Purchasing 1st Telescope for a Complete Novice & purchasing an addtional 5 Telescopes

[Bass007]

Hello,

Hello All new to the forum and hobby.

I am thinking of buying a telescope, I am an absolute novice, although I have read some literature on the different types of telescopes however I am still undecided on which type to go for. 

I have looked at the Celestron Astro Fi series ( not sure what the actual release date is ), Meade ETX90 Observer Telescope and also the Celestron NexStar 4SE & 5SE. Although not essential I would like to have the option to add my Canon DLSR to take pictures. From what I have read their will be some accessories I will need to get in order to do this. Astro photography is not a priority just a feature i'd like to have for the future.

Being a complete novice I think in my case I would prefer something with a goto system, I will really only have about 2-3 weeks of enjoying this abroad for Christmas, and the summer holidays in July , so I really need something that will be easy to setup and not so time consuming and frustrating.

Also I have decided this year not to but any silly presents or toys for friends or their children so I would like to introduce them to this hobby which I feel is more educational, and will be something new to talk about  so I am also looking for;

3 X Very basic telescopes for kids £50 ( Celestron Power seeker 50AZ ) or soming similar

1 X Telescope around £150 for a beginner 

1 X Telescope around £250 for a beginner

1 X Celeston Astro Fi or Celestron Nexstar 4SE or 5SE, Meade ETX90 ( this is for me again after reading and watching endless youtube video i still don't know which one to go for)

My budget is around the £400 mark however if i'm getting significantly better that I could stretch to £650. 

So far I am fascinated with the moon, seeing nebulas and other plants but I guess thats what everyone says 

Look forward to some feedback.

[Floater]

First, welcome to SGL, Bass.  Have fun with the forum and the hobby.

Second, wow! What an idea! An ambitious but beautifully inspired thought. 

There are others, far more experienced in these matters than I, who will advise.

Please keep us posted on the outcome?

[happy-kat]

Hi

For within your budget for you I'll suggest the skywatcher star discovery which is a 150p reflector, it has your goto and if you stick your camera on the mount with a camera lens you could start astrophotography within the capability that an altaz mounts gives.  There are some cracking images being produced within what the mount can do. Though image capture and processing does take time you'll have a lot to cram into your two mentioned observing periods.

The heritage 130p fits just under your £150 budget.

[happy-kat]

Re reading your intro does your telescope need to be travel holiday friendly? That would put a very different need onto what you look at depending on how you'll transport it.

[Bass007]

19 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Re reading your intro does your telescope need to be travel holiday friendly? That would put a very different need onto what you look at depending on how you'll transport it.

No I will only transport it once to Poland, so being mobile is not a priority 

[Bass007]

34 minutes ago, Floater said:

First, welcome to SGL, Bass.  Have fun with the forum and the hobby.

Second, wow! What an idea! An ambitious but beautifully inspired thought. 

There are others, far more experienced in these matters than I, who will advise.

Please keep us posted on the outcome?

Thank will keep the forum updated, I had no idea how complex this hobby is, how ignorant of me 

[happy-kat]

Perhaps there is an astro group near where you'll be in Poland for general meet and share.

[Bass007]

20 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Perhaps there is an astro group near where you'll be in Poland for general meet and share.

I doubt it, its a very small village. But I would like to buy one to get the kids into it, instead of endless and pointless hours of Minecraft on the Xbox LOL

 

[Dave In Vermont]

Planets, nebulae, etal. telescope? Okay - something which will work on most any & everything out there. I'd tend to steer you towards a small Schmidt-Cassegrain or a Dobsonian-mounted Newtonian-Reflector. But your financial outlay points strongly to the Dobsonian. As no travel, other than getting it to Polska once, is planned - the learning-curve about Newtonians and such dreaded (unnecessarily) topics as 'collimation' won't present much of an obstacle.

Factoring in location and budget, I'd suggest a 150mm F/5 or F/6 Dobsonian Newt. Maybe a 200mm, if you find a good deal on these in the 'Used' market. I'll let others give their takes on scopes for the younger generation. Anything but sentencing the kids to 'Minecraft!' Yikes!

Bon Voyage,

Dave

[Putaendo Patrick]

Great ideas!

