Synscan Issues (too many cooks?)

[JonCarleton]

I just purchased a SkyWatcher 10" Dobsonian with the stock SynScan GOTO setup.  It has been fighting me from the outset, and is winning most of the battles so far.  Admittedly, I may have added more complications to the issues.

The synscan hand controller is slow and clunky and doesn't give as many options for alignment as the Android app, So, I have been starting the hand unit, getting through the initialization and telling it not to do the alignment.  Then I connect to the WiFi with the app and complete the alignment.  So far, so good.

Just when I was getting this down, I found KStars.  So, I built a remote using a pi 4B and the INDI drivers and configured KStars on my desktop.   All the devices are running Ubuntu or Android.  I seem to have trouble the moment I plug in the USB cable to the hand controller.  It would be nice I could connect  the remote via WiFi so I could use network tools to see what is going on, but I don't see how that could happen presently.  Please correct me if I am mistaken about making the remote to synscan connection via WiFi.  When I connect the USB, Sometimes KStars says I need to align and try again.  Sometimes on the Android app, some of the pointing buttons stop working.  Telescope control from either of the three devices is unreliable.

I'm guessing I have too many cooks.  Tonight's plan is to try dropping the Android app from the mix and doing the alignment from the hand controller then operating KStars.  I have the following questions:

1.  Should I plug in the USB before I power things up?  Does it matter?

2. I notice there is a Control Drives with PC option on the hand controller.  When select it, the INDI synscan driver loses the ability to move the scope.  Is there another direct connect driver I should use to cut the synscan mechanism out of the equation?

3.  The complete questions is probably, "What is the standard setup sequence and connectivity for this equipment and normal order of operations for startup?"

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by JonCarleton

[JonCarleton]

Ok, apparently, plugging in the USB port to the hand unit while the synscan hand unit is in control causes things to go randomly wonky.  This happens if you plug it in before power-up or after initialization.  My next guess is to try switching the hand unit to "PC control" afer initialization and alignment and then pluging in the USB cable and starting indiserver.  I seem to recall that it didn't connect with the INDI drivers when I previously tried the setting....but perhaps I am mistaken.

Also...anyone have any luck with a SVBONY  SV105  CCD?  I can get it to work in daylight looking at trees a half mile away, but I can't seem to get it to focus on the moon or stars.  Just a blurry image.

[Peter77]

5 hours ago, JonCarleton said:

Ok, apparently, plugging in the USB port to the hand unit while the synscan hand unit is in control causes things to go randomly wonky.  This happens if you plug it in before power-up or after initialization.  My next guess is to try switching the hand unit to "PC control" afer initialization and alignment and then pluging in the USB cable and starting indiserver.  I seem to recall that it didn't connect with the INDI drivers when I previously tried the setting....but perhaps I am mistaken.

Also...anyone have any luck with a SVBONY  SV105  CCD?  I can get it to work in daylight looking at trees a half mile away, but I can't seem to get it to focus on the moon or stars.  Just a blurry image.

Don't have much answers to your questions, but checked the camera and read some reviews on Amazon. Some mentioned that it took some fiddling to get to work, and some also mentioned, like you that they were able to focus on daytime terrestrial targets, but found it very difficult to focus on moon/planets. While others don't mention this.

 

Not sure if it is related to focal length? Specs/info mention that it is best suited for FL between 4-800 mm. Having not owned a camera like this, I am not sure how this relates, but thought it worth mentioning.

 

Reg. the setup/alignment, something seems to be not right. I've had evenings were just nothing seems to work, wrong stars showing up or scope slewing completely off for alignmentstars. Only to find that I've entered date in wrong format, dd/mm/yy instead of thr correct (but to me, being swedish, not intuitive) mm/dd/yy format. 

You seem fairly technical and knowledgeable, but mistakes happen to the best of us (it happened to me, haha) so just thought I'd mention this.

 

Again, sorry for not being able to straighten your problems out, but just thought that some input is better than none.

 

Hope you get it to work. It is quite a lightbucket you have

[david_taurus83]

Does Kstars/INDI support control of a dobsonian goto setup?

[JonCarleton]

OK....

Camera on hold until I get the pointing figured out.  It is a cheap camera, and I may just have to replace it.

