What would you do?

[RayD]

Yes I would say a Dob Newt is always ultimately going to be better for visuals, but for a small scope the ES80 is not a bad performer, and is much easier to cart in and out.

If visuals are really important to you have you considered a slightly bigger APO, although the Dob I would have thought would be the way to go for that.

[Ben the Ignorant]

1 hour ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

Just looked at the tecnosky, that's pushing my budget even further. Lol

Tecnosky 80/480 triplet with 2.5" rack-and-pinion focuser: 690€

http://shop.tecnosky.it/Articolo.asp?SessionID=0D5AAE7E-77DE-42E2-BFB7-A009D3F25BCB&GetInfo=TKedt80&AddScore=TKedt80&Score=1

[Anthonyexmouth]

im really interested in getting into AP so thats my main focus. but always nice to have something folks can look through and a big dob is fairly cheap, but thats something for later. my needs come first

[Anthonyexmouth]

13 minutes ago, Ben the Ignorant said:

Tecnosky 80/480 triplet with 2.5" rack-and-pinion focuser: 690€

http://shop.tecnosky.it/Articolo.asp?SessionID=0D5AAE7E-77DE-42E2-BFB7-A009D3F25BCB&GetInfo=TKedt80&AddScore=TKedt80&Score=1

how would this compare with the es ed80? 

[Anthonyexmouth]

2 minutes ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

how would this compare with the es ed80? 

how annoying, when i try and switch to english i cant find it on the site

[Ben the Ignorant]

The carbon Explore is sold for 999€ from Explore's own website:

http://www.explorescientific.co.uk/en/Telescope-optics/Explore-Scientific-ED-APO-80mm-f-6-FCD-1-CF-Version-2-0.html

They include a dielectric diagonal (worth about 100€, I guess) and a 30mm "widefield" eyepiece but they don't say which type, so I assume it must be basic and not worth a fortune. The Tecno has a larger 2.5" drawtube that must avoid vigneting even with very wide sensors (don't know if you'll end up using a large or a small one). It also has a rack-and-pinion gear that should be more stable than the Explore's crayford, since the former does not work with friction.

There are some large differences in price between the continent and the UK, I didn't expect they would be that big, and while many scopes are clones of each other, certain features are not copy-and-pasted. One really needs to shop around and check each detail carefully against present and possible future uses. Wasn't easy for my visual scopes, seems even more complicated when you look for an astrograph.

Edit: The Tecno's mounting rings look like they hold the tube more firmly than the Explore's L-shoe; seems to be able to flex a little but enough to impact guiding? I don't know.

[RayD]

Yes a few people have noted the shoe on the ES as not ideal, but many have also said they had had no issues with it.  I have mine in rings and use a side-by-side mount for my guide scope so don't have any flexure issues.

I think all the ES range now have 2 1/2" focusers, and I believe all the new ones are rack & Pinion rather than friction, albeit Crayford style, but I could be completely wrong there.

It's about what you feel is best for your requirements and of course budget.  I suspect the techno one would be fine, but I don't have any experience with them, only the ES, so couldn't really offer advice in this regard.  However, when something appears to be the same but for a lower price, generally something has been sacrificed in order to reduce the price.

I think the carbon ES on FLO is cheap as it is V2 and they now market V3, so these are probably old stock, so a valid reason for being cheaper?

I think any 80MM ED with good quality Hoya FCD1 glass is going to be a decent platform for some pretty good imaging.

 

[Ben the Ignorant]

Stellarvue has received complaints about the spongy felt between the rings and tube causing misguiding, so they have issued an astrograph with feltless rings, metal against metal. Saw that in a video from Sky&Telescope's website. If that's not overkill, flexure in the L-shoe could be real, too.

Regarding value in telescopes: exchange rates, renewal of scope ranges, competition between brands and stores, glass type, and whatnot don't allow to assume cheaper has to be inferior. Plus, some stores grant rebates, and some people don't pay VAT. The more you parse features, the more value becomes an individual thing.

[RayD]

10 minutes ago, Ben the Ignorant said:

If that's not overkill, flexure in the L-shoe could be real, too.

Couldn't agree more.  Some say yes, some say no, guess it's the luck of the draw.  I have the rings (nylon or darvic lined not felt) and these are great, and I've not noticed any flexure, albeit that's not saying there isn't any at all.

Ultimately the Op's dilemma is going to be resolved by personal choice, and what he is prepared to compromise on to obtain what he is looking to achieve.  As I said previously, any one of the 80MM APO's with decent glass is going to offer acceptable performance, so it's almost a "flip a coin" decision with the ones in his price range, as they are all much of a muchness.