Remember, though, some people (both adults and children) take to astronomy and become more and more fascinated. But many don't! They will look through a telescope, go WOW, and then go back to the TV or whatever they were doing before. To interest kids in astronomy usually requires a lot of enthusiasm and encouragement from an adult - don't expect them to make it on their own.

Cheaper telescopes have their weaknesses (otherwise I guess we'd be all using them) and can actually put people off astronomy. If you buy an inexpensive tripod mounted telescope, I would recommend avoiding Equatorial mounts - go with a simpler up-down, left-right Alt-Az mount. They are much simpler to use!

Also consider table-top Dobsonian reflectors. Something like the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-76-mini-dobsonian.html  might well suit a younger child, while the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-100p-tabletop-dobsonian.html  would be an excellent starter for someone a little older. Moving up a little, the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html  is actually quite a sophisticated little telescope for its price/size. Several members here who have much better and bigger equipment use it as a quick grab-and-go telescope with excellent results.

For teenagers and adults, it is useful to remember that more aperture (the diameter of the tube) will allow you to see fainter objects and achieve higher magnifications. Reflector telescopes which use mirrors to focus light are generally cheaper than same size refractors which use glass lenses. Tripod mounts need to be solid, and good ones can be quite expensive. A very effective alternative is the Dobsonian mount for visual observation. You might consider a 6 or 8 inch aperture Dobsonian reflector as the best value for money. For example https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html  or https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html  These telescopes are very simple to use, and serve many people for a lifetime of astronomy!

And for you.... It's very important to realise the problems or, better said, the challenges of astrophotography. You can take really quite good photos of bright objects (principally the Moon) with a cell-phone camera stuck up to the eyepiece. You can take much better photos using a proper camera with an Alt-az go-to mount such as those that come with the Celestron Nexstar 4SE or 5SE. But to take really excellent photos, you are going to need a good equatorial mount with either motors or go-to - and this is relatively to seriously expensive. Another problem is the best telescopes for visual observing are not necessarily the best for photography.

I would suggest three alternatives:

1. Put photography on hold and learn the basics of astronomy with the best option for visual observing. Get an 8" Dobsonian (as linked above) and use it for a year of so. If you then want to pursue the photography angle, sell the Dob (these are popular and you can expect 60-70% of new price in good condition) and upgrade to more specialist equipment.

2. Go with the Celestron Nexstar 4SE or 5SE (the 5" will be an improvement over the 4") knowing that you will have limited but acceptable astrophotography options - and this may be all you want.

3. Plunge into astrophotography right from the start. Consider for example the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-ota.html  mounted on the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq3-pro-synscan-goto.html  There's a long thread with a ton of images showing what forum members have achieved with this set up at:

Although I've linked to Sky-watcher, most of the major manufacturers have similar models with similar characteristics and roughly equal prices. In general, there's not a lot to choose between them.

 

[happy-kat]

If you want to start in astrophotography and have an all round mount that allows you to dip your toes in to a reasonable depth then you do not need an equatorial mount as we are finding by the post linked. The mounts are being pushed to the limits of AltAz imaging capability but for a varierty of reasons these are the mounts these members are using.

This thread the members all do not have an EQ mount and the most active posters use ranging from the star discovery mount to the 6/8SE mount or a goto mount that comes with many skywatcher telescopes like the startravel 102mm, they are all AltAz motorised and goto.

link

[Bass007]

9 hours ago, Putaendo Patrick said:

Great ideas!

Remember, though, some people (both adults and children) take to astronomy and become more and more fascinated. But many don't! They will look through a telescope, go WOW, and then go back to the TV or whatever they were doing before. To interest kids in astronomy usually requires a lot of enthusiasm and encouragement from an adult - don't expect them to make it on their own.

Cheaper telescopes have their weaknesses (otherwise I guess we'd be all using them) and can actually put people off astronomy. If you buy an inexpensive tripod mounted telescope, I would recommend avoiding Equatorial mounts - go with a simpler up-down, left-right Alt-Az mount. They are much simpler to use!

Also consider table-top Dobsonian reflectors. Something like the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-76-mini-dobsonian.html  might well suit a younger child, while the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-100p-tabletop-dobsonian.html  would be an excellent starter for someone a little older. Moving up a little, the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html  is actually quite a sophisticated little telescope for its price/size. Several members here who have much better and bigger equipment use it as a quick grab-and-go telescope with excellent results.

