First AP Telescope!

[Jez]

Hello all,

i have owned a small reflector for over a year, I enjoy using it but I have always been interested in Astro Photography. I have worked abroad for the last few years but now that I'm home I want to buy a AS setup.

so far (after reading many topics on this website) I have decided on:

Advanced VX

Skywatcher 80 ED

 

i just wanted to know what camera you would recommend? Also the best way to autoguide?

i would prefer a CCD as I wouldn't use a DSLR for anything else.

if I'm totally off for first setup please let me know. Also any help on camera/autoguidibg would be greatly appreciated!

 

thanks for reading!

 

Jez

 

[SonnyE]

Hi Jez,

AVX - well, I've gotten mine to work great after a very rough start. It is capable, just takes a lot of twiddling to get it there. After two trips back for failed motor drives, I feed it ONLY 12 volt battery power, and it has been happy.

I don't have a Skywatcher, but I do have the Orion ED80T CF. I think like many others, an 80 mm makes a fine imaging telescope. But it takes a good camera.

I'm not at all happy with my G3 camera. I can get ok pictures with it, but I long for something better. I was new and just trusted the add. 3 years later, and 3 cameras BTW, I've managed to get images with it. But I refer to them as 'Picturds'. I find myself longing for a Cooled CMOS for deep space to finally emerge from the glut.

Guiding I went with the Orion MMDAG package, but built mine the hard way. I got the camera, then almost 3 months later got the guide scope. It's a long story. But this 50 mm scope, with the Star Shoot camera has been, without a doubt, the best thing in my kit. Not a moments grief with it.

Have you thought much about what you would like to image? I'm where I am because I wanted to image nebula, and on a budget. So I began looking at an AVX, and Celestrons' 6" refractor telescope. But quickly realized I needed an imaging telescope. Not a visual telescope. Point to stress here, with refractors, you can do both imaging and visual with the same triplet telescope. But with a visual (doublet), it's not the best to try and image through. I eventually mined down to what I wanted was a camera lens telescope. That lead me to triplet lenses. And since I wanted to do long exposure single images, in color, I'm where I am.

Choose carefully, choose wisely. The enjoy immensely! Think about what you would desire to image, then build your 'wish list' around that direction.

[GoodOleJim]

8 hours ago, SonnyE said:

Hi Jez,

AVX - well, I've gotten mine to work great after a very rough start. It is capable, just takes a lot of twiddling to get it there. After two trips back for failed motor drives, I feed it ONLY 12 volt battery power, and it has been happy.

I don't have a Skywatcher, but I do have the Orion ED80T CF. I think like many others, an 80 mm makes a fine imaging telescope. But it takes a good camera.

I'm not at all happy with my G3 camera. I can get ok pictures with it, but I long for something better. I was new and just trusted the add. 3 years later, and 3 cameras BTW, I've managed to get images with it. But I refer to them as 'Picturds'. I find myself longing for a Cooled CMOS for deep space to finally emerge from the glut.

Guiding I went with the Orion MMDAG package, but built mine the hard way. I got the camera, then almost 3 months later got the guide scope. It's a long story. But this 50 mm scope, with the Star Shoot camera has been, without a doubt, the best thing in my kit. Not a moments grief with it.

Have you thought much about what you would like to image? I'm where I am because I wanted to image nebula, and on a budget. So I began looking at an AVX, and Celestrons' 6" refractor telescope. But quickly realized I needed an imaging telescope. Not a visual telescope. Point to stress here, with refractors, you can do both imaging and visual with the same triplet telescope. But with a visual (doublet), it's not the best to try and image through. I eventually mined down to what I wanted was a camera lens telescope. That lead me to triplet lenses. And since I wanted to do long exposure single images, in color, I'm where I am.

Choose carefully, choose wisely. The enjoy immensely! Think about what you would desire to image, then build your 'wish list' around that direction.

Which Star Shoot did you purchase? I'm thinking about getting one for my 10" reflector, but am looking for feedback for the various models Orion sells.

[SonnyE]

31 minutes ago, GoodOleJim said:

Which Star Shoot did you purchase? I'm thinking about getting one for my 10" reflector, but am looking for feedback for the various models Orion sells.

Hi Jim,

I went with the classic one. http://www.telescope.com/Astrophotography/Astrophotography-Cameras/Orion-StarShoot-AutoGuider/pc/-1/c/4/sc/58/p/52064.uts

Guiding I went with the Orion MMDAG package. <Click here. The Orion "Magnificent Mini Deluxe Auto Guider" package. (What child thought that silly name up?)

