Venus

[mikeDnight]

On 28/02/2020 at 05:45, Barry-W-Fenner said:

I am in the same boat as you Stu, I can see the phase very clearly. No shading for me either. Perhaps the longer I observe this will become apparent?

 

Baz

Detail on Venus is very subtle Baz and can be overpowered by the planet's brilliance. One way to help to draw it out is by not directly looking for it. Instead, look for the most brilliant regions. Perhaps making a basic outline sketch will help. The cusps  (polar regions) are generally the brightest and can appear as silver polar caps, (one is often seen as being a little larger than the other). You might indicate these on your drawing as a dashed line. The limb of the planet is also brilliant silver and quite thin; however study it carefully for undulations, where the brilliance increases. Next look along the terminator, which isn't as sharp as the limb. Often you might detect brighter regions, sometimes small, sometimes larger,  just dipping into the terminator shadow. Looking lastly at the main surface, you may be able to see wraithlike whips of brighter areas. You can number the bright regions in order of brilliance from 1 to 5 if it helps. At this stage you'll have produced an outline of the bright areas, or if you prefer, an outline of the darker cloud tops. Next, just study the less bright clouds for any area that may be darker than the rest. Often there may be a darkening around the south cusp and sometimes another mid way along the terminator.  The North cusp too may have a dark region extending from the terminator. 

To reduce glare, try using high powers if seeing allows. It's often better to observe Venus against a twilight sky rather than a black sky. Wrattan 11 to 14 colour filters can help as can wrattan 80A it wrattan 21.

The attached sketch shows high power sketches of the planet. It's good to remember though, that the shading on the sketch is significantly darker than the visual appearance of the planet through the telescope.

Edited March 1, 2020 by mikeDnight

[Barry-W-Fenner]

2 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

Detail on Venus is very subtle Baz and can be overpowered by the planet's brilliance. One way to help to draw it out is by not directly looking for it. Instead, look for the most brilliant regions. Perhaps making a basic outline sketch will help. The cusps  (polar regions) are generally the brightest and can appear as silver polar caps, (one is often seen as being a little larger than the other). You might indicate these on your drawing as a dashed line. The limb of the planet is also brilliant silver and quite thin; however study it carefully for undulations, where the brilliance increases. Next look along the terminator, which isn't as sharp as the limb. Often you might detect brighter regions, sometimes small, sometimes larger,  just dipping into the terminator shadow. Looking lastly at the main surface, you may be able to see wraithlike whips of brighter areas. You can number the bright regions in order of brilliance from 1 to 5 if it helps. At this stage you'll have produced an outline of the bright areas, or if you prefer, an outline of the darker cloud tops. Next, just study the less bright clouds for any area that may be darker than the rest. Often there may be a darkening around the south cusp and sometimes another mid way along the terminator.  The North cusp too may have a dark region extending from the terminator. 

To reduce glare, try using high powers if seeing allows. It's often better to observe Venus against a twilight sky rather than a black sky. Wrattan 11 to 14 colour filters can help as can wrattan 80A it wrattan 21.

The attached sketch shows high power sketches of the planet. It's good to remember though, that the shading on the sketch is significantly darker than the visual appearance of the planet through the telescope.

Hi Mike,

Very informative write up. Thank you. I will take this information on board when next viewing!

Great sketch's by the way. I have noticed you were viewing at x463 mag. Was the planet clear at this power?

 

Baz

 

[mikeDnight]

2 hours ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Hi Mike,

Very informative write up. Thank you. I will take this information on board when next viewing!

Great sketch's by the way. I have noticed you were viewing at x463 mag. Was the planet clear at this power?

 

Baz

 

Hi Baz, 

At the time of the 463X observation I was testing a new Vixen 1.6mm High Resolution eyepiece. The view through my scope at the time was surprisingly good, but generally I don't use such powers for Venus. Venus is large as a target and 180X to 230X should be more than enough to produce a meaningful image scale. The two sketches were made only a few minutes apart, yet I feel there is enough difference in detail between the two powers to make experimentation worthwhile. At the same time the two sketches are so alike that it gives me confidence in the accuracy of both observations.