For teenagers and adults, it is useful to remember that more aperture (the diameter of the tube) will allow you to see fainter objects and achieve higher magnifications. Reflector telescopes which use mirrors to focus light are generally cheaper than same size refractors which use glass lenses. Tripod mounts need to be solid, and good ones can be quite expensive. A very effective alternative is the Dobsonian mount for visual observation. You might consider a 6 or 8 inch aperture Dobsonian reflector as the best value for money. For example https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html  or https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html  These telescopes are very simple to use, and serve many people for a lifetime of astronomy!

And for you.... It's very important to realise the problems or, better said, the challenges of astrophotography. You can take really quite good photos of bright objects (principally the Moon) with a cell-phone camera stuck up to the eyepiece. You can take much better photos using a proper camera with an Alt-az go-to mount such as those that come with the Celestron Nexstar 4SE or 5SE. But to take really excellent photos, you are going to need a good equatorial mount with either motors or go-to - and this is relatively to seriously expensive. Another problem is the best telescopes for visual observing are not necessarily the best for photography.

I would suggest three alternatives:

1. Put photography on hold and learn the basics of astronomy with the best option for visual observing. Get an 8" Dobsonian (as linked above) and use it for a year of so. If you then want to pursue the photography angle, sell the Dob (these are popular and you can expect 60-70% of new price in good condition) and upgrade to more specialist equipment.

2. Go with the Celestron Nexstar 4SE or 5SE (the 5" will be an improvement over the 4") knowing that you will have limited but acceptable astrophotography options - and this may be all you want.

3. Plunge into astrophotography right from the start. Consider for example the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-ota.html  mounted on the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq3-pro-synscan-goto.html  There's a long thread with a ton of images showing what forum members have achieved with this set up at:

Although I've linked to Sky-watcher, most of the major manufacturers have similar models with similar characteristics and roughly equal prices. In general, there's not a lot to choose between them.

 

Thanks, I've checked this out, i have read and some say that the EQ tripods are more difficult to use is that true?

[brantuk]

It's not really a question of whether eq is more difficult to use than alt/az. It's more a question of which is the appropriate mount to choose for your purpose. You wouldn't buy a formula one race car to do the shopping, and you wouldn't buy a basic family saloon to go desert rallying.

Eq mounts make use of the Earth's rotation for tracking the sky in a single plane - which is very useful for imaging and guiding. Alt/az mounts have to be moved by motors in two planes to track the sky - which makes imaging more difficult and less accurate - but fine for observing.

In terms of setting up and getting them going - there's really not a lot in it - a small alt/az dob (eg 8" or 10") is maybe the quickest/easiest - but we're only talking about a difference of 5 or 10 mins which, in terms of the overall session time, is pretty negligible. Hth

[Putaendo Patrick]

1 minute ago, Bass007 said:

i have read and some say that the EQ tripods are more difficult to use is that true?

Yes, maybe, but for different reasons.

EQ mounts are designed to follow the course of the stars as our Earth rotates and they "move" across the sky. To do this precisely, they need to very accurately aligned to Polaris in the Northern Hemisphere (and, in fact, Polaris is not really true North - it too rotates slightly and a time-based off-set is necessary, usually achieved with a miniature polar telescope within the mount itself).

For astrophotography a good EQ mount is ideal as it allows long and/or multiple exposures and, as it sweeps on the N-S axis, is much smoother than a go-to Alt-Az mount. To set up a good EQ mount to work accurately is not difficult with a bit of practice, but it does take time and patience. 

However, for visual observing an EQ mount doesn't have great advantages. In particular the cheaper EQ1 or 2 models are not precise and usually have rather shaky tripods - thus negating the benefits. For children, I would certainly recommend a tripod Alt-Az over EQ as being very much simpler and more intuitive to use. Dobsonian mounts are even simpler to use - just place them on a reasonably level surface and you're ready to go!

As Brantuk says, it really does depend where you want to go. There's another fantastic thread with lots of images well worth a look. All these photos have been taken without EQ mounts - but look carefully at what specific equipment is being used:

 

[Bass007]

16 hours ago, Putaendo Patrick said:

Great ideas!

