HEQ5 Pro Polar Alignment - not getting the point of the dials!

[SiD the Turtle]

Apologies for yet another polar alignment thread! This is my first EQ mount and I'm struggling to understand the basics. I'm trying to follow guides from the likes of Astrobackyard and here: http://www.astro-baby.com/astrobaby/help/polar-aligning-the-skywatcher-heq5orion-sirius-mount/ but just don't get it!

So if I've got this right:

• Polaris is not precisely at the pole, it orbits in a circle that is represented by circular etching on the polar scope.
• Either through the hand controller or through an app Polaris should be somewhere on that circle, let's say 3 o'clock.
• I need to put Polaris at the 3 o'clock position on the etching.
• If I put it at say 6 o'clock, over the night Polaris will drift off as the circles are not aligned.

Right so far? If so, why do I need date and time dials? Surely I just need to spin the scope on its axis so 12 is at the top and move the scope and the altitude screws so that Polaris is in the right spot? Why do I need to spin the scope to the current date and time so the clock spins? I also guess I need to calibrate somewhat- when the date and time circles are lined up at 0, the clock is not 'the right way up'.

Any super beginner articles or videos appreciated. 

[Ronclarke]

I have owned a HEQ5 for 5 years and never once touched the dials!! 

Checkout polarscope downloads and you will get what it looks like in your

HEQ5 polarscope, move Polaris into position on the circle (doesn't have to be in the very small circle)

and you are Polar aligned. I did AP for 4 years without a problem!

Cheers

Ron

[CaptainShiznit]

The idea behind the clocks is accuracy I believe. If Polaris is supposed to be at 03:17, it needs to be at 03:17 when you polar align, not 03:16 or 03:18. If you use the clocks right you should get it pretty accurate but if you guess then (if you're imaging) you'll get trails. If you're not imaging then by eye will be close enough.

I really didn't like manual polar alignment when I was getting started. I got a good guide scope and camera, and SharpCap Pro (£10) and use the polar alignment feature on that. It's a revelation and takes a couple of minutes now.

[Spaced Out]

When I first started I didn't understand any of it but I followed a few youtube tutorials to get me up and running. This one was the simplest and most helpful for me in the early days.

 

[Ronclarke]

I now use an iPolar polar cam, as you say only a couple of minutes!!

Edited March 22, 2020 by Ronclarke

[SiD the Turtle]

Thanks all. Still not really getting the point of the whole clockface thing, but as you say it doesn't seem to be having an impact yet. Putting Polaris in the right place as per what the handset says (which agrees with mobile apps) seems to work, though not had enough chance to play with it to see how precise it is.

[Neil H]

Hi you need to calibrate the polar scope first , after its set up right you can use the hour and date rings , you rotate DA axis so the time and date line up this will then put small polar circle in the right position for you to line the mount to , but now days it's easy to look at a polar app which will show were Polaris should be , when I went out tonight Polaris was between 1/4 past and 20 past 12 which is top centre just like a clock face so I rotated the DA till the small circle was in the right position then adjusted the mount till Polaris was in the circle good enough for visual 

[SiD the Turtle]

Hmm this is the etching I have: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/653431-new-polar-scope-reticle/. There's no small circle in which to align Polaris. If I rotate the RA axis to the correct date and time, that clock face is at a seemingly random orientation. If I put Polaris at the right 'time' according to that orientation, I believe it's in the wrong place. If I simply place Polaris within the rings assuming 12 is 'up', I think it's correct.

[Neil H]

Hi I just looked on my polar alignment app it shows you to put Polaris in between the 2 lines on the circle 

The white dot is Polaris at 12.35 

[Guest]

Hi Sid,

I'm still doing the polar alignment using the handset and I'm still getting used to it. On the reticule the little table on the right I think is to adjust for long period drift of the north  pole. I ignore that for now.

You probably know this by now. You have to rotate the RA axis such that the 0 is at the top. Then use the adjustment bolts on the mount to get polaris at the position calculated by the handset. It's hard to get this really accurate. I try to get it between the two circles forming the circumference of the clock dial - at the right time position. 

When you press enter to accept it the handset tells you the hour angle of polaris. I don't do anything with that.

You only need very accurate polar alignment if you are doing long exposures with a camera. For visual observation getting it roughly right is good enough.

For visual observation it's good to do the 1,2 or 3 star alignment. This allows you to tell the scope which object you want to look at and get it to automatically go there.

If you go on to do 1,2 or 3 star alignment, at the end of alignment it gives two figures (MEL , MAZ) for the error in the polar axis alignment. I make a note of these to get an idea of how good it is.

Without any extra kit you can get a better polar alignment using the hand set. When you select alignment it gives the options for 1,2 or 3 star alignment but there is a fourth one which is called Polar Alignment. The terminology is a bit confusing but if you select that there is a procedure for making finer adjustments to the polar alignment. There are videos which describe how to do it. It's a bit of a faff but I've been doing it just to get used to the scope. You can repeat the procedure to get better and better polar alignment. I did this the other night. Here are the polar alignment errors I got. The figures are for MEL and MAZ in degrees/minutes/seconds

Initially   0/11/42 0/50/19

after one correction 0/9/57 0/26/01

after second correction 0/07/20 0/01/22

I'm sure other people get much better results than me.

There is another method called the drift method which I haven't tried yet but I'm told it's the best.

[Neil H]

The polar alignment app is good and it's only £3.09 

polaralinerpro

[jambouk]

If you mean the metal/plastic dials on the mount itself which can rotate and/or lock, then on the HEQ5 they are pointless, they do not help. Well the ones I've looked at are pointless. On my AZEQ6 the dials properly lock and can be used to set the hour angle when polar aligning, which is actually very helpful if you want a rough and ready polar alignment without getting on your knees. But the fact the circles on the HEQ5 don't fully lock, they are no use what so ever.

James

 

[malc-c]

If you are going to use the scope visually then using the older reticule will be close enough.  If you are imaging then the more precise the PA the better the images will be.

Yes you are correct in that the idea is to use the alt / az bols  to place polaris on the circle using it as a clock face.  For example let's assume for simplicity that Polaris is at the lowest point in its orbit around the NCP.  Looking through the polar scope use the alt / az bolts to place Polaris directly under the cross in the centre of the reticule.  Then using just the az bolts, turn them so that Polaris moves down to the point that it intersects the bottom of the circle on the reticle.   In this example the mount would then be polar aligned.  The fun comes when Polaris is at any other time other than 12, 3, 6 and 9 O'clock positions as you need to use both az and alt bolts to do the alignment.   If Polaris is say at 02:30 position, then, having centred the cross over Polaris, use the alt bolt to move Polaris up to the point where it intersects the circle (you move it up if the HA for Polaris is between 9 and 3 running through 12, down if between 3 and 9 running through 6).  Then you move the mount with both AZ and Alt bolts so that Polaris moves right and down until it is under the reticle on the 02:30 position.  If Polaris was at 10:30, then you would do the same, but move Polaris left and down until it was under 10:30 on the scale.  Naturally it's easy to polar align when polaris is at the 12, 3, 6 and 9 positions as you only need to move it up, right, down and left respectively.

Hope that helps explain the clock rational when polar aligning.