[R.frankish]

It's one of the brightest things in the sky or what ever I was looking at was lmao but it was small 

[Stu]

52 minutes ago, R.frankish said:

It's one of the brightest things in the sky or what ever I was looking at was lmao but it was small 

What's your maximum mag? It looks pretty clear to me at x200 and x300!

[Barry-W-Fenner]

3 hours ago, Stu said:

What's your maximum mag? It looks pretty clear to me at x200 and x300!

I have enjoyed viewing Venus at x240 and at x300 with the new 4mm SW Planetary eye piece. I am finding these powers to produce a nice view of the phase. I am yet to try see and detail but will continue to try as Venus is still getting higher in the sky.

 

[R.frankish]

4 hours ago, Stu said:

What's your maximum mag? It looks pretty clear to me at x200 and x300!

These are all I have so far 

[R.frankish]

On 01/03/2020 at 11:17, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Hi Mike,

Very informative write up. Thank you. I will take this information on board when next viewing!

Great sketch's by the way. I have noticed you were viewing at x463 mag. Was the planet clear at this power?

 

Baz

 

This is what I am getting 25mm 10mm 4mm I do see it a little better if I leave the top cover on and just take out the little hole 

[Barry-W-Fenner]

58 minutes ago, R.frankish said:

This is what I am getting 25mm 10mm 4mm I do see it a little better if I leave the top cover on and just take out the little hole 

Your 4mm looks to be showing Venus well. I don't know what scope you have but if you are getting x200 - x240 magnification with your 4mm I would suggest you are where you need to be in my opinion.

the glare you are seeing is normal for Venus, it is extremely bright. If you have a moon filter you can attach this to your eye piece and reduce the glare which should help to show the phase of Venus more clearly. Personally I have been using a visual polarising filter on Venus which you can adjust the contrast. This has helped considerably to remove the glare.

 

[Barry-W-Fenner]

To give you an idea this is what I see without a filter at x240 magnification. Just like in your image Venus is very bright which is typical of this planet.

With the filter applied I see the phase as similar to the above pics and sketches.

 

[R.frankish]

Just now, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Your 4mm looks to be showing Venus well. I don't know what scope you have but if you are getting x200 - x240 magnification with your 4mm I would suggest you are where you need to be in my opinion.

the glare you are seeing is normal for Venus, it is extremely bright. If you have a moon filter you can attach this to your eye piece and reduce the glare which should help to show the phase of Venus more clearly. Personally I have been using a visual polarising filter on Venus which you can adjust the contrast. This has helped considerably to remove the glare.

 

I have 10" dob an no filters but just taking of the little hole on the top of my scope to reduce the light pollution worked rather well and those pics was taken through a window aswell 

[Barry-W-Fenner]

13 minutes ago, R.frankish said:

I have 10" dob an no filters but just taking of the little hole on the top of my scope to reduce the light pollution worked rather well and those pics was taken through a window aswell 

Your 10" dob with the 4mm eye piece is plenty of power then. If you can aquire a filter your scope will give an excellent view of the phase 👍

[Barry-W-Fenner]

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/moon-neutral-density-filters/variable-polarising-moon-filter-archived.html

This is what I use on Venus and will be using on other planets also.

 

Or there is the moon filter option but I am unsure how effective that is on Venus

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/moon-neutral-density-filters/astro-essentials-nd96-0-9-1-25-moon-filter.html

 

Baz

[Stu]

16 minutes ago, R.frankish said:

those pics was taken through a window aswell 

That won't help, particularly with a bright object like Venus.

With my refractor I do get a fairly clean image with just a Neodymium filter especially in twilight. This image is a poor representation, the reality is alot cleaner and clearer.

[R.frankish]

I wish I had bought the synscan goto with it as I struggling to find other things eg ring nebula I have 4 apps o  me phone that show where the stuff is ment to be but just struggling to find them 

[Stu]

15 minutes ago, R.frankish said:

I wish I had bought the synscan goto with it as I struggling to find other things eg ring nebula I have 4 apps o  me phone that show where the stuff is ment to be but just struggling to find them 

The Ring Nebula isn't well placed until the early hours of the morning currently.

