Fingers crossed for tonight, what might I see, what should I use? Now - observation diary

[JOC]

Apparently its only clear until Midnight!!

So, I've just nipped outside - got the goto running on Betelgeuse and Polaris - went to check with Castor and zilch, nada, nothing!!  When I check in a just a few moments all the lenses have gone from clear to fogged and I reckon I suddenly hit dew point.  :-(  Now currently stuffed for the moment.  I have left all the eyepieces outside in the hope that they might acclimatise and clear - is this a possibility?  Or what is the recommended course of action when this happens - I have done the swearing inwardly bit already!

[Charic]

About an hour ago, Venus was burning brilliant looking from the front of my house ( SSW) and would have been in  perfect  alignment with the side of my house, taking cover and street lighting into consideration! 
My car is frozen over, there's still patches of snow on the road and now its clouded over 

Best of luck with your observations.

[JOC]

So tonight's lessons learned:

1)  My least favourite weather type is now 'dew fall'

2)  My new favourite observation area within my 'garden' is next to the greenhouse - a good view of most of the east sky, most of the south east, most of the south west all of the west and bar about 30ft of trees all of the North, north west and north east - the only bit then missing behind the house is due south.  I can turn off the security light and the porch light and am about 30ft from the house.  Far better than other spots I've tried.

Did I mention that I don't like dew?  The new spot isn't dew free?

3)  My old skiing 'all in one suit' from C&A years ago is brilliant for keeping warm and is now my 'observing suit'

The telescope needs an 'all in one' to keep out the dew!

4)  Providing I can see Orion I can program the goto first time!! (this is major step forward)!

You can't see Orion if the main mirror is covered with dew!

5)  When Venus is out it shows up well with a 4mm eyepiece,

but only until the eyepiece gets covered with dew!

6)  The biggest lesson is that astronomy is appears fraught with problems - you wait weeks for a clear night, and still things can be wrecked by dew.

So before the dew came down, I saw Venus (actually before it got dark) - she was about a 50% circle, Mars was a reddish 'blip' , then I swung for Castor and zilch - dew had hit everything (I'm truly amazed that the change happens that quickly).  I fished around and found a couple of eyepieces that seemed less affected, but viewing wasn't as fun after that.  I got a reasonable look at M42 and had a play with an 8mm eyepiece - it wasn't brilliant smothered in dew, but split the trapezium into 4.  Then I tried some camera exposures - I'm not entirely certain how you are meant to focus a camera onto a star you can't see in the view finder - when I took photos of the moon through the telescope the moon was bright enough and large enough to focus on, but stars are different.  The camera exposures are well contaminated with the dew on the mirror, but at least with some files I can practice with the software.

The final plus was that I had bought a 17AmpHr Maplin power source which for about 3 hours nicely powered the Goto and powered the telescope motorised drive to several new locations and showed very little loss of charge at the end.  I was quite pleased with it.

[rockystar]

did you mention something about dew?

It's a pain isn't it!

[gtis]

57 minutes ago, rockystar said:

did you mention something about dew?

It's a pain isn't it!

Another one for a eyepiece dew strap

[JOC]

gtis, an 'eyepiece' dew strap - gotcha - will go and look one up online.

Is there anything else that helps - does the dew literally 'fall' i.e. will keeping a lid over things or the plastic cups on the eyepieces until the moment I use them help ?  Or will it just appear from atmosphere onto any available surface like a lens? 

[JOC]

Eye piece dew strap purchased.

[rockystar]

6 minutes ago, JOC said:

Eye piece dew strap purchased.

Have you got something to power it?

1 hour ago, JOC said:

gtis, an 'eyepiece' dew strap - gotcha - will go and look one up online.

Is there anything else that helps - does the dew literally 'fall' i.e. will keeping a lid over things or the plastic cups on the eyepieces until the moment I use them help ?  Or will it just appear from atmosphere onto any available surface like a lens? 

