Something odd happening 071

[Adam J]

4 hours ago, symmetal said:

Yes, that's much better focus Alan. I did have to replace the desiccant tablets in my new 071 after only a few nights testing when taking flats showed obvious icing on the sensor. It wasn't obvious on my previous night test images but maybe was on the verge of it. Maybe that batch of 071 camera had faulty or damp tablets.

Alan

In respect to a single batch of bad cameras I feel this is just par for the course with the ASI071mc pro I think that on this sensor the QHY version is superior, it never experiences these issues.  In the end the reason is that for such a large sensor its not appropriate to place it so close to the optical window.

Cooling slower is the best bet, if that does not work then you will want to re-charge the desiccant as mentioned above.

Adam

Edited September 26, 2019 by Adam J

[alan potts]

7 hours ago, Adam J said:

In respect to a single batch of bad cameras I feel this is just par for the course with the ASI071mc pro I think that on this sensor the QHY version is superior, it never experiences these issues.  In the end the reason is that for such a large sensor its not appropriate to place it so close to the optical window.

Cooling slower is the best bet, if that does not work then you will want to re-charge the desiccant as mentioned above.

Adam

Can you tell me what is involved in re-charge of this desiccant tablet, the dam thing isn't a month old, humidity is fairly low here, we have just come through over 45 days without rain and 43 wall to wall sun, don't think even on a night humidity got above 50% and in the day 30%. Any pointers on the cooling steps Adam?

Alan

[alan potts]

7 hours ago, symmetal said:

Yes, that's much better focus Alan. I did have to replace the desiccant tablets in my new 071 after only a few nights testing when taking flats showed obvious icing on the sensor. It wasn't obvious on my previous night test images but maybe was on the verge of it. Maybe that batch of 071 camera had faulty or damp tablets.

Alan

Rather disappointed in this less than a month and something that could be wrong, how does one re-charge this tablet Alan?

Alan

[Adam J]

7 hours ago, alan potts said:

Can you tell me what is involved in re-charge of this desiccant tablet, the dam thing isn't a month old, humidity is fairly low here, we have just come through over 45 days without rain and 43 wall to wall sun, don't think even on a night humidity got above 50% and in the day 30%. Any pointers on the cooling steps Adam?

Alan

First things first I would cool the camera while observing the sensor (dont do it in the house do it outside) if it fogs up then you will see it happen.  If it happens then try cooling slower using the settings in APP as larger sensors like this one do in general need to be cooled slower anyway. Dont go messing with the descant until you have tried this. 

If those things do not help then its time to try recharging the desiccant. From that point on I have no practical experiance as my ASI1600mm pro has never required this. I know that there is a round black sticker on the side of the camera and that if you remove it you will find a screw cap and that the desicant tablets are here. Tape over the hole while the camera is left open. 

Its then a matter of drying them on a clean baking tray in the oven for a few hours. Dont try to microwave them. I would try a temperature of about 120 degrees Celsius.  

Adam

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Adam J

[alan potts]

22 minutes ago, Adam J said:

First things first I would cool the camera while observing the sensor (dont do it in the house do it outside) if it fogs up then you will see it happen.  If it happens then try cooling slower using the settings in APP as larger sensors like this one do in general need to be cooled slower anyway. Dont go messing with the descant until you have tried this. 

If those things do not help then its time to try recharging the desiccant. From that point on I have no practical experiance as my ASI1600mm pro has never required this. I know that there is a round black sticker on the side of the camera and that if you remove it you will find a screw cap and that the desicant tablets are here. Tape over the hole while the camera is left open. 

Its then a matter of drying them on a clean baking tray in the oven for a few hours. Dont try to microwave them. I would try a temperature of about 120 degrees Celsius.  

Adam

 

Thanks for that Adam. I was just using the default in APT maybe bigger gaps between cooling sectors will help too. I have the CEM 60 coming either tomorrow or Monday so I will be taking the set-up apart and that would seem like a good time to start trying things, I am in hospital very soon for an operation so hopefully I can get some results beforehand. If I am having to take things apart when it is so new I find that wholly unacceptable, these thing should work for what we pay, I know it's not a 3 grands plus camera but I think you see my point. Oddly I am beginning to wish I had gone mono already, he said having just got a 183MC pro as well, what issues will that cause, the Canon was so simple.