On both Stellarium and Kstars I can get the INDI synscan driver to move the scope around.  I can point, for example to Polaris and and fire it up (no alignment) and it is happy with being at Polaris.  I tell it to go to Capella, and it goes...the WRONG WAY...but more or less the right distance.  The displays both show that it went to Capella...but it didn't. Both Kstars and Stellarium have the same issue.  However, if I tell it to go back to Polaris, it goes happily back reasonably accurately.  I also find that I can't turn on tracking on the INDI control panel.  I click it on and it clicks itself off again.

I'm going to align it again with the handset and see if that makes any difference, but I don't have high hopes.  CLEARLY, I have something key configured wrong.  Connectivity seems  happily stable without the Android app peeking in via WiFi.

Thank you for your kind assistance.  I'm new to this equipment, but I used to be a fair programmer.  I am REALLY enjoying the scope...but these little technical glitches bug me.  I feel certain there is something I have configured wrong, as you mentioned.

 

[david_taurus83]

In the INDI control panel, what mount have you selected?

[JonCarleton]

I did not select a mount.  However, it reads the Synscan firmware version correctly (4.390400) , says  Model = Unknown model, Goto = 0,  Pointing = --  and Tracking Mode = Alt/Az  in  Mount Information on  the INDI Control Panel.  This, apparently from the connection startup query.  Frankly, I can't see how to change it.  The mount is a Dobsonian, so Alt/Az seems right,  The Goto = 0 seems odd.

Something is definitely backwards or off somehow.  I've triple checked the LatLons and made sure I wasn't getting a default E Longitude.   That got me once when I was just using the handset.

Doing a full alignment did no good at all.  It still skews the wrong way, although Stellarium shows the target icon going to the right place...even though the scope goes elsewhere.

[cletrac1922]

Jon

First of all welcome from Land Down Under

Lets go back to basics, without WiFi or any other connection

I also have the SynScan WiFi adapter, and use with no issues

Very helpful when using with my SolarMax 11 on my EQ5pro mount solar viewing mode

When you setting up your Dob, you putting base on a ground sheet to stop moisture in the ground damaging the chipboard construction

Finder scope aligned to primary mirror, do this in day time, when can make out an object about 2 kms away, such as a tree, phone tower

Step 1

U have the base facing north, using a compass to allow for magnetic variation

Where I am magnet variation is 12deg east

Step 2

Power up the SynScan controller

What are you using as power source

I use a car jump start battery

Step 3

Put in your GPS location, remembering Northern Hemisphere is + and Southern Hemisphere is -, Date and time

Ignore daylight saving settings, as our solar system does not know about that

Step 4

Do a two star alignment

This time of your I use Sirius and Canopus, and save 

Step 5

Search Objects, and first option select the moon, and scope should slew to it, then use up down, left right buttons on medium speed to fine tune, and should be visible in eyepiece and finderscope 

Step 6

Search for other objects, currently we have Orion overhead, and should be able to see Orion Nebula

Step 7

Shut down

If you intend to use same location in your backyard to observe from, then select home, and the Dob with return to your start point

Next time you power up, GPS setting will be saved in SynScan controller, and just need to do date adjustment, and verify your two star alignment

 

Now you can try using the WiFi adapter with the SynScan App

 

Hope have been of assistance

John

 

 

 

[david_taurus83]

Seems to me that the mount works as it should with the handset and the Synscan app. You appear to be having issues with Kstars so I would question the compatibility in the first place? You should also ask on the INDI forum as you will probably get a better answer there.

https://indilib.org/forum.html

[JOC]

Hi, I have no idea what KStars is, but I have the official SynScan wifi controller and the official partner App on my Android mobile phone.  With this combination it is pretty seamless to get the connections to work, but you do obviously have to be within Wifi range.  Maybe go back to basics and try just the same combination as I'm running and I don't think you will have any issues.

[JonCarleton]

Thank you all for your kind replies.  I will try to address each of them in this reply.

-----------------------------

John:
Thanks for the welcome.  I will address your steps as follows:
My general setup is on a deck, isolated from the ground and my first steps are to level the base with shims and set the home position as True North and level.  This, after aligning the mirrors.  My finderscope alignment is generally done manually with the moon.
Step 1
I am a pilot and use the current VFR Sectional Chart for magnetic variation, as the charts are current and variation changes.
Step 2
I am using a 30A filtered 12V DC power supply that I built for this purpose.
Step 3
My LatLons come from a portable navigation device and are exact for my deck location.  I am used to navigating with LatLons. I am careful to match the format of both date and time and we are presently not in DST.
Step 4
I usually use the handset 2 star.  Presently, I use Capella and Rigel
Step 5
I have had no issue locating even difficult objects with the handset or the WiFi app.  That is not my goal.
Step 6 & Step 7
Not applicable
My issue is operation using software such as KStars or Stellarium.  There is conflict.

