope for (their field of view is often too narrow for such targets).  It's only when you start looking for the smaller, fainter objects that you need a telescope, and that can be a frustrating or disappointing experience if expectations are too high.

I started with a pair of 8x42 Bushnell Legend binoculars in my back garden, I still have them as my main spotter pair if I'm out with a telescope or sometimes I just sit out in a recliner with them.

Things to look for when buying binoculars:

• Fully multi-coated glass surfaces
• Porro Prism
• Bak-4 glass

While not absolutely necessary, they will provide a noticeable improvement to the views and are definitely worth the extra money.

When it comes to binocular collimation, it's a common problem with binoculars that have been tossed around in storage boxes at a warehouse, gone through the mail, and plopped through a letterbox or whatever.  I've had to collimate several pairs of binoculars, the larger the pair the more noticeable it will be.  Under the rubber armour near the top bulge there should be a couple of small screws, collimation is a matter of looking through each eyepiece and making sure they both line up exactly to a target (so the binoculars need to be held in place, e.g. on a tripod), the screws require tiny adjustments, but once set they should remain collimated (a dab of superglue or threadlock ensures this).  The rubber armour should lift up fairly easily from the eyepiece end to reveal the screws, it might be lightly glued in place, I've never had to glue mine back down though.  Collimation shouldn't put you off buying or using binoculars.

Note that nearby objects inside the field of vision can sometimes throw off your eyes' focus on the distant object, I find this especially when using large binoculars, it can be mistaken for collimation issues.

 

[Dr Strange]

There are passionate fans of both telescopes and binoculars (bino's). And there are some who enjoy both.

If you go the bino route then I would suggest getting a reclining lounge chair so you can lay back, prop your arms on the chair and hold the bino's up to your eyes. That will keep things steady.

As noted aperture is king. The bigger the scope the brighter the objects and they will be easier to see because of the increased brightness. With that in mind and your £100 budget my recommendation would be the Skywatcher Heritage 100p. It is 100mm in aperture which will be much bigger than any similar priced bino's so you will "see" more. It comes with two eyepieces and a red dot finder to help you star hop. It is here: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-100p-tabletop-dobsonian.html

I would recommend the Pocket Sky Atlas to go with it so you have a map of the sky. A more affordable and likely better in terms of ease of use unless you really want to learn to star hop manually alternative to star hopping would be to download SkySafari for your smartphone. You turn the phone sideways and rest it with the screen facing you if you were looking from the bottom of the scope upwards. Make sure the app is in night mode. And as you move the scope the phone moves with you. And you can use it in place of the red dot finder to help you find things. You want it in night mode to keep the night adaptation of your eyes. 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Dr Strange

[happy-kat]

Binoculars are always useful. Why not sign up for the free binocularsky emailed news letter and see what you might find in a month using binoculars. It's about identifying you found it not that we ever see much detail even with a telescope. I like 8*42 as the are used for birdwatching and astronomy.