What would you do?

[Anthonyexmouth]

Given the choice between a sw ed80 plus reducer and an explore scientific carbon ed80 with no reducer what would you choose given they work out about the same price. Reason for choice would be appreciated

[Shelster1973]

Am  a newt man myself so knlow very little about apos, but given the option between the two I would go for the carbon one.

Reasons for as follows

1 - Its carbon fibre and anything in carbon fibre is cool and better 

2 - It is a faster scope (anyting faster must be better).  This does have a few down sides though.....am sure soeone with greater knowledge will shout out about that.

3 - It ishould be lighter so leaves more capacity on your mount to add in the future without overloading.

[ronin]

The ES is a triplet and I think the SW ED80 is a doublet. The ES should have better colour control. So if for AP the ES.

I would take the ES for the triplet aspect over the doublet. Going to weigh more and 3 lumps of glass samdwiched will take longer cool down.

I see the ES .de site has reduced the cost. It was 990.01€, now 990.00€. A whole 1 cent, or whatever they call it.

[Anthonyexmouth]

Some of the things that I don't get. Specs I can find for both put the sw at 7kg and the carbon at 2.5kg. can anyone confirm this. Also max mag for the es carbon states 160x I think and some state 260x for the sw. Can this be right? 

[Ben the Ignorant]

I don't own an Explore 80mm f/6 triplet but I have a TS 80mm f/6 triplet, and I've star-tested a friend's Tecnosky 80mm f/6 three-lens scope; both very good. Regarding 80mm f/7.5 doublet apos, I've looked through 4 or 5 of them, of different generations. The doublets are clean and sharp visually, one of them outresolving the others. They were all very good, except the very first generation Orion which showed a little chromatic blur, and was somewhat off-center maybe .

The f/6 have 480mm f.l., the f/7.5 have 600mm f.l., but with a 0.8x reducer you're back at 480mm, so I'd say take the triplet to do away with the added reducer. You might save quite a bit of money if you forget about black carbon fiber: in the daytime it makes the tube warmer, worsening inside turbulence, and makes no difference in focus stability in such short tubes. You'll have to check focus between shots with either material, anyway, standard procedure.

White-painted aluminum helps with cooldown, costs less, makes the gear more visible in the night, and chipped paint can be touched up, however I don't think chipped carbon fiber can be restored.

[Anthonyexmouth]

Theses very little in price difference for the carbon it seems. I'm just thinking ahead about weight in case I add a second scope, might give me more options

[Ben the Ignorant]

9 minutes ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

Some of the things that I don't get. Specs I can find for both put the sw at 7kg and the carbon at 2.5kg. can anyone confirm this. Also max mag for the es carbon states 160x I think and some state 260x for the sw. Can this be right? 

The difference in weight is only a few hundred grams, couldn't be more. Regarding max power, I can reach 240x with my triplet, but the ad said max power is 200x. My 80mm achro does not do well on planets above 150x, but it can do 256x on doubles because there's no fine contrast there; just two disks and black sky. I think my friends used their apo doublets at 260x on doubles. Max power depends on conditions, eyepieces, and the individual scope. Any modern 80mm apo can reach 200x.

[Anthonyexmouth]

Flo has the es80 metal tube at 570 and the carbon at 606 . Or am I missing something? I would need a finder though

[Ben the Ignorant]

3 minutes ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

Theses very little in price difference for the carbon it seems. I'm just thinking ahead about weight in case I add a second scope, might give me more options

I was thinking about the TS, Tecnosky, and other clones when I said aluminum triplets cost noticeably less.

[Anthonyexmouth]

Just looked at the tecnosky, that's pushing my budget even further. Lol

[RayD]

I can definitely vouch for the ES 80 ED - f6 (not carbon) as I have one and use it for imaging.  I don't use a reducer (not sure there is one for the ES) but use the Hotech FF, which is excellent.  Mine is the older non essentials model which didn't have a very good focuser, so I changed for Moonlite, but I believe that isn't the case with the newer ones.

As far as carbon goes, my understanding is that there are a few benefits, being better thermal characteristics, so quicker cool down and less temperature variance and possibility of thermal flexing and obviously lighter, but the ES 80 standard really isn't very heavy, and I would have thought this would only be considered a benefit on the larger OTA's.  I guess the down side is that all comes at a cost, which may or may not be worth the addition?

As some else noted, one is a triplet and one a doublet, which I understand makes quite a bit of difference if you intend to image with it.

Either way I'm sure they will both provide great viewing and images so enjoy.

[Anthonyexmouth]

With the es ed80 the carbon is only just over £30 more than the Ali version Think I'm leaning toward the es over the sw now, there is a reducer for the es but it's £250 . 

[RayD]

At only £30 more I would say it's well worth it, and the carbon does look pretty special.

I didn't know about the reducer, but if imaging you will definitely need a FF unless it's a FF/FR.

It is a great little OTA, I'm well pleased with it and use it loads more than my C8.

[Anthonyexmouth]

How critical would a ff be with a cropped sensor dlsr?

 

[Anthonyexmouth]

If I'm gonna need this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reducersflatteners/explore-scientific-3-07x-reducer-corrector-field-flattener.html I might need to stick with the sw ed80

[RayD]

I don't know for sure but I would have thought very.  APS-C is bigger than my Atik 460EX sensor and I get oval stars in the corners without the FF attached, but none with it on.

[RayD]

I think with that intended for the f8 and f10 APO's it would make a noticeable difference, but at f6, the ES80 isn't restrictively slow.  I think that says it can be used on the ES80, but I don't think it's designed for it.  I've not felt a need for a FR and the FOV is excellent already.

Obviously you need to go with the budget, and I'm not sure how good the SW is, but with either I wouldn't think you'd be disappointed.

[Anthonyexmouth]

So what ff do you use? 

[RayD]

I have an original ES one, which is pretty good, but when I had the original focuser, which wasn't very good, it was loose so I got the Hotech SCA, which uses a clever rubber ring arrangement to centre and grip in the tube.  Now I have the Moonlite both will work great, but I have the Hotech connected permanently to my filter wheel, so tend to use that all the time.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reducersflatteners/hotech-sca-field-flattener.html

[RayD]

I can take a couple of images with my EOS 450d attached with and without the FF to see the difference if that would help?  That is APS-C so it should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

[Anthonyexmouth]

That makes it a bit more affordable. What's it like as a visual scope?

[Anthonyexmouth]

1 minute ago, RayD said:

I can take a couple of images with my EOS 450d attached with and without the FF to see the difference if that would help?  That is APS-C so it should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

It's a 760d I've got so same sized sensor isn't to. Would be good to see. 

[RayD]

I think it's fine.  

Obviously it's a short FL so not as "beefy" as my C8, nor is it a high end unit like a TAK, so it's not totally flawless, but for general viewing I think it puts in a pretty good performance for the affordable price range.  I use it mostly for imaging, which it's great for, but my other half likes visuals, and she has never complained.

[RayD]

Yes they are both APS-C so should be a pretty good comparison.  I'll sort them out and post here.  I'll do it with the ES FF, which you can get for really reasonable price.

[Anthonyexmouth]

thats good to know, ive been using an old europa 150 newt for 2 decades but needs the mirror recoating so will probalby ditch it and get a bigger dob for visial at a later date, everyone who visits always wants to see planets..