Alan 

[jimjam11]

If you are having trouble with focus/cooling you should be able to test this in the daytime and eliminate dss from the mix. Follow your normal routine focusing on something obvious in the daytime and take some images of that with/without cooling? 

[symmetal]

9 hours ago, alan potts said:

Rather disappointed in this less than a month and something that could be wrong, how does one re-charge this tablet Alan?

Alan

The black sticker on the side which Adam mentions does hide the screw to allow air access into the chamber. However this screw hole is to attach the little black tube which holds a couple of desiccant tablets to dry the air inside the chamber. This is meant to be used when the internal desiccant tablets have stopped working. This tube and 4 extra desiccant tablets was supplied with the ASI1600. But the ASI071 isn't supplied with the tube as it is now meant to be airtight inside so the tablets inside should in theory last forever. The later version of the 071, which we have, had the front redesigned so uses six screws to hold the front cover on instead of four screws on the earlier version to help achive the airtight seal. The internal four desiccant tablets aren't behind the screw hole on the side but behind the front panel.

To access them you need to remove the tilt corrector by removing the three large screws on the front. This then reveals the front cover which has six screws around the outside which need to be removed. Remove this cover with the camera facing down to help avoid any dust getting in. Inside the front cover is a foam pad holding the four tablets. I bought a replacement set of tablets from FLO and changed them. But to recharge the old ones I would do as Adam says and use the oven.

Before removing the front panel you can check the anti-dew heater is working by powering it from 12V and enabling the anti-dew in the Ascom driver. The plastic panel surrounding the front window should feel noticeably warmer in a few minutes. There is a flexible printed circuit board heater under the plastic panel.

If you remove the front panel to change the tablets ensure it is replaced in the same orientation as it came off, as there are two spring loaded contacts on the main body which contact the anti-dew heater when it's assembled.

As you have low humidity (much lower than me) I wouldn't have thought you wouldn't need the anti-dew so much. If the camera internal air has more moisture the sensor would form ice on the surface (as long as you cool below zero) before the front window dewed up I would have thought.

As Adam says just try the camera outside on its own during the day and you should be able to see any ice/dew fogging forming on the sensor or window.

Alan

[alan potts]

15 minutes ago, symmetal said:

The black sticker on the side which Adam mentions does hide the screw to allow air access into the chamber. However this screw hole is to attach the little black tube which holds a couple of desiccant tablets to dry the air inside the chamber. This is meant to be used when the internal desiccant tablets have stopped working. This tube and 4 extra desiccant tablets was supplied with the ASI1600. But the ASI071 isn't supplied with the tube as it is now meant to be airtight inside so the tablets inside should in theory last forever. The later version of the 071, which we have, had the front redesigned so uses six screws to hold the front cover on instead of four screws on the earlier version to help achive the airtight seal. The internal four desiccant tablets aren't behind the screw hole on the side but behind the front panel.

To access them you need to remove the tilt corrector by removing the three large screws on the front. This then reveals the front cover which has six screws around the outside which need to be removed. Remove this cover with the camera facing down to help avoid any dust getting in. Inside the front cover is a foam pad holding the four tablets. I bought a replacement set of tablets from FLO and changed them. But to recharge the old ones I would do as Adam says and use the oven.

Before removing the front panel you can check the anti-dew heater is working by powering it from 12V and enabling the anti-dew in the Ascom driver. The plastic panel surrounding the front window should feel noticeably warmer in a few minutes. There is a flexible printed circuit board heater under the plastic panel.

If you remove the front panel to change the tablets ensure it is replaced in the same orientation as it came off, as there are two spring loaded contacts on the main body which contact the anti-dew heater when it's assembled.

As you have low humidity (much lower than me) I wouldn't have thought you wouldn't need the anti-dew so much. If the camera internal air has more moisture the sensor would form ice on the surface (as long as you cool below zero) before the front window dewed up I would have thought.

As Adam says just try the camera outside on its own during the day and you should be able to see any ice/dew fogging forming on the sensor or window.

Alan

Thanks Alan, don't want to be trying any of that, I have just run it for 1 hours at minus 7 and nothing, which of course is what is bound to happen. I am a little concerned that this heated Anti Dew box that should be ticket unticks every time you shut down. Now whilst I am sure I switched it on the second night I collected data I an not sure how or when this switches off. I had a glitch with APT (this does not run well on through USB 2) The program froze and I reopened it again, I am thinking this turned of the Anti due. The troble is I can't recall at what point in the night this happened.