[Ben the Ignorant]

Then we have the unexpected value: my TS triplet has a whiter and more symmetrical intra/extra star test than my friend's Tecnosky triplet, no doubt because I have FPL-53 glass, and he has FPL-51. Makes no discernable difference in prime focus imaging, not compared yet in high-res but I doubt it changes much.

However, his scope is well baffled from the factory, with four black rings behind the lens cell. My scope, on the other hand, had only one, the serrated one at the rear. I'm still wondering if they forgot to insert them in my apo or if it's by design, but I had to craft two extra baffles, and place them at the right place:

Seen from the focuser end, only the baffles' back is visible, and no part of the tube shows, so three baffles do the job, and four are one too many inside the Tecnosky's tube. Regardless, I did't mind making that little mod, and it costed me time only. But my friend admits he would botch the job, or pay for having it done by professionals. That kind of thing changes value after you buy, it's getting complicated.

 

[Anthonyexmouth]

19 hours ago, RayD said:

Yes a few people have noted the shoe on the ES as not ideal, but many have also said they had had no issues with it.  I have mine in rings and use a side-by-side mount for my guide scope so don't have any flexure issues.

I think all the ES range now have 2 1/2" focusers, and I believe all the new ones are rack & Pinion rather than friction, albeit Crayford style, but I could be completely wrong there.

It's about what you feel is best for your requirements and of course budget.  I suspect the techno one would be fine, but I don't have any experience with them, only the ES, so couldn't really offer advice in this regard.  However, when something appears to be the same but for a lower price, generally something has been sacrificed in order to reduce the price.

I think the carbon ES on FLO is cheap as it is V2 and they now market V3, so these are probably old stock, so a valid reason for being cheaper?

I think any 80MM ED with good quality Hoya FCD1 glass is going to be a decent platform for some pretty good imaging.

 

can you tell me what the es hex focuser is and also did you take the L bracket off before fitting rings? if so are there any issues taking it off?

[ollypenrice]

'Carbon' is just a buzzword. It is beginning to replace 'Turbo' and 'Quantum' which are also buzzwords. They are about as useful as words like 'Squattock' and 'Dinglebury' which I just made up. TEC, Takahashi and Astro Physics refractors do not use carbon fibre tubes. Ahem. Reality check. 

Triplet? Doublet? This make? That make? Carbon? Corn Flakes? The talk means nothing. Look at the images out there on the net, not so much the narrowband as the broadband where colour correction is tested. It amazes me that Takahashi Europe have endless narrowband images on their website because these tell you, maybe, about field flatness and speed but have nothing to say about colour correction, doublet, triplet, etc etc.

Then there's quality control. Tak are far from exempt but TEC and AP don't have any issues so far as I know. For the rest, buy only from a dealer with a perfect returns policy. Don't even think about saving fifty quid.

If there are good images from a scope they'll be out there somewhere on the net. Astrobin is a good source.

Olly

[RayD]

1 hour ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

can you tell me what the es hex focuser is and also did you take the L bracket off before fitting rings? if so are there any issues taking it off?

My understanding is that the "hex focuser" is just the newer one that ES use on their newer essentials range.  They are different to the older type that you see in that picture of my OTA.  I believe the newer ones have rack and pinion type operation as opposed to friction, but I'm not absolutely certain on that.  Perhaps someone with an essentials model can confirm?

As you can see below I now have a Moonlite focuser which is a lot more rigid, has a better locking mechanism, and above all is motor driven.  Ultimately when locking the older type, screwing in the locking bolt cause quite a bit of focus and image shift, which isn't ideal.  I believe the new Hex focuser has fixed all these issues so you shouldn't have any problems in this regard.

Finally removing the L foot is necessary to fit rings, but this is dead easy, and is just a single bolt.  I have seem some just add a single front ring to the foot, which seems reasonable.  The older type that I have had the finder on the tube (hence the black tape on my tube covering the holes), but the essentials has the finder bracket on the focuser, so this isn' an issue.

As Olly notes, higher end is obviously better, but I wouldn't think you'll be getting Tak, AP or TEC for your budget, so the choice is about what you feel will deliver what you would expect for the money spent.

Hope this helps.

 

[Anthonyexmouth]

ok, i think i have made up my mind. but these last few questions could change it. i am gonna wait a few days and then drop the cash on a new neq6 and es ed80 cf

 

now

1. with a fast scope like the es ed80 how useful/important is a reducer

2. will a flattener be an essential buy if i am using a cropped sensor dslr

3. after this initial purchase what should be the next 5 things you would recommend saving for

4. with that initial kit what would my best/easiest first targets be