But they came out with a bunch more models since I jumped in. Bigger telescopes can benefit from the larger aperture guide scopes. Although that logic escapes me. Because the guide scope feeds PHD2 (my example) a live feed of a part of the night sky. PHD2 picks a star to guide with and locks onto that one solitary star and tracks it. So why a larger guide scope would be better leaves me wondering why.

My main telescope is an 80 mm Triple APO, so my simple logic was that a 50 mm guide scope should be big enough. Seems to have worked out great for me.

[GoodOleJim]

7 hours ago, SonnyE said:

Hi Jim,

I went with the classic one. http://www.telescope.com/Astrophotography/Astrophotography-Cameras/Orion-StarShoot-AutoGuider/pc/-1/c/4/sc/58/p/52064.uts

Guiding I went with the Orion MMDAG package. <Click here. The Orion "Magnificent Mini Deluxe Auto Guider" package. (What child thought that silly name up?)

But they came out with a bunch more models since I jumped in. Bigger telescopes can benefit from the larger aperture guide scopes. Although that logic escapes me. Because the guide scope feeds PHD2 (my example) a live feed of a part of the night sky. PHD2 picks a star to guide with and locks onto that one solitary star and tracks it. So why a larger guide scope would be better leaves me wondering why.

My main telescope is an 80 mm Triple APO, so my simple logic was that a 50 mm guide scope should be big enough. Seems to have worked out great for me.

Thanks! I have a 10" Dob Reflector, and I'm debating how to get into AP myself. I think my best option is to get a driven EQ mount, and auto guider, and a Starshoot....but I don't want to make the decison and regret it. 

[SonnyE]

1 hour ago, GoodOleJim said:

Thanks! I have a 10" Dob Reflector, and I'm debating how to get into AP myself. I think my best option is to get a driven EQ mount, and auto guider, and a Starshoot....but I don't want to make the decison and regret it. 

Keep the Dob for observing, while your imager is cooking runs.

Win - Win!

[Jez]

Thanks for the reply!

i really appreciate it!

the Orion MMDAG looks like a great one. I haven't thought too much about what I want to image but will be going to my local astronomical society when they start having meet ups soon.

to be honest I bought a reflector to view the moon/planets. I don't know much about what I can expect to photograph with an 8" refractor I just know it really interests me.

would you recommend any books for starting out in AP (as in what I should be looking to photograph as a beginner)?

also you mentioned your camera and wanting to change it to a cooled CMOS. I have been reading a lot about everything but cameras are the one thing that confuses the hell out of me. What would be a good first one/what would you change to?

thanks again for the information .

Jez

[iapa]

4 hours ago, Jez said:

to be honest I bought a reflector to view the moon/planets. I don't know much about what I can expect to photograph with an 8" refractor I just know it really interests me.

I'd be interested in what you can see with an 8" refractor too  

4 hours ago, Jez said:

 

would you recommend any books for starting out in AP (as in what I should be looking to photograph as a beginner)?

also you mentioned your camera and wanting to change it to a cooled CMOS. I have been reading a lot about everything but cameras are the one thing that confuses the hell out of me. What would be a good first one/what would you change to?

thanks again for the information .

Jez

Making Every Photon Count - Steve Richards and Turn Left at Orion Book are good starters. I'd also look at the primers in the Imaging forums.

With the my  AVX and Equinox ED 80 pro (80mm dia, 500mm fl) I use an Orion 50mm Guidescope https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orion-Mini-50mm-Guide-Scope/dp/B004SFUO9U and Touptek mono camera ToupTek Colour Imaging and Guide Camera GCMOS01200KPB for guiding.

Re cameras, not much help there - I started with my existing Nikon, replaced with Canon 700D as the Nikon was getting long in the tooth. That was a "non-astrophotography" purchase as I needed a DSLR replacement.

Later I got an astro modded Canon 600D 2nd hand in the sale or swap here - that gave me better red response. I've liked what I got from it. I also built a home brew cooler per How to make a Peltier cooling mod for your Canon 600D DSLR camera Part 1.

In April I bought a cooled ASI1600MM with filter wheel, but, not had opportunity to use it yet.

[newbie alert]

 AVX is a awesome mount..coupled with a 80mm frac is a great AP setup..The ASPA feature works well on the handset but can't praise the polemaster high enough for true PA..assuming you can see Polaris.. I'm sure you will have lots of fun with that..

[Jez]

Thank you both!

i will look into those books as I definitely need to read up more!

i am set on everything pretty much now apart from camera but will keep looking/reading over next week or so.

thanks again

jez 

[iapa]

2 hours ago, Jez said:

i am set on everything pretty much now apart from camera but will keep looking/reading over next week or so.