Remember, though, some people (both adults and children) take to astronomy and become more and more fascinated. But many don't! They will look through a telescope, go WOW, and then go back to the TV or whatever they were doing before. To interest kids in astronomy usually requires a lot of enthusiasm and encouragement from an adult - don't expect them to make it on their own.

Cheaper telescopes have their weaknesses (otherwise I guess we'd be all using them) and can actually put people off astronomy. If you buy an inexpensive tripod mounted telescope, I would recommend avoiding Equatorial mounts - go with a simpler up-down, left-right Alt-Az mount. They are much simpler to use!

Also consider table-top Dobsonian reflectors. Something like the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-76-mini-dobsonian.html  might well suit a younger child, while the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-100p-tabletop-dobsonian.html  would be an excellent starter for someone a little older. Moving up a little, the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html  is actually quite a sophisticated little telescope for its price/size. Several members here who have much better and bigger equipment use it as a quick grab-and-go telescope with excellent results.

For teenagers and adults, it is useful to remember that more aperture (the diameter of the tube) will allow you to see fainter objects and achieve higher magnifications. Reflector telescopes which use mirrors to focus light are generally cheaper than same size refractors which use glass lenses. Tripod mounts need to be solid, and good ones can be quite expensive. A very effective alternative is the Dobsonian mount for visual observation. You might consider a 6 or 8 inch aperture Dobsonian reflector as the best value for money. For example https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html  or https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html  These telescopes are very simple to use, and serve many people for a lifetime of astronomy!

And for you.... It's very important to realise the problems or, better said, the challenges of astrophotography. You can take really quite good photos of bright objects (principally the Moon) with a cell-phone camera stuck up to the eyepiece. You can take much better photos using a proper camera with an Alt-az go-to mount such as those that come with the Celestron Nexstar 4SE or 5SE. But to take really excellent photos, you are going to need a good equatorial mount with either motors or go-to - and this is relatively to seriously expensive. Another problem is the best telescopes for visual observing are not necessarily the best for photography.

I would suggest three alternatives:

1. Put photography on hold and learn the basics of astronomy with the best option for visual observing. Get an 8" Dobsonian (as linked above) and use it for a year of so. If you then want to pursue the photography angle, sell the Dob (these are popular and you can expect 60-70% of new price in good condition) and upgrade to more specialist equipment.

2. Go with the Celestron Nexstar 4SE or 5SE (the 5" will be an improvement over the 4") knowing that you will have limited but acceptable astrophotography options - and this may be all you want.

3. Plunge into astrophotography right from the start. Consider for example the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-ota.html  mounted on the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq3-pro-synscan-goto.html  There's a long thread with a ton of images showing what forum members have achieved with this set up at:

Although I've linked to Sky-watcher, most of the major manufacturers have similar models with similar characteristics and roughly equal prices. In general, there's not a lot to choose between them.

 

Thanks Patrick I've been researching all day at work and I like the option of plunging right into astrophotography the Skywatcher 130 & EQ3. Looking at some of the images I must say i'm blown away, since researching the EQ3 and watching videos online I now realise the importance of the tripod. I have one question if I were to go with the EQ3 you suggested and go for the  the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-200p-ds-ota.html instead would it be worth it? I realise that this will exceed my budget but I could stretch if the gains were worthwhile.

 

[Bass007]

6 hours ago, brantuk said:

It's not really a question of whether eq is more difficult to use than alt/az. It's more a question of which is the appropriate mount to choose for your purpose. You wouldn't buy a formula one race car to do the shopping, and you wouldn't buy a basic family saloon to go desert rallying.

Eq mounts make use of the Earth's rotation for tracking the sky in a single plane - which is very useful for imaging and guiding. Alt/az mounts have to be moved by motors in two planes to track the sky - which makes imaging more difficult and less accurate - but fine for observing.

In terms of setting up and getting them going - there's really not a lot in it - a small alt/az dob (eg 8" or 10") is maybe the quickest/easiest - but we're only talking about a difference of 5 or 10 mins which, in terms of the overall session time, is pretty negligible. Hth

Super Giant, I totally relate to what you mean, Like I mention I did a lot of research today and yes looks like the EQ is the one for asltrophotograpy. Im now considering stretching my budget to the £1k only if it would be beneficial, i'm willing to wait another month to save up and get something better just before xmas.