What finder/s are you using? A Telrad is really handy, especially when paired with a 9x50 RACI optical finder.

Have you tried for the Auriga Clusters yet, or the Double Cluster?

[R.frankish]

Yer I only had hour and half sleep today was up all last night waiting for Jupiter and Saturn but one of the neighbours has a line of conifer trees about 1000 ft hight or that was what it seemed this morning blocking all the views almost went n cut em down lmao 

[R.frankish]

I only have the finder scope that comes with the skywatcher 10" dob

[Barry-W-Fenner]

I have been out viewing for a bit and can confirm Venus is much improved with a moon filter. The glare is considerably reduced. It's not as effective as the polarising filter but does do the job.

[Barry-W-Fenner]

1 hour ago, R.frankish said:

I wish I had bought the synscan goto with it as I struggling to find other things eg ring nebula I have 4 apps o  me phone that show where the stuff is ment to be but just struggling to find them 

You will get there in time. As I am finding out patience and a good sky go a long way in this hobby.

The ring nebula is not to bad to find in lyra but as Stu mentioned its not greatly positioned currently. It is more of a summer target.  

When I started I managed to find a couple of tough nebula such as the blue snowball and Eskimo nebula. However I found that the time it took to find these in light polluted sky's Brough much frustration. I have since decided to look for clusters and been splitting starts. I am starting to get a better understanding of the sky now and will look to find the more challenging nebula when at a much better location.

[R.frankish]

1 hour ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

You will get there in time. As I am finding out patience and a good sky go a long way in this hobby.

The ring nebula is not to bad to find in lyra but as Stu mentioned its not greatly positioned currently. It is more of a summer target.  

When I started I managed to find a couple of tough nebula such as the blue snowball and Eskimo nebula. However I found that the time it took to find these in light polluted sky's Brough much frustration. I have since decided to look for clusters and been splitting starts. I am starting to get a better understanding of the sky now and will look to find the more challenging nebula when at a much better location.

The only nebula I have seen is Orion just wish I could see the colour in it instead of just gray I just think I need to set the Hubble up in me back garden lmao and going to invest in some filters and then a new mount just been out in garden looking for more things in this pic there is a small smudge and not sure what it is 

[R.frankish]

I was looking in this area for the m85 

[RT65CB-SWL]

2 hours ago, R.frankish said:

The only nebula I have seen is Orion just wish I could see the colour in it instead of just gray I just think I need to set the Hubble up in me back garden lmao and going to invest in some filters and then a new mount just been out in garden looking for more things in this pic there is a small smudge and not sure what it is 

 

Colour filters will not work for visual of DSO's. The human eye has not evolved for low-light vision. The Andromeda Galaxy [M31] & Ring Nebula [M57], (and other 'fuzzy' DSO's), appear as fifty shades of grey visually

For imaging you will/may need dedicated astro-imaging/astro-photography LRGB or RGB filters to bring out the colours. Other filters you may need are: Infra Red, H-alpha, O-lll, S-ll, UHC, to enhance detail/structure.

Please feel free to amend/correct/comment if I am incorrect.   

Edited March 3, 2020 by Philip R

[Stu]

7 hours ago, R.frankish said:

The only nebula I have seen is Orion just wish I could see the colour in it instead of just gray I just think I need to set the Hubble up in me back garden lmao and going to invest in some filters and then a new mount just been out in garden looking for more things in this pic there is a small smudge and not sure what it is 

Very hard to tell what that is from the image. As said, I would start with some of the open clusters in Auriga and the Double Cluster to get your eye in. They are easier, and less readily washed out by LP than galaxies or nebula.

Generally no colours will be seen, although I do see a faint green hue to M42 in most scopes, even my 4".

A UHC and/or OIII filter can help with nebulae contrast, but dark skies are the only answer for galaxies I'm afraid.

Have a try for the Eskimo nebula in Gemini, that's fairly easy to find. Small but relatively bright.

[Stu]

Oh, and if you want colour then a relatively quick shot, 2 seconds or so with a decent smartphone should show it to you. This was just through a 63mm refractor so a 250 will be much better.