Atik 460EX is this a camera fault

[andyo]

Hi all

Just got my atik 460ex and couldn't wait to try it out so this evening had a clear dusk but clouds where imminent so thought I would point the scope at the moon just for a quick tester.However when I took a few shots there was clearly a band of light stretching down from the moon to the edge of the frame(or up depending what software you use to open it). When I rotate the camera the band of light stays in the same place. I took a flat frame using a light panel placed over the end of the scope and that appears fine. I often used the now sold Atik 314L+ to view the moon and that was fine even in the middle of the day so I fear this may be a camera fault. I have attached the moon shot and flat for anyone who may be able to explain what is causing this. The light band is easily noticeable when you stretch the raw frame.Thanks for any help in advance

flat_015L.fit

Moon_001B_010L.fit

[physicus]

47 minutes ago, andyo said:

Hi all

Just got my atik 460ex and couldn't wait to try it out so this evening had a clear dusk but clouds where imminent so thought I would point the scope at the moon just for a quick tester.However when I took a few shots there was clearly a band of light stretching down from the moon to the edge of the frame(or up depending what software you use to open it). When I rotate the camera the band of light stays in the same place. I took a flat frame using a light panel placed over the end of the scope and that appears fine. I often used the now sold Atik 314L+ to view the moon and that was fine even in the middle of the day so I fear this may be a camera fault. I have attached the moon shot and flat for anyone who may be able to explain what is causing this. The light band is easily noticeable when you stretch the raw frame.Thanks for any help in advance

flat_015L.fit

Moon_001B_010L.fit

If you turn the camera and the artifact doesn't change, doesn't that suggest it's not the camera?  Maybe some internal reflection?  Anyhow, that's an extremely bright image with the gain turned up; it looks okay at the correct exposure for the moon.  Also, your artifact lines up with the moon image, so it's not some inherent fault across the chip.  I have a 'funny' myself with the 460, when I switch to and from 'fine focus' mode in Nebulosity (I have to disconnect and reconnect the camera to avoid a bright bar along the top; but that's not your issue here). 

[johnrt]

If the band of light stays in the same place when you rotate the camera then that means the camera can't be the issue, my bet is on an internal reflection in your OTA.

 

[andyo]

1 hour ago, physicus said:

If you turn the camera and the artifact doesn't change, doesn't that suggest it's not the camera? 

Thanks for your reply Tim and yes that's what I thought as it makes perfect sense until I saw a video made by Atik about dust motes and in it they say if you rotate the camera and the dust mote stays in the same place then it is on the camera sensor I don't follow how but that's what they said. Check the link below under maintenance tab.

http://www.atik-cameras.com/tutorials/

I don't think it is an internal reflection as I never had this with the 314L+ and its exactly the same optical train.I did notice it was lining up directly with the moon and think you could be onto something with it being the gain.I just got back out and managed a few goes focusing on deneb and it all looked ok no bright band. I have sent the raw files to FLO I am sure they will get to the bottom of it. After spending so much on the camera rather be safe than sorry.

[andyo]

2 minutes ago, johnrt said:

If the band of light stays in the same place when you rotate the camera then that means the camera can't be the issue, my bet is on an internal reflection in your OTA.

 

Thanks for the reply Johnrt, I was just posting a reply at the same time you posted yours 

[Gina]

Your image looks fine here.  Don't forget that the 460EX is a more sensitive and hence more prone to overload.  Reduce your exposure and it will be fine.

 

[andyo]

1 hour ago, Gina said:

Your image looks fine here.  Don't forget that the 460EX is a more sensitive and hence more prone to overload.  Reduce your exposure and it will be fine.

 

Thanks for the reply Gina, I could be worrying over nothing  it's just I never had this with the 314L+ and thats why I started to think it could be a camera fault, it may well be just a sensitivity issue as it all looked ok when I focused on Deneb later but then them dam clouds came rolling in lol

[ChrisLX200]

I get the same thing with the 490EX if pointed at the bright Moon, so I guess it's normal..

ChrisH

[ollypenrice]

I've had this with every CCD camera I've ever owned so the surprise, for me, is that Andy was able to do moon imaging with the 314. It's just the brightness defeating the anti-blooming gates, I suppose. You might try very short exposures and either a red or an Ha filter but I have never succeeded in using my DS cameras on the moon.