I occurs, that even if you have a point and shoot camera, there are cheap adapters available which would let you at least get that 1st astro photo, and you can get to learn other aspects whilst considering your initial camera purchase.

One thing worth considering is that there are now a number of companies suppling CMOS sensor cameras which have a lower read noise and higher QE than many CCDs. 

[iapa]

On 14/06/2017 at 02:51, Jez said:

to be honest I bought a reflector to view the moon/planets. I don't know much about what I can expect to photograph with an 8" refractor I just know it really interests me.

This is a poor example of what is possible with the Equinox ED80 Pro with a Canon 600D (modded).

85 x 120s RGB, 39 BIAS, 20 x 0.25s FLATS, 40 x 120s DARKS

ISO 800, Canon 600D (modded), AVX mount.

NGC 7635 'bubble' nebula.

[SonnyE]

On 6/13/2017 at 18:51, Jez said:

Thanks for the reply!

i really appreciate it!

the Orion MMDAG looks like a great one. I haven't thought too much about what I want to image but will be going to my local astronomical society when they start having meet ups soon.

to be honest I bought a reflector to view the moon/planets. I don't know much about what I can expect to photograph with an 8" refractor I just know it really interests me.

would you recommend any books for starting out in AP (as in what I should be looking to photograph as a beginner)?

also you mentioned your camera and wanting to change it to a cooled CMOS. I have been reading a lot about everything but cameras are the one thing that confuses the hell out of me. What would be a good first one/what would you change to?

thanks again for the information .

Jez

When I chose the MMDAG it was almost my only choice. Since then they have added a 30, 60, and 70 mm guide scopes, and other camera choices. So consider that.

My experiences with the MMDAG have been great. I have zero regrets. My understanding is that it is recommended a guide scope be ~ 1/3 the Aperture of the Main telescope. (IE: 30 x 3 = 90 mm of Aperture. I use a 50 mm with an 80 mm.)

I fail to find reason in that 1/3 idea, as the entire purpose of a guide scope is to lock on to a single star, then track that star for hours on end. If you had a 30" telescope, you need a 10" guide scope?

Cameras are meant to confuse the hell out of us. Worse yet is the pictures the ad writers use are far, far, from what you or I will get. Even the online pictures from the Hubble Telescope are actually manufactured.

So I advise you take the pictures and ads with a grain of salt.

I recommend Rock Salt... And in some cases, an entire salt lick block. Yes, they lie that much.

[SonnyE]

12 hours ago, iapa said:

This is a poor example of what is possible with the Equinox ED80 Pro with a Canon 600D (modded).

85 x 120s RGB, 39 BIAS, 20 x 0.25s FLATS, 40 x 120s DARKS

ISO 800, Canon 600D (modded), AVX mount.

NGC 7635 'bubble' nebula.

It is a good example of wide field though, iapa. Which is what I also get with my DSLR. (Big Sky!)

Here is a late assembly of the Trifid a couple of nights ago (Another poor example .) Orion ED80T CF,  G3 CCD, 0.5X reducer (which makes the image 4X bigger than with no reducer), 26 - 150 second exposures, GIF file.

Comparison of star sizes in the background, DSLR - CCD.

[ollypenrice]

I'd normally advise you to go for a proper mono CCD camera but the new CMOS chipped cameras like the ZWO cooled have put the cat among the pigeons.

This has an awful lot going for it. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi1600mm-cool-usb-3-mono-camera.html I don't know of anything at this kind of price likely to compete with it.

If you go for CCD I'd choose something from Atik. They have a wide range of chip and pixel sizes, are very reliable and offer great backup. I run three commercially.

Olly

[SonnyE]

49 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

I'd normally advise you to go for a proper mono CCD camera but the new CMOS chipped cameras like the ZWO cooled have put the cat among the pigeons.

This has an awful lot going for it. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi1600mm-cool-usb-3-mono-camera.html I don't know of anything at this kind of price likely to compete with it.

If you go for CCD I'd choose something from Atik. They have a wide range of chip and pixel sizes, are very reliable and offer great backup. I run three commercially.

Olly

A question if I may, Olly....

A friend of mine has an ASI 1600mm Cooled and recently he posted a picture with what appears to be striations from the sensor. He wondered why and what might cause that.

Might you have any thoughts about what causes that? (My G3 Orion CCD does this profusely and is why I wouldn't recommend it.)

I have long felt the CMOS would become the newest sensor to have. But have been watching for it to surpass the CCD's capabilities. Particularly cooling.