Still FLO are aware of my problems and incompetence and I am working along with Grant, he told me this is visible in the likes of refractor and i can check this by looking down the tube, I am sure they wish me to happy with my purchases. It is of course a bit of a new experience for them as well, Bulgaria 's weather is different so not everything is that straight forward maybe. Thanks for the help though you have all been very helpful, I am hoping for clear tonight but it don't look wonderful, bit stormy.

Alan

[symmetal]

2 hours ago, alan potts said:

Thanks Alan, don't want to be trying any of that, I have just run it for 1 hours at minus 7 and nothing, which of course is what is bound to happen. I am a little concerned that this heated Anti Dew box that should be ticket unticks every time you shut down. Now whilst I am sure I switched it on the second night I collected data I an not sure how or when this switches off. I had a glitch with APT (this does not run well on through USB 2) The program froze and I reopened it again, I am thinking this turned of the Anti due. The troble is I can't recall at what point in the night this happened.

Alan

No problem Alan, at least you have the information should you need it in the future. 

The anti-dew tick box should remember its previous setting when powered off. It seems the USB2 problems you're having are adding to your frustration.

By comparison, my ASI1600 which is the early version without the buffer for USB2 operation has never had any problems with dew or icing, still has the original tablets and I cool that to -30 over 10 mins each time. It doesn't have anti-dew and humidity is often over 90% here at night. 

[alan potts]

On 26/09/2019 at 19:28, symmetal said:

No problem Alan, at least you have the information should you need it in the future. 

The anti-dew tick box should remember its previous setting when powered off. It seems the USB2 problems you're having are adding to your frustration.

By comparison, my ASI1600 which is the early version without the buffer for USB2 operation has never had any problems with dew or icing, still has the original tablets and I cool that to -30 over 10 mins each time. It doesn't have anti-dew and humidity is often over 90% here at night. 

It doesn't remember I tried it earlier on, every time I have to tick it, I am sure this USB issue is the answer. My mate said it is just a module that plugs into the Express media port and you get 2x USB 3 outlets for about 13 quid. I was going to buy a new desk top, well decent S/H, he can get the very best deals on all manner of stuff, some of it hardly used but about 1/3 of the new price.

Looks like it will be clear at about 11 tonight but I am up at 5.30 so won't bother, tomorrow looks good.

Alan

 

[alan potts]

Well I slowed everything down as Grant had advised me to do and made triply sure the Anti Dew was ticked and took a few subs of the area near Sadr, just because this is overhead and a fair test of the focuser holding, which I always feel it does.

The other night I did forget to report that APT crashed partway through the imaging plan, about where subs nose dived I would say from memory. I feel this, having to re-start APT and not being able to turn the other off, then un-ticked the Anti Dew box, as it has not been staying on from one session to another. I believe here was the problem, one yet again caused by me, though it was not me not being able to focus, well that badly anyway, I'll work on it.

So here are 15 4 min subs with setting at minus 5, Darks are not matched they are taken at zero, I dare say Flats are wrong too as I had the camera off the rig to check for fogging. I have not checked the images but I know one has a wobble as I kicked the tirpod, me and my plates of meat.

Thank so much to all that offered advice, difficult telling from just a shot or two but between everyone we seem to have made something of an improvement, would be even better if I did not kick things,

Alan

[Laurin Dave]

Looking good Alan, pleased you got it sorted 

Dave

[symmetal]

Yes that's much better Alan. Hope you'll feel more comfortable with the camera from now on.

Alan

[alan potts]

4 hours ago, Laurin Dave said:

Looking good Alan, pleased you got it sorted 

Dave

Dave, there always seems to be something that goes wrong, could have saved myself time and everyone else trouble if I had report the APT crash, just didn't see it as playing a part at the time. This now I feel turned off the Anti Dew, we will never know of course but the further I go the little bits I am picking up, learning the hard way though.

Alan

10 minutes ago, symmetal said:

Yes that's much better Alan. Hope you'll feel more comfortable with the camera from now on.

Alan

Yes it seems to perform better now, probably even better with more data on things, just pleased to be getting some results. I find it hard to use though compared to the Canon, as everything was so much more visible on screen. I hope my mate is bring that plug-in part later but at least I am aware of this now. Alan and all the other, don't go away, I have a183MCpro to cause a whole new bag of problems for you all😀.

Alan