Dobson 10" set.

[Maniek]

To be honest, my belief in the Perfect choice has been a Little shaken🙄. You May actually need at look at more affordable options. I don't know anymore... 

Yesterday I read a lot about ES92 12 and 17mm for the price of the one Ethos. It looks like they are collecting great reviews. Advise the newcomer but honestly because I have already stupid😫... 

[John]

I have the ES 17 92 and until recently the ES 12 92. They are great eyepieces for sure. I didn't get on with the eye relief of the 12mm so that has moved on now. I still have the 17mm, for now. They are the best that ES has produced in my view but they don't actually better the Ethos apart from eye relief as far as I can see.

There is always something a touch better than you and I have somewhere out there or about to be launched. Usually the cost is very high and availability very low and the actual differences in performance subtle nuances or ergonomic preferences.

Also, eyepiece choice is very personal so finding 100% concensus on "the best" just does not happen in my experience

 

[Maniek]

31 minut temu John powiedział:

Mam ES 17 92, a do niedawna ES 12 92. Są to na pewno świetne okulary. Nie dostałem odstępu 12 mm, więc teraz się zmieniłem. Na razie mam jeszcze 17 mm. Moim zdaniem są jednymi z najlepszych, jakie opracował ES, ale tak naprawdę, o ile widzę, nie poprawiam Etosu poza ulgą wzrokową.

Zawsze jest coś lepszego niż ty, a ja mam gdzieś tam lub w najbliższej przyszłości. Zwykle koszt jest bardzo wysoki, a dostępność bardzo niska, a rzeczywiste różnice w wydajności subtelne niuanse lub ergonomiczne preferencje.

Ponadto wybór okularów jest bardzo osobisty, więc należy 100% koncentracji na „najlepszych” po prostu nie zdarza się z mojego doświadczenia

 

Just buy one and enjoy the views. 

[Louis D]

Since it hasn't been brought up before, I have to ask, do you have significant astigmatism in your observing eye?  By significant, I generally mean a cylinder (CYL) correction for your eyeglasses of 1.0 diopters or more.  If so, you'll probably want to either observe with eyeglasses, toric contacts, or use TV Dioptrx correctors on each eyepiece.  I have 2.0 diopters of astigmatism in my observing eye, so even at best focus, stars are a spiky mess for me at all but the highest powers where a small exit pupil masks the astigmatism in my eye.  As a result, I almost always have to observe with astigmatism correction.  I prefer to wear distance corrected eyeglasses so I can look back and forth at the sky and eyepiece without having to futz with taking them on and off.  This means I need eyepieces with at least 16mm of usable eye relief, which generally equates to 20mm+ of claimed eye relief, to fit my glasses in between my face and the eyepiece.

This brings me around to the ES-92 versus Ethos choice.  If you don't need eyeglasses, the Ethos is probably the right choice because they're wider in AFOV, smaller, and lighter.  If you need wear glasses, the ES-92 is pretty much you're only hyper-wide choice.  Luckily, they're very good.  Some folks actually prefer the presentation of the ES-92 over the Ethos despite not wearing eyeglasses because you don't have to bury your eye in the eye cup to take in the entire view, so it's more relaxing.  My other long eye relief choices include Pentax XL and XW, Delos, Morpheus, APM UFF, Meade HD-60, Vixen LV, Nagler T4, AstroTech AF70, 40mm Meade 5000 SWA, and 30mm ES-82 mushroom-top eyepieces.

[jetstream]

@Maniek the 20mm Lunt HDC is a very worthy contender in this focal length and compares nicely to the 21E...

[John]

40 minutes ago, jetstream said:

@Maniek the 20mm Lunt HDC is a very worthy contender in this focal length and compares nicely to the 21E...

Thats the same eyepiece as the APM XWA 20mm isn't it Gerry ?

[jetstream]

9 minutes ago, John said:

Thats the same eyepiece as the APM XWA 20mm isn't it Gerry ?

Yes, I believe it is John and I think the Myriad is a variant as well? with a bit different ergos. I got my HDC from Wolfi at TS in Germany. I would really like to compare the 13mm XWA with my other EP's ie the Doc.

 

[Maniek]

I have good eyesight and I don't Wear glasses. But... 

The set has two EP. Tiny Plossl 9mm. It's ergonomics is a mistake, a Tiny Lens in which you need to Press the eye. It's no good. The other is 30mm Erfle and that suits me. Big Lens and comfortable ER. That's I reject ES100. Ethos, ES92, Apm remain, because Wide field for DSO is a condition. Apm as I read collets good reviews but I Just don't like it (rubbish plastics). It May be silly but it is. Ethos vs ES92 would be my choice... 

Ethos

+ excellent quality, value

+ accept ergonomics

+ weight

- high price

ES92

+ acceptable quality

+ excellent ergonomics

+ good price

- high weight

In order not complicate myself with these two EPs I will choose. 