You raise some very good points and I thank you for your post.

David:

I think you are correct. This seems an INDI issue.  I can now get the scope to operate reliably, but incorrectly through KStars or Stellarium.  Interestingly, it operates differently with each.  Stellarium shows the telescope marker going to the proper place and sends the scope in the opposite direction.  KStars shows the telescope marker going the wrong way along with the scope.  Same INDI driver.
Or it may be something incompatible about the Dobsonian mount versus a traditional Alt/Az setup.

Thank you for the suggestion of INDI forum.

JOC:

Thank you for your post.  I have no issue with using the stock SynScan hand control or the Android app or a combination of the two for scope control.  However, my goal is to operate the scope from inside the house using a USB camera as an eyepiece.  This requires interoperability with KStars, Stellarium or some software like that.

--------------------------

I appreciate all your input and look forward to contributing to this forum as I become able.

Edited January 30, 2020 by JonCarleton

[JOC]

9 minutes ago, JonCarleton said:

However, my goal is to operate the scope from inside the house using a USB camera as an eyepiece.  This requires interoperability with KStars, Stellarium or some software like that.

Sounds like pure luxury to me - go for it, I hope you get it sorted 😄

[JonCarleton]

********** SUCCESS!! **********

I started from scratch.  I deleted all the config files in the raspberry pi  (remote telescope controller) in  my  /home/jon/.indi folder.  I did not start indiserver.   I did not use the Synscan Android app at all for this process.

First, I turned on the Synscan with the telescope in park position (level and North-facing).  Then, I went through the initialization process with extreme care to make sure time, date and  LatLons were correct.  My hand unit ALWAYS wants to default to an East Longitude, which is incorrect for me.  Then I did a 2 star alignment.

Next I plugged the USB cable from the pi into the  Synscan hand unit and started indiserver on the pi.  No problems.

Then, I ran Stellarium on my desktop, configured the scope in Telescope Control and connected the mount.  IT WORKED!  I disconnected the mount in Stellarium and  exited, leaving indiserver on the remote pi running.

Finally, I started KStars and told Ekos to start the connection to INDI.  Everything looked good.  I ran the INDI Control Panel and all looked good.  I tried moving around with the star map and IT ALSO WORKED!  I would describe my happy dance, but I'm pretty old and you may simply assume it would be really embarrassing if seen.

CONCLUSIONS (how I originally messed up):

The INDI log shows updates from KStars for vital data, such as LatLons, Time and Date.  I can only assume these items like to be held onto by the respective controllers.  Therefore, having 3 (Synscan Handheld, KStars/Stellarium, Synscan App) all connected simultaneously likely caused a serious  "Who's in charge?" issue.  No doubt, this could have put data in places I didn't check.  Clearing out all the data (starting over) and using the minimum hardware for the job at hand seemed to be the answer.  I am not going to test this, but I feel certain that I can screw it up again if I activate the Synscan WiFi  App while all this other stuff is in play.  To be clear, I like the Synscan WiFi app and it works well in lieu of the hand unit as long as there is no third party controller present.

NOW...to figure out the camera (SVBONY SV105).  The likelihood is that it is just a lousy CCD.  I'll look around and see if anyone came up with a method to adress the focus issues.  I know there are some YouTube videos using the SV105 that aren't completely terrible.  That said, does anyone have a CCD recommendation that falls in the "best bang for the buck" category?

Edited January 30, 2020 by JonCarleton

[JonCarleton]

********** SUCCESS II ********** (the Saga continues)

I got the SVBONY SV105 working.  It is truly a pain to focus and you really have to mess with gain, brightness, hue and saturation to get an image, but I suppose it works OK for the price.  I cheated a bit.  I was able to get it to focus on near objects in full daylight, and the moon was up during the day today, so I took advantage.  Once I got the focus right and the image mostly right, I noticed that it was almost a 1/4" off from where my eyepieces normally focus.  Here is a moonshot taken with the SV105 and VLC under linux ubuntu on the raspberry pi.  It is an unmodified raw single-shot image.  I stilll have to work on getting it to play well with INDI, but I don't think that will be difficult now I know it can be done.

This image was taken from my kitchen table with a laptop talking to the pi on the scope outside over WiFi.  So, I suppose my goal has been managed.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by JonCarleton