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Fingers crossed for tonight, what might I see, what should I use? Now - observation diary


JOC

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So I have my fingers crossed for a clear night tonight.  Stellarium suggests that if I want to try finding planets for the first time (and planets seem the easiest option to start with) that I might find mars, venus and Uranus (yes?)  At our disposal we have the supplied 1.25" Plossl 26mm and a 1.25" Plossl 10mm as supplied with the kit, my son has also been made a present of a Celestron Plossl 1.25" 32mm.

I think I can probably make the Goto work which might make instant gratification easier.  However, what should I do in terms of using these lenses please?

Answers in time for tonight would be splendid please!  Very excited with many fingers crossed.  Many thanks 

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Venus, Mars, Uranus and Neptune are all visible this evening. The first two need to be caught early before they set.

A clear SE horizon helps with Vanus and Mars because they are pretty low down. Mars is very small at the moment so just shows a pinkish disk with the occasional suggestions of markings at around 200x magnification. Venus shows a nice phase at around 100x to 150x. Seeing any details on Venus is very, very difficult because they take the form of very subtle shadings on the illuminated disk.

Neptune is a tiny, tiny disk even at 250x but nice to spot. It looks star like in finders and lower powered eyepieces. Uranus disk is larger than Neptunes but smaller than Mars and should look pale blue / green at around 150x-200x.

Unless you have a barlow lens availble your higest power is the 10mm eyepiece which gives 120x so Venus would be your best bet I'd have thought. Your 32mm and 26mm eyepieces could be useful as finder eyepieces for the planets but you will need higher magnifications on Mars, Uranus and Neptune to see them as more than tinted stars.

The showpiece currently in the sky is Orion and later in the evening viewing Messier 42, the great Orion nebula with your 26mm or 32mm eyepieces should provide a lovely view.

Hope it stays clear for you !

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Hi John, many thanks for replying.

Mmmm.......Clear SE horizon may not be easy - I've got the SE view - stellarium suggested that I should point SE too so I set up around the back of the house, but I haven't got much height here - we are about 7m above sea level and the back garden is surrounded by trees - therefore anything on or pretty close to the horizon may be out of the question - I could see the picture in stellarium and that did suggest that the planets might not high in the sky, but I just thought they might be worth crossing fingers for.  It sounds like I might not have sufficient magnification to see much anyway from what you put above, but I'll see if I can spot them once I get going.  However, this Great Orion nebula that you describe might be worth trying for.  Even I can spot Orion's belt in night sky (the net says the nebula is south of this) and I am sure with the help of the goto which seems pre-programmed with the Messier objects (assuming I can get it calibrated OK - I think I managed a two star calibration when I first tried it) we might find this.  I've got the telescope outside already so it cools to ambient and I've put the lenses outside too in the hope that they might not fog up too quickly (which is the problem I had previously).  Rather excited here and hoping the weather holds clear!

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I spent over an hour in and around Orion last night. The nebula is the middle star of his sword, you should be able to make it out with the naked eye.

you can also check out Sigma Orionis, just under his belt and the 37 cluster at the top of his club.

enjoy :)

your 26mm will probably do for all of these targets, but try the 10 once you've found them.

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I got some great views of Mars last night with my ED80 'frac with a 2.5 TV Powermate & a 6mm WO EP. Saw he hint of surface details when the seeing steadied to allow 250x view. Venus was blazing away lower down, but apart from the phase of Venus no details were visible. Uranus and especially Neptune might be trickier to spot due to their small size, but should capable to be seen with your scope, however as John says your max magnification is only 120x with your range of EPs, so unless you have 20/20 eyesight you may find it hard to make out a disk at all. Orion is starting to dominate the skies in the southern part of the skies. M31 in Andromeda should be good to,see been high in the sky. I always use M31 a guide for sky conditions.

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Thanks all, I'll start making a list!.  Mind you the cloud predictor app. says we should be OK, but I've just been and looked outside and there is fair amount of high level cloud occurring at the moment :-(  Very much hoping that clears, but at the moment the words 'looking less promising' than earlier this afternoon seem unfortunately appropriate.  Will check later.