Olly

[andyo]

15 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

I've had this with every CCD camera I've ever owned so the surprise, for me, is that Andy was able to do moon imaging with the 314. It's just the brightness defeating the anti-blooming gates, I suppose. You might try very short exposures and either a red or an Ha filter but I have never succeeded in using my DS cameras on the moon.

Olly

 

2 hours ago, ChrisLX200 said:

I get the same thing with the 490EX if pointed at the bright Moon, so I guess it's normal..

ChrisH

Thanks for the reply guys much appreciated. Olly I wont be using the camera for moon imaging nor did I with the 314L+ but on occasions I would slew the scope to the moon just for viewing or when aligning and never got this with the 314L+ maybe it just shows what a cracking little camera this is and I suppose  if anyone wished they could actually use it for moon imaging. I am relieved  to hear that this is normal for a CCD camera and not a fault as my only experience with ccd cameras was with the 314L+.

[ollypenrice]

1 hour ago, andyo said:

 

Thanks for the reply guys much appreciated. Olly I wont be using the camera for moon imaging nor did I with the 314L+ but on occasions I would slew the scope to the moon just for viewing or when aligning and never got this with the 314L+ maybe it just shows what a cracking little camera this is and I suppose  if anyone wished they could actually use it for moon imaging. I am relieved  to hear that this is normal for a CCD camera and not a fault as my only experience with ccd cameras was with the 314L+.

I don't think it's a fault, I think it's an example of CCD virtue! Too sensitive...

Olly

[Zakalwe]

 

Its not a fault, just the brightness of the moon flooding the camera pixels. My Atik 428 does exactly the same and I assume its the same effect that you see on non-anti-blooming cameras where the star images are often streaked.

You're worrying about nothing- after all, you only see it when you point the camera at a superbright object. In other words, you only see the effect when using the camera for a task for which it is not designed. It's a bit like uisng your washing machine as a cement mixer and then wondering if the washing machine is faulty as it doesnt mix the cement right.

I have taken moon images with my CCD, though it needed the shortest possible exposure and a H-a filter. By the way, a H-a filter makes an excellent seeing filter, a bit like a red longpass filter.

 

 

[Gina]

Yes, I use an Ha filter for moon imaging otherwise it's far too bright.  And yes it does overload a 460EX (without a narrow band filter) which has a minimum exposure of 1ms as I recall.  ZWO cameras are better in this respect as they go down to 32μs.

[ollypenrice]

5 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

 

Its not a fault, just the brightness of the moon flooding the camera pixels. My Atik 428 does exactly the same and I assume its the same effect that you see on non-anti-blooming cameras where the star images are often streaked.

You're worrying about nothing- after all, you only see it when you point the camera at a superbright object. In other words, you only see the effect when using the camera for a task for which it is not designed. It's a bit like uisng your washing machine as a cement mixer and then wondering if the washing machine is faulty as it doesnt mix the cement right.

I have taken moon images with my CCD, though it needed the shortest possible exposure and a H-a filter. By the way, a H-a filter makes an excellent seeing filter, a bit like a red longpass filter.

 

 

My cement mixer makes a great washing machine but my washing machine isn't too good following my cement mixing experiments... The cement mixer gives all my clothes this really chic Robinson Crusoe look...

Olly

[andyo]

8 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

you only see the effect when using the camera for a task for which it is not designed.

Thanks for the reply Zakalwe, Yes I definitely wont be using the camera for moon imaging it was just that I had only just got the camera and at dusk there was clear sky with clouds forecast for later so like a kid with a new toy decided to have a go and the only thing to look at was the moon. Only having the Atik 314L+ to compare with which was able to show the moon fine I started to think the worst and that maybe this was a camera fault. I have since been able to view some DSOs unfortunately only fleetingly but enough to see that all is ok with the camera. 

[Zakalwe]

1 hour ago, andyo said:

Thanks for the reply Zakalwe, Yes I definitely wont be using the camera for moon imaging it was just that I had only just got the camera and at dusk there was clear sky with clouds forecast for later so like a kid with a new toy decided to have a go and the only thing to look at was the moon. Only having the Atik 314L+ to compare with which was able to show the moon fine I started to think the worst and that maybe this was a camera fault. I have since been able to view some DSOs unfortunately only fleetingly but enough to see that all is ok with the camera. 

Enjoy the new camera. I hope that you get better skies than me!