[iapa]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

I'd normally advise you to go for a proper mono CCD camera but the new CMOS chipped cameras like the ZWO cooled have put the cat among the pigeons.

This has an awful lot going for it. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi1600mm-cool-usb-3-mono-camera.html I don't know of anything at this kind of price likely to compete with it.

If you go for CCD I'd choose something from Atik. They have a wide range of chip and pixel sizes, are very reliable and offer great backup. I run three commercially.

Olly

I bought the ASI1600MMM-cooled with LRGB filters and wheel a couple of months ago.

Still waiting for ht clouds to go away.....

[SonnyE]

Just now, iapa said:

I bought the ASI1600MMM-cooled with LRGB filters and wheel a couple of months ago.

Still waiting for ht clouds to go away.....

OMG! I would have had to travel by now. You have much more patience than I do.

I've been drooling over ZWO's EFW for a while now. But still in a quandary about cameras.

[Jez]

I have been looking at the asi1600mm/mc cooled... seems like a lot of people are loving it! I just need to think about seriously if I get the mono (from what you guys have said it is a big step up from the colour). Or do I get the colour as I have no experience... so much to think about ?.

at least it's just the camera that's giving me cause to think. I'm happy with everything else thanks to all the advice!

really appreciate it.

Jez

[SonnyE]

1 minute ago, Jez said:

I have been looking at the asi1600mm/mc cooled... seems like a lot of people are loving it! I just need to think about seriously if I get the mono (from what you guys have said it is a big step up from the colour). Or do I get the colour as I have no experience... so much to think about ?.

at least it's just the camera that's giving me cause to think. I'm happy with everything else thanks to all the advice!

really appreciate it.

Jez

Jez,

My first camera is a OSC. My next camera (if ever) will be Mono, and hopefully an EFW (electronic filter wheel).

And were I to be in your neck of the woods (GB) I'd contact FLO. There is a lot to be said for a brick and mortar store.

And best of Luck as you slide into Astro-imaging.

[RichLD]

The QHY163m is an excellent camera and is well worth considering...

[Jez]

6 minutes ago, SonnyE said:

Jez,

My first camera is a OSC. My next camera (if ever) will be Mono, and hopefully an EFW (electronic filter wheel).

And were I to be in your neck of the woods (GB) I'd contact FLO. There is a lot to be said for a brick and mortar store.

And best of Luck as you slide into Astro-imaging.

I just looked and the shop is in Exeter which is 2.5 hours from me. Luckily enough 3 of my best mates live there and I'm going down next month for a long weekend ? I'll have to go and have a look ?

[SonnyE]

3 minutes ago, Jez said:

I just looked and the shop is in Exeter which is 2.5 hours from me. Luckily enough 3 of my best mates live there and I'm going down next month for a long weekend ? I'll have to go and have a look ?

Mates, Pints, and a camera too!

Sounds like a perfect weekend holiday!

We'll get all your monies spent yet!

[ollypenrice]

9 hours ago, SonnyE said:

A question if I may, Olly....

A friend of mine has an ASI 1600mm Cooled and recently he posted a picture with what appears to be striations from the sensor. He wondered why and what might cause that.

Might you have any thoughts about what causes that? (My G3 Orion CCD does this profusely and is why I wouldn't recommend it.)

I have long felt the CMOS would become the newest sensor to have. But have been watching for it to surpass the CCD's capabilities. Particularly cooling.

Could you link to the propblem picture? 

I'm still sticking with CCD for now but the high speed, short exposure option brings some of the advatages of planetary 'lucky imaging' to deep sky. On the French forum I saw a simply stunning Crab Nebula taken with multiple short exposures. It clearly out-resolves anything I've seen from amateur CCD but I can't find it at the moment. I'll be very interested when Atik bring out their CMOS camera.

Olly

[SonnyE]

7 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Could you link to the propblem picture? 

I'm still sticking with CCD for now but the high speed, short exposure option brings some of the advatages of planetary 'lucky imaging' to deep sky. On the French forum I saw a simply stunning Crab Nebula taken with multiple short exposures. It clearly out-resolves anything I've seen from amateur CCD but I can't find it at the moment. I'll be very interested when Atik bring out their CMOS camera.

Olly

My apologize for the delay Olly, I had a time finding his post. It is mid-thread.

Here is the post, and the image.  http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-466326-1.html#7840589

When downloaded the lines I refer to as 'striations' are more apparent. Ed's are the first I've run across besides mine with my Orion G3 color camera.

And he is wondering what might cause them? I'm watching postings from cameras in an effort to decide on my next.

Thank You for anything you might share.