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Well I lasted about an hour before the cold won.  That and a little frustration.  Venus was fabulous by the naked eye from the centre of my countryside field about 250m from where I could get the 'scope to.  From the back garden - not a hope - the telescope is low to the ground and the back garden surrounded by hedges too high to see over. 

Mars I had more luck with - now before you say it was not much higher in the sky so how come the difference?  Whilst I was outside it was in a different part of the sky and conveniently in the one gap between two tall trees - I found it with the 26mm and also managed to get everyone here a look through the 10mm when, though tiny, we def. had a planetary disk with a pinkish tinge.  Uranus it had a try for, but I be blowed if I could see anything through the range finder let alone the lenses. 

I think I found M42 - I was fighting a line of hedges.  In the finish I found something resembling a diagonal line of three stars fairly close to together and to the bottom left of these it was as though there was a cluster of nearly touching 4 or 5 stars.  How does that sound?

So tonight was a learning experience - for anyone new to the game these are tonight's lessons learned:

1. Read the stickies in the beginners section before spending cash on the equipment an esp. learn your way around the sky first - it makes finding these key bright stars far easier.  Even with stellarium they are hard to pick out.  Though after a process of trial and error I do appear to be making correct choices.  Life would be much quicker if I instinctively knew what was what up there.

2.  Wrap up warm and then do it again.  I am currently starting to see the attraction in routing out an old 80's skiing onsie from the loft which still has the singular accolade of being the warmest thing I've ever worn even if it is far from the height of fashion.

3.  If you need to plug things in be aware of where your leads are.  It is the height of frustration to finally get the thing centred on two stars and then whilst it is slewing the movement catches the top of the extension lead reel and the falling box manages to tug the two part lead apart at the joint necessitating repeating the whole process only to find that where you did it an hour ago more stars have appeared and those you used have moved and you have to work it all out again!!

4.  There is a lot to be said for a system that gives the option to move it about manually as well as drive itself.  Currently I am about half and half and the neat system on my telescope doesn't mind this.  I find a bit of a push is useful for finding things, but the self-tracking works well to keep things there.

5.  Some Yoga mats are def. too heavy to make dew shields from.

6.  A laundry basket is a good object to put everything you want into

7.  Parents will arrive to view your objects resplendent with the brightest white torches they can lay their hands on.

8.  Stick to one coat and make sure it only has one pocket.  Lens caps swiftly disappear if you change coats half-way through a session and will probably only disgorge missing lens covers from pockets 24 hrs later!

9.  Finger tip less gloves are worth wearing.

10.  Did I mention wrap up warm!

 

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Wow! That's some course-syllabus you've created!

I'll be very interested to read of your next adventure. Yoga-mats :eek: - really? :D You certainly do keep going in your set task. That tells me you'll succeed brilliantly in due course.

Very amazing job, and a great write-up!

Thank you!

Dave :icon_salut:

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That was a good read.  You have illustrated very well,  how soon into an observing session,  things can go pear shaped.  Don't feel too bad about it though,  it has happened to most of us at some time. The thing is, we have to learn  from experiences like this,  preparation is paramount. One can never legislate for all that can happen to mar a session,  be it an observing one,  or an imaging run,  but forward planning is vital.   Of course this Maxim could  be applied to many activities,  not just Astronomy.                                                     Nevertheless,  your post can provide a wake up call to us all,  it was amusing too,  as well as informative, so thank you for writing it up. :icon_biggrin:

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Great post, I really enjoyed the read.

Having a sense of humour certainly helps in this game.

I promise things will get easier but don't expect perfection all the time. There are plenty more pitfalls waiting for you.

Good luck and enjoy.