[Putaendo Patrick]

Personally I wouldn't put a larger scope on an EQ3. You will be over the payload intended for the EQ3 plus a secondary problem using large telescopes for astrophotography is they will be very susceptible to vibrations from any wind or breeze.

The minimum I would recommend would be a HEQ5, but even this is debatable, and a HEQ5 costs almost double. Astrophotography can be a very expensive hobby indeed!

It's also worth remembering that while larger aperture is better for visual observation, it is not so necessary for photography as the light is collected cumulatively. In fact at the top level of astrophotography, a lot of people are using very high quality 80mm aperture Apochromatic refractor telescopes.

[happy-kat]

You don't have to use a telescope to image. Members are getting great results with camera plus camera lens, much lighter so less weight demanding.

[Bass007]

I want to observe and take pictures. Looks like having the best of both worlds is expensive.

Also I've kept reading and I see that spending money on the tripos/mount seems to be more beneficial than spending more on the actual telescope.

i was also wondering, not that it's an issue most of the recommendations are for the skywatchers telescopes is it better value  for your money?

i am now leaning towards https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq5-pro-synscan-goto.html  but I am still undecided on the telescope . Spending this sort of money I want to ensure that when I first look through it that I will be impressed to keep my interest and maintain the enthusiasm I currently hence why I really don't want to rush this. 

[Floater]

23 minutes ago, Bass007 said:

I want to observe and take pictures. Looks like having the best of both worlds is expensive.

I want to ensure that when I first look through it that I will be impressed to keep my interest and maintain the enthusiasm I currently hence why I really don't want to rush this. 

Bass, the best of both worlds will always be expensive. Even the best in one world is expensive.

But may I suggest, with all respect, that you are trying to run before you can walk. Your idea of delving into the world (universe) of amateur astronomy and taking your family/friends with you is ambitious and laudable. And your work into research of the subject is commendable and worthy. But your goal of instant and guaranteed fulfilment is unnatainable. That fulfilment will - and can - come only through experience, trial and error, refinement, compromise, understanding and a host of other stuff. Further, your idea of being impressed/fulfilled may not be someone else's.

Please don't take this as anything other than encouragement to go ahead with your original plan. And of course you should do your utmost to ensure the best outcome. It's just that I worry you may be trying to over-analyse and micro-manage. You have good options before you. Set a budget. More money does not mean more satisfaction.

And then you can spend the rest of your life having fun instead of worrying. ???

 

[Bass007]

Floater, I agree with everything you said. Honestly I really underestimated the knowledge required and the learning curve involved, I had no idea how complex this hobby can be.

Yes trying to introduce friends is probably a long shot but I'm willing to take the gamble even out of 5 people I would be happy if one of them take up the hobb ( I will report back on this after Xmas

Yes my goal of instant gratification is probably ambitious but I know myself, I need to be impressed within reason to maintain my interest, and yes now I realise that knowledge and experience is more than half the battle, and I must stress at this point if it wasn't for this forum I would have probably just have delved in without adequate research.

budget is set at £1k I want this to include any accessories I may need Barlow, T2 rings adapters , magnifiers, extenders etc. A Goto system is a must.  I wanted a hard case but again after researching they are so expensive so this will be post purchase at a later date.

In the meantime I will continue researching and try and take and understand as much as possible until my final decision and purchase date 8th December where I will take the plunge into this complex but fascinating world of astronomy.

Keep the recommendations coming in as this forum has been fantastic thus far

 

[k9wis]

I find a lot of folks that come to our planetarium get frustrated with their telescopes because they cant find anything and a ready to donate them to us..Before we take them we invite them to one of our star parties, show them what they can see in their scopes when they know where to look and they tend to take them home with a whole new attitude.

Brian

PS sure wish I could get adopted into  that circle so you would buy me a new telescope...lol

[Bass007]

Hello All, so i've decided to go for the Skywatcher EQ5 Pro Goto and the Skywatcher ED80 DS Pro. I will need to get some other eye pieces but i'm unsure which ones its become confusing again   for the xmas break i will use this time to familiarise myself with the equipment, I will not be doing any astrophotograpy until the new year

For the other Telescopes I've decided to get : 3 X The Sky-Watcher Heritage-76 and 2 X Celestron Astro Master 103EQ MD - Xmas shopping DONE