It's like opening the oven with your glasses on, or coming in to a warm house from the cold outside - it just attaches to the glass from the air.

[JOC]

The Power unit that I tried using last night has got two 12V 'cigarette lighter' style female sockets on it, and if necessary a three pin plug inverter.  I think the heater said it needs one of the 12V sockets so I reasoned with the telescope plugged into the other one I would be able to power both, albeit at the expense of some of the longevity of the power supply full stop.  If necessary I could always power the telescope through a standard 240V extension lead and three pin plug socket as I have both a three pin plug and a 'cigarette lighter' style power cord for the telescope.  NB.  I do start to see why lots of people favour manual telescopes that don't need power!

12 minutes ago, rockystar said:

It's like opening the oven with your glasses on, or coming in to a warm house from the cold outside - it just attaches to the glass from the air.

Bah, humbug - Then that makes it a real pain in the neck.  I just wondered if some form of shelter would help as sometimes when you look around there seems more on top surfaces than undersides.  How about once the temperature gets lower than the initial dew point - does it continue to flood out of the air, or after the initial water vapour has been dumped is the problem alleviated to any extent, i.e. can you get around some of it by not taking some gear outside until after it has initially come down.

[gtis]

The dew heater strap will have a phono plug on the end and not a cigarette socket

[gtis]

This might be ok to use

http://www.dewcontrol.com/Cigarette_Power_Leads_Phono_Socket/p3099125_13437761.aspx

[JOC]

Thanks both - nothing is ever easy is it?  Though that double ended lead may well do the trick gtis - thank you

[Charic]

15 minutes ago, JOC said:

nothing is ever easy is it?

Many things are often only discovered after the event, I wonder if you would have had less dew if you had the solid tube Skyliner, just a thought!

[JOC]

Hi Charic, I am working on a solution to making a wrap to place around the open rod supported area as I also think that it would be better off being covered in use.   

[Charic]

There is the Sky-Watcher light shroud,  its elasticated, breathable with sewn in  re-enforcement bands bands for about £60 or there's  Camping mat  foam for about  £5, possibly much more rigid, and not as light tight at the ends, but a bit of string or a belt ?................there's just too many options?
 

[JOC]

Hi Charic, I've tried thin camping mat foam to make a dew shield on the ends of the telescope, but, despite getting a thin one, I found it was too heavy for the motors to shift.  Whether set down the tube around the sides would make it easier to turn (being closer to the fulcrum won't make the weight so much of a problem) I don't know.  I've also been looking at sheets of stiff plastic.  However, until I find a permanent solution I'll probably bodge something with some fabric.  I like making a home-made solution for things like this, I just need to find the best material to make it from.  I'm currently on a ''thinking outside the box" search for material I think will do the job, I've no doubt that it won't be long before I find what I need and when I find the solution I'll certainly share on SGL.  It needs to be waterproof, workable/fastenable, cut-able, I'm thinking some sort of canvas, maybe a bit of curtain-sider material something like that.  

[JOC]

So it was crisp and frozen and CLEAR here last night.  Now as you may have noticed I am not yet dedicated enough to be a stay outside all night and freeze my "wotnots" off type astronomer, but I am starting to appreciate these frosty clear nights.  The frost seems to clear all the water vapour out of the air, and although the sky might have some ice crystals in it high up, it does seem better observation conditions than horrible wet dew which clogs up the lenses and mirrors.  I went back to my perch near the greenhouse and tried my new water-butt stand out.  Now this perch near the greenhouse does have a small disadvantage - at eye level the telescope can see nothing at a suitable distance for lining up the finderscope on - too many hedges around the garden even on the stand.  I have now found out that the top of the tallest tree in the field next door is not far enough away.  I found this out because I was having all sorts of bother finding Betelgeuse even with a 32mm eyepiece in. 