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What lovely comments - thank you so very much, a really lovely Christmas gift.  Def. a sense of humour here - I actually think astronomy will demand it.  After all I think I've got to be very slightly mad to want to sit outside, in the dark, probably by yourself, with X pounds worth of technical kit, just to get closer to lights in the sky that you've seen your whole life, freezing your (male or female, as appropriate), proverbials off, whilst other 'sane' people are curled up on the sofa, next to a roaring fire, watching their favourite TV show with a cup/glass of something appropriate. 

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That 10 point Newbie Learning list gave me a real smile!  I also use a laundry basket!  Some sage advice about wrapping up warm and getting to know the skies though.

 

Now, how long before you decide to drape a black t-shirt over your head, while wearing an eyepatch while you are straining your back to get a decent angle?

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mikey2000, what has thrown me is the goto needing to be shown known stars, be it a single bright one, or a two star setup and me not knowing the names of individual stars.  Like most people I can pick out a good few constellations, but knowledge of which stars are Vega, Capella or Betelgeuse is currently becoming a steep learning curve.  In fact I think I might go outside with just Stellarium in hand for a couple of sessions to try and become more familiar with the brightest ones,  The trouble is even with Stellarium it isn't easy.  I look at the screen and pick up a familiar name that is in the sky.  Register on the screen that it is, something like, to the left about 7 O'clock from two bright stars in a bottom left to top right diagonal North West and I think OK that's findable, and then I look up and all of a sudden it is not as clear as I think it should be.  Somehow I seem to be striking lucky with the calibration as it finally finds what it should (like Mars), but it is a steep learning curve.

Oh, yes I have two more numbers

11.  My map compass is proving useful - I'm actually tempted to find an old one and mount it on the telescope

12.  I also think mounting a two way spirit level on the telescope base would be a useful thing to have.

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On 12/22/2016 at 20:35, JOC said:

A laundry basket is a good object to put everything you want into

If its durable/strong enough to take the weight, a second basket  or a water butt stand, will raise the scope somewhat off the ground, giving additional height for those lower targets, but the lower the target, the more atmosphere your looking though, so not so good if conditions are poor,  and the higher the scope, the higher the eyepiece is from the ground, and  if your a 5`8" shorty like me, then reach could be an issue, as I always sit at the scope!
There's really nothing simple with this hobby, and everything  you attempt or desire requires double the thought process to see it through and get it right?  

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Hi Charic, I am indeed a 5'8" (exactly) 'shorty' LOL 

So I was out again last night.  As per my comments in other threads I see to have cracked finding M42, but its an easy target to find.  Amazingly so much more detailed through the telescope than a fine patch of light that you can hardly see by eye.  To see that split in the trapezium when I didn't even expect to find a star there at all is quite astounding - the 10mm lens supplied with the telescope may not be the best on the planet, but it is resolving the stars in that group surprisingly well. 

So lessons learned last night.

A.  It's still a proverbially cold hobby - to think I decided not to Scuba dive as it would be too cold in this country and then I decide to try astronomy in the winter!!  Go figure!

B.  Parents still appear with huge bright torches when you don't want them too and then make the observation that all their Christmas lights through the window and around the house probably don't help - roll on 12th night!

C.  My garden has way too many tall objects around it.  It's funny how I never noticed all the trees, kids swings, trees, garage, trees, lamp posts, trees, gates, trees, house height, trees, Oh, did I mention the trees before I got a telescope

D.  I start to see the advantage of a power pack to untie me from needing to be in touch with a three pin plug, but I am still put off of the thought of lugging everything over to the centre of our field - where it would be nice and dark - as it weighs so much (how these folks who make 20" dobs cope is beyond me!!)

E.  I still need to learn my key stars and get practised in finding them with the finder scope - it is still not easy to point even the finderscope at the bit I want let alone the telescope.

F.  I've started making notes and drawing dots and naming stars!!  Is this a slippery slope?  I've discovered that some key named stars are around Orion, so I've written them down.  I've also discovered that Capella is part of a nice pentagon shape in the sky and I spotted that tonight and wondered about it - I think I could find it again.  Then if I can find this pentagon and Orion I also have a reference for Betelguese :-)

G.  Key to sorting out the fogging issue seems to be taking everything outside at about 2pm and letting it all cool down as the night comes on.