[Rob Sellent]

Just to add to the complication (bear in mind I do not own either type, so just going on numbers)...

• Weight - + 1 for Ethos
• Eye relief - + 1 for ES92
• On axis - both
• Contrast - I've always been a sucker for TV's field fo view contrast, so I'm guessing + 1 for Ethos
• Re-sale - if you bought secondhand and resold, you really wouldn't lose out either way.
• Focal Lengths - +1 for Ethos (more choice)

 

[Maniek]

I would add to that. 

My heart:

+ for Ethos 😁

[Stardust1]

If you want to stay with Ethos, I would add a lower power eyepiece to your list. Seeing the moon in a low power eyepiece is something to behold. It's stunning seeing small bright moon floating in space.There are some beautiful DS objects in low power eyepiece as well.

My preference would be choosing the Ethos 21 over the 17. The 17 is close to 13. Or add 31 Nagler to the list. I have Nikon HW 17 and 13 Ehtos, and can say these two are close, even in my 400/2000 dobson.

I for one have eyepieces from TeleVue, Nikon, Pentax, Vixen, Tak, Docter (soon to be), Zeiss. Love them all, each of these companies have some nice eyepieces.

The Nikon NAV HW 17 gets more praises then the Ethos 17. The Docter 12.5 gets also more praises then Delos or Ethos. There are also a lot of happy users of Pentax XW 30 and 40. But I wouldn't mind having a box of Ethos only. But I'm glad that there more vendors out there. Good luck!

Edited December 20, 2019 by Stardust1

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, Stardust1 said:

I have Nikon HW 17

Me too-do you know how to make it work with a Paracor II? I removed the sleeve from the bottom and the whole thing is so long...

[Stardust1]

Gerry, I haven't used the Nikon with a Paracor in the dob. I might look for a Paracor soon (as soon as I recoup from the docter 😉). 

Seeing Orion nebula at a dark site with the Nikon HW 17 in a 16" (F/5) dob is a unforgettable experience. A friend of mine was peaking through the Nikon, the only think that I heard from him is, I wan't one 😁

[jetstream]

3 hours ago, Stardust1 said:

Gerry, I haven't used the Nikon with a Paracor in the dob. I might look for a Paracor soon (as soon as I recoup from the docter 😉). 

Seeing Orion nebula at a dark site with the Nikon HW 17 in a 16" (F/5) dob is a unforgettable experience. A friend of mine was peaking through the Nikon, the only think that I heard from him is, I wan't one 😁

Absolutely agree on the Nikon 17 HW- for me the Swan nebula that this eyepiece presented in the 24" f4.1 (no PCII) is burned into my brain. The pillars of creation were easily seen in the Eagle neb too as dark lanes.

 

[Maniek]

Hello. A New eyepiece has been with me for some Time. After a long reflection I bought the ES 14mm 100 degree. What can I say... Excellent EP! 😍 Great color saturation, endless field. A great decision. I also have Morpheus 9mm and I'm a bit disappointed with it. It's a cold and tight compared to ES😏. I use it for the moon and my question is Born here. I like the Wide view of the lunar and I have to choose Nagler 5mm t6 vs Delo 4,5. However, I found report with a difficult eye placement on Delo. Can you respond to that? Would t6 be better on the planet, moon? 

[John]

Once you have the eye cup in the correct position for you, the Delos eyepieces are easy and comfortable to use. Similarly the Pentax XW's.

The Nagler 5mm is an excellent eyepiece with a wider field of view than the Morpheus or the Delos but it's eye relief is just 12mm which some find tight.

My personal favourite moon eyepiece when using my 12 inch dobsonian is the 5mm Pentax XW. I would think that the 4.5mm Delos would be very similar. I used to have all the Nagler T6's including the 5mm and liked them but I liked the Pentax XW's even more, I was surprised to find. If I was buying today I would strongly consider the Morpheus 4.5mm as well.

Perhaps you need to give your 9mm Morpheus a bit more time ?

 

 

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, Maniek said:

I also have Morpheus 9mm and I'm a bit disappointed with it. It's a cold and tight compared to ES😏.

I get the same feeling moving from the 17mm ES-92 to the 14mm Morpheus to the 12mm ES-92 power progression.  Despite the 76 degree field, the Morpheus still feels constrictive in comparison to the two ES-92s.

[Maniek]

100 degree really pulled me in. I would rather go with the whole serię only to DSO. I have repeatedly compared Morpheus with ES, and although it is a completely different power, I prefer the saturation of ES colors to the faded stars of Morpheus. For example, in the double Perseus  cluster there are several characteristic orange stars. They are wonderful in ES. With Morpheus this Orange is not So obvious. On the other hand, this coolness of Baader does AN excellent job on the Moon. There is a lot of talk about ugly edge brightening in 4,5mm. Considering that the price of Baader is 75% Delo/t6/XW it May be worth playing extra for flawless quality...