I could find it in the finderscope, but  the lens was no-where near.  NB.  For any newbies reading this if you fit a finderscope at plus temps in the afternoon and go to your machine at minus temps later at night check the tightness of the screws holding the finderscope mount in place once the metal is cold.  They are fairly heavy items in their stands if they fall off and land on your toes to say nothing of the potential damage to the finderscope.  Luckily the finderscope seemed OK, but what to adjust it all in on?  What was big enough and easy enough to find in the sky to sort it all out again?..................Venus!!  I like Venus, we are watching it each time we look to see how the shape is changing - it's fascinating.   So I got things back with finder and telescope mimicking each other and then tried the Betelgeuse calibration again - better - hooray  (NB.  The HHGTTG has got a lot to answer for, I never paid that much attention to it, but the ex. was a fan and I can't think of Betelgeuse without thinking of the HHGTTG).  So I was now running out of time - I go out of the house on Thursday and Tuesday nights.  So we looked at Venus again, had a look at Mars, I took a look at Aldebaran and then finish off with Castor which I love for its double star split which I see really well in my 10mm Plossl eyepiece that came with the telescope.  I need to find out on the web if the stars are actually linked in some way of if it is just two stars one close and one further away which are just in the same line of sight.  Anyhow I then went out and left it all running just to give the Powerpack a work out.  It was still going when I returned, which meant it had some several big slews, and about 4 hours tracking and hadn't dropped power much so I was still pleased with it.  I've had in on charge today.  Currently fingers are crossed for tonight today I have had two stools delivered for to give me somewhere to sit, and have rooted out a small table - I also have some nice lists of new things to look at from my other thread.  I still need to play with hooking up the camera to the telescope, but that will come as I get all the needed kit and find out what needs to go where. 

So that's what I ended up doing last night - Oh, and Jupiter still wasn't up when I got home, but I did try!

[rockystar]

nice little report. From memory, I think Castor is actually 6 stars that orbit each other. Check out Sigma Orionis & Nizar for another couple of easy (and easily found) multiple star systems

 

[JOC]

6 stars - wow!  I'll try for those others another night rockystar - thanks. 

Well, two nights in a row - am I a lucky person or what? 

So I had my nephew down and was able to share what I could already reliably find.  He is 13 and we viewed Venus, Mars, M42 Nebula (which was really excellent tonight) and trapezium (I showed him the 4 star split), Pleiades (his idea, but I had previously found it and knew where it was), castor and split the double star for him.  He was really excited by what he saw.  As you might have read in the other thread I had less success with finding the coloured stars, but I think as I get more skilled at finding things goto and otherwise they will appear.  I also then gave a similar tour to my son who finally decided he'd come and have a look.  As Venus sunk in the sky it became more difficult to focus on - I'm guessing because I then look through more atmosphere - it was also getting well mixed up with top of my hedge by the last time of looking so my son will have to enjoy it another night.  The big issue I am still having is there are far more stars up there than I would ever have thought possible.  Even a the finder-scope, which doesn't have a huge amount of magnification takes an apparently blank bit of sky then appears to fill it with stars that my eyes can't tell are there, so I think I am trying find a particular star that I can see from the ground with the naked eye in the finderscope and I peak through it and suddenly have a choice of about 50 to pick from in certain parts of the sky. 

Having failed with the two coloured stars I tried I took a pick off the double stars catalogue list on the goto to try and find something in the darker part of my skies and landed on Sigma Cas which sent the goto a bit higher in the sky, but still in the poor part of my sky - now that one I found - it was a bit fuzzy, but def had a division between the two stars.

Anyhow, all in all I don't think it was a bad night, some things were nicely clear, and I was finally able to share what I was seeing with someone else which was nice.  Mum also came out to see Venus and M42 - she likes Venus and comes out to see whether it has changed its phase.  She wanted to see the coloured stars, but as I said I couldn't find them tonight.  So we had to content ourselves with what we had.  I used the water butt stand again, and the height def. works esp. for us taller adults.  I also got frozen again, but it is way better than dew!!  I wonder if I will make it three days in a row tomorrow night?