So questions/comments -

I'm sure I was viewing Venus last night in the west low down, really bright and a disk.  Why was the right hand side of the disk (in my view) a bit 'occluded' everyone commented on it, so we much have all viewed it the same.

I also think I found Uranus - it was a bit fuzzy, but def. a disk - up high above the sort of vicinity of Orion maybe a bit to the right?  Sort of a golden colour around 7pm

Then I went really up in the sky in a similar direction up above Uranus? as I'd spotted what looked like another nebula like object a bit by itself high in the sky - telescope was up at about 160-170 degrees from straight down.  I found it easily in the finderscope and then through the lenses - wow! loads and loads and loads of stars when it only seemed to be a patch of light.  I've no idea what it was, but I'd spotted it previously and thought last night I'd take a peek.  I'll have to find a star atlas and see if I can find it and give it a name.

Again I lasted about an hour before it got cold!!

 

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On 23/12/2016 at 22:40, JOC said:

11.  My map compass is proving useful - I'm actually tempted to find an old one and mount it on the telescope.

Just as long as the metal on the scope and all the electrics in the moter don't interfere with it!

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your "nebula" with loads of stars could have been the Pleiades.

Venus will show phases, just like the moon. All the light from solar system objects if reflected light. As Venus is inside our orbit, you will only see it from the side (so to speak), when it is at its full phase, it will be on the opposite side of the sun to us (so we won't see it), when it is directly between us and the sun, it will be in its new phase and, again, not visible. Hope this helps :)

 

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Hi rockystar, ah, phases like the moon - that's just what I wondered - it looked just like the moon with about a quarter to a third of it occluded.  My BF reckoned he had Googled it and couldn't find any reference to not being able to see all of it, but I couldn't see any reason why part of it couldn't be in shade just like our moon is.  I shall be very pleased to tell him that my thought was correct :-) 

Pleiades - with a name to chase Stellarium has found that and I've been able to link it to the location of Orion and I've considered where I was looking last night and looked at some pictures on-line.  I think you are very likely correct :-) - it was quite an impressive area - all those stars, they were really brilliant - I found that the 26mm was quite adequate to view it through.  Stellarium is all very well, but its a small screen and its not easy sometimes to pick out exactly where I am - chasing a 'search' name and comparing to where I think I was is a much easier prospect.  The reason I don't know what I'm at is, at the moment, I am not succeeding 100% with the Goto - it is relying on me lining it up with identified stars and obviously if I get them wrong it won't work.  I am therefore largely finding the objects by hand and then letting the telescope track.  Hence, if I end up on something interesting I probably haven't got a clue what I'm looking at, but obviously I'm not too bad at describing where I've been as I do think you sorted me out straight away.  With many thanks for that.

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3 hours ago, JOC said:

Again I lasted about an hour before it got cold!!

JOC....in answer to note A: you can still wear neoprene at night if you want too? no-one will notice! you'll  probably feel  much warmer,  though I'm  not sure it would be safe or pleasant out of water, to take a  divers leak in order to stay just that  little bit warmer?

You seem to be achieving quite a bit with your observations, more than I at present ?

My area of observation is straight up, so no Planets, only Polaris with a border  consisting of Ursa Major and Cassiopeia and everything in between, depending on their rotational position at my time of viewing? anything else is a bonus from my garden, due to screening and light pollution.
When  I venture to a  darker site,  more often I  view with  binoculars,  as there are just  too many Stars to look at, making it difficult some nights to even pick out the main constellations on Moonless nights.  and my  low powered binoculars provide an enormous  amount of wide field  viewing pleasure.