[rockystar]

18 hours ago, JOC said:

I wonder if I will make it three days in a row tomorrow night?

very lucky if you get three days in a row.

you won't be able to see all 6, maybe 3, but each of those 3 have only been identified as double by spectroscopy (and that isn't how your spell it!)

[JOC]

rockystar - would you believe it's set clear for tonight as well?!!

[rockystar]

lucky you - think I need to move to Essex! last night was ok here, but I was exhausted and there was a bit of high whispy cloud. first stars I've seen in two weeks though, an it's not looking for the next week either

 

[JOC]

So down in deepest Essex the weather held clear for the third night on the trot.  At one point a rather ominous looking bank of mist about 50 ft high crept to within about 300 yards of me, but then I waved at it in true Jedi style applied a bit of the Force and it backed down again.   I did about 3 hours tonight at nearly -4C - took out coffee in an insulated cup and have def. proved that the ideal outfit is my old skiing onsie from C&A in the 80's and a pair of cheap insulated snow boots from Lidls, with thick 'thinsulate' hat and fingerless gloves!

The calibration went well, I found Orion's belt on first swing, straight onto Betelgeuse and had the finder sufficiently well zeroed in that when it tried for Polaris I found it in the finderscope, as predicted on the other thread as the brightest one in that area of the sky.  Still couldn't find Almach though, I will keep trying as I don't like not being able to do something.  I got the bins, out but I think I need to be either lying down or with them propped up on something - it seems very high in the sky. 

I checked out Venus as part of my usual teach myself route and tonight tried her with a polarising filter - it made a big difference to being able to see the shape more clearly.   I did M42 again I just like the way the trapezium splits.  Then I took a dip in the goto and thought I'd start at the beginning and dialled up M1 which I think is the crab nebula - I ended up on a cluster of stars shaped like a backwards pointing 'C' with a bright star on the end at the bottom.  Does that sound right?  Having had various problems finding things recently I tried experimenting with finding my way from star to star in Orion trying to get a feel of how far objects are when I move between them in the finder.  Then I took a look at an object my son and I had experimented with last night and had named the 'Raving party star' on account of us not being certain whether we were looking at something man-made or otherwise.  Tonight I remembered I had Stellarium on my phone and found it's proper identity - Sirius!  Now, it could be a quality of it being lower on the horizon and more atmosphere being looked though, but it is difficult to bring into true focus, despite this as we look at it seems to change colour, reds, blues, oranges, sometimes it seems to change shape as though there is more than one object there, but it definitely seems multi-coloured like Betelgeuse on LSD.  Are we suffering from cold induced hallucinations, or does it really do this?  In any event the 'Raving Party Star' is our new favourite object to look at. 

Somehow I don't think the weather will hold for 4 nights so I've put everything away properly tonight and will check for dryness before covering up tomorrow.

[rockystar]

Sirius (The Dog Star) is another double, but its "pup" is notoriously tricky to see, as it's pretty close, Sirius is so bright and as you've found it can shimmer all over the place due to the think atmosphere at its relatively low elevation. Have a look in the "Observing - Discussions" section ( I think) there is a long thread about splitting this double.

Nice session though

 

[Daz69]

Some good reports there JOC. Nice scope by the way  I've got a Rigel illuminated finder, and once aligned, the effort to find anything is very minimal which helps us newbies! 

I've had about 4-5 good clear (frozen) nights here in Nth Hants, but I have to be careful as I have Trigeminal Neuralgia and the cold on my face can trigger a very painful attack, so I've got a big heavy winter wax 3/4 length coat with big hood, thermal neck/face tube and a Thinsulate hat. My hands are bare for ease of use, but might try and find my old motorcycling silk gloves.  I can only observe for about 60-90 minutes as I don't want to chance my luck. 

So looking forward to the warmer months!

keep up the good work.