We have been waiting for some major wind damage here with over 60+ Mph winds, but as is often the case here in Moray! the weather skirts around us, such is the strength and protection provided by the Cairngorm mountain range  and the Mountains of the Highlands and Islands too my West, so have not bothered too much over the last few days, but wont be long before I get out and have a decent nights  observation, just relying on decent weather with no frost or snow cover, as this will be no good for my light adapted eyes!
If I have to wait till Spring around  April/May, then it gets too light to observe with almost permanent twilight that time of the Year, I just cant win!
The Stars and everything up there are not going to leave soon, they will  be here for thousands of Years  after my passing, but I do want/need to consider my TeleVue eyepieces, do I need more, just keep what I have, or pass them on????

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You are starting to make some good progress and working out how your scope performs and how the sky is laid out - great stuff :icon_biggrin:

Uranus does show a small disk at 100x or more. It's in the constellation Pisces at the moment. You can see it with binoculars and in the finder scope. In a scope it's disk is pale blue / green. Neptune is in Aquarius and shows a really tiny disk at 200x plus. It's just about visible in a 50mm finder.

My garden has a similar set of obstacles to observing so I need scopes that I can move about to take advantage of the gaps and clear bits of sky. A 12" dob is the largest that is practical for me because of this.

Keep at it - you will make a few steps progress each time you observe :icon_biggrin:

 

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Hi John

OK, with that as a description of Uranus, it couldn't have been what I viewed - I've been back to stellarium and checked online - I reckon it could have been Aldebaran - I thought that all stars viewed as 'points' of light and that only the planets viewed as 'discs'.  However when I zoomed in on Stellarium it enlarged to a fuzzy 'disc' of light and that is what I saw.  I'd checked it out as it was a lovely bright object in the area I was viewing, but under the 10mm it was very 'fuzzy' but def. in a 'disc' shape.  That in itself I thought was odd as I achieved a lovely 'crisp' edge on Venus, but my bright golden object def. had fuzzy edges just like on Stellarium.  Google says its an orange giant star, so maybe that is big enough to view as more than a 'point' light source.  It all points towards it being Aldebaran and not Uranus, which appears to be a slightly different part of the sky to where I was viewing.

I live in a detached house in the countryside and can move all around it, but it is easier to just stay in one place once I am set up.  At the moment I'm trying to find out just where the 'best' place is.

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So, no point in starting a new thread.

5th Jan 2017

Been out for the last hour or so and after three attempts finally got the calibration stars correct and the Goto started to play ball.  Tonight I've been back to M42 (manually, before I got cross with it and had another try), Christmas lights are down and I turned out the kitchen lights to get a darker environment.  Had the Telescope sitting on top of the manhole cover (that's for my future reference!)  M42 I think I saw some of the nebula.  All I get is loads of stars with 32mm, at 10mm the trapezium splits (into about 4 I think) and I see a sort of pale white cloud in the background.  In terms of it filling the viewfinder I don't think what I can see of it does, but there was a faintly blurry area around the trapezium. 

I tried M31 and with the 10mm was aware of a faint blur in the sky (I don't think M31 was what I thought it was, 'cos it wasn't where I expected it to go so I must have got the number wrong, but the goto certainly found a nebula of some description so is now working tonight - hurray!).  I had read about Alberio, but when it tried for it the star was low in the sky at the back of the house (no matter how good the scope it can't see through bricks!), so that was no go.  Instead I knew that Gemini was in the East and I also knew the two famous star names in that constellation.  Flicking through the list of double stars in the goto unit I found Castor listed.  Luckily it turned out to be a smidgen outside the basket ball hoop and board and we've had a lovely view.  The 10mm shows two clearly separated stars, maybe one is slightly larger than the other?   At the moment just as an experiment I've left that one tracking - it's def. a good one to remember as being a double star I will know when I'm on it properly.  We are off out and back at about 22:20 and I'm going to see if its still in the 10mm eye piece - it's currently dead centre (I'm currently plugged into the mains so power should be OK).  I'm currently frozen solid, but I think its been a useful night.  Hopefully things will get easier as I get used to the big star names.  Tonight I finally used Betelgeuse in Orion for calibration and then it found Polaris which I knew it would be able to see because I could see North myself.  This seems a good plan for another night.

So I count that as a fairly good night so far.  :-D

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