Best EP for DSO

[Highburymark]

11 hours ago, Richard Hather said:

Hi mark so you would go for 24mm 13mm and a 10mm?

Would it be more beneficial to replace the 13mm with a 16mm?

If you had just three eyepieces, and one of them was a 8/10mm for higher magnification, then you would want to space out your options - so your medium power option would be perhaps 16mm. Obviously if you get a good Barlow, then you get double the options so you need to take those into consideration.

However, I have a serious warning that I must mention - like many others on SGL, when I started upgrading my kit I methodically planned my first 3 EPs (I had a C6 also and I bought 10mm, 17.3mm and 24mm EPs to add to the stock plossls that came with the scope) but once the EP bug has struck, I found - like countless other victims caught in this addiction - the initial mathematics are somewhat academic. You will have an urge to fill in the gaps, even if they don't really exist. You will find yourself reading this forum late into the (cloudy) night, and constantly checking the classifieds. You'll get to know many of the contributors to SGL and their warm, friendly, encouraging advice. By then it's already too late. You'll have ordered a new flight case for your growing brood of ES/TV/Pentax EPs, and you will not stop until that case is full.....

 

 

[Louis D]

On 6/4/2016 at 18:38, Highburymark said:

it would be wasted on dsos apart from the odd double star

I find I quite like trying to break up compact globular clusters at high powers, so one more use for a high powered eyepiece.

[Louis D]

On 6/5/2016 at 08:18, Highburymark said:

However, I have a serious warning that I must mention - like many others on SGL, when I started upgrading my kit I methodically planned my first 3 EPs (I had a C6 also and I bought 10mm, 17.3mm and 24mm EPs to add to the stock plossls that came with the scope) but once the EP bug has struck, I found - like countless other victims caught in this addiction - the initial mathematics are somewhat academic. You will have an urge to fill in the gaps, even if they don't really exist. You will find yourself reading this forum late into the (cloudy) night, and constantly checking the classifieds. You'll get to know many of the contributors to SGL and their warm, friendly, encouraging advice. By then it's already too late. You'll have ordered a new flight case for your growing brood of ES/TV/Pentax EPs, and you will not stop until that case is full.....

Amen to that.  I started out with a 38mm Rini modified plossl, a 14mm Pentax XL, and 5mm Pentax XL nearly 20 years ago.  Since then, I've added Naglers, Speers-Walers, Panoptics, XWs, Delos, Meade 5000 SWAs, ES-82s, plossls, AstroTech AF70s, binoviewers, and many more miscellaneous eyepieces over the years.  I have a big watertight case that must weigh over 20 pounds with the expensive stuff and several smaller cases for holding the cheaper ones.  Now I'm intrigued by the ES-92 eyepieces.  It never ends!

[Richard Hather]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

Amen to that.  I started out with a 38mm Rini modified plossl, a 14mm Pentax XL, and 5mm Pentax XL nearly 20 years ago.  Since then, I've added Naglers, Speers-Walers, Panoptics, XWs, Delos, Meade 5000 SWAs, ES-82s, plossls, AstroTech AF70s, binoviewers, and many more miscellaneous eyepieces over the years.  I have a big watertight case that must weigh over 20 pounds with the expensive stuff and several smaller cases for holding the cheaper ones.  Now I'm intrigued by the ES-92 eyepieces.  It never ends!

Haha I hope this isn't me but who knows ask me again in 20 years lol

So the saving is under way my planned purchases are a TV 24mm   Panoptic, TV 32mm plossl.

probably hope to have these by September then the saving can begin for the Ethos 8/13 then I will be happy hopefully ?

[Louis D]

Eyepieces make good Christmas, birthday, Father's Day, and Anniversary gifts.  The wife is happy to let me pick out my own gifts so she doesn't have to try to guess what I want, and I don't have to hear her complain about buying "another eyepiece".  Alternatively, camera lenses also make good gifts for the amateur photographer (myself) who also can't stop collecting.  I literally have piles of soft-side camera cases full of equipment.

[Dazzyt66]

1 minute ago, Louis D said:

Eyepieces make good Christmas, birthday, Father's Day, and Anniversary gifts.  The wife is happy to let me pick out my own gifts so she doesn't have to try to guess what I want, and I don't have to hear her complain about buying "another eyepiece".

Ditto. Birthday in September already has a collection of eps for family and friends to choose from... ??

[Richard Hather]

Tell me about it I only started out a few months ago I've already spent including the scope almost £1000 but my wish list keeps getting bigger as my knowledge grows.

Luckily I enjoy observing and sketching my observations especially DSOs so for now at least I can focus purely on eps and filters with fathers days my birthday and the of course Christmas coming up I can see me saving every pound for eps ☺️

[Louis D]

9 minutes ago, Richard Hather said:

Tell me about it I only started out a few months ago I've already spent including the scope almost £1000 but my wish list keeps getting bigger as my knowledge grows.

Luckily I enjoy observing and sketching my observations especially DSOs so for now at least I can focus purely on eps and filters with fathers days my birthday and the of course Christmas coming up I can see me saving every pound for eps ☺️

At least it's far cheaper than owning a boat, RV, or motorcycle as a hobby.  I'm not saying you don't as well; but for the most part, amateur astronomy is fairly low cost in comparison to some other hobbies.  There are those outliers with tens of thousands of dollars tied up in giant dobs and/or high-end imaging rigs.

[iPeace]

On 06/05/2016 at 15:18, Highburymark said:

If you had just three eyepieces, and one of them was a 8/10mm for higher magnification, then you would want to space out your options - so your medium power option would be perhaps 16mm. Obviously if you get a good Barlow, then you get double the options so you need to take those into consideration.

However, I have a serious warning that I must mention - like many others on SGL, when I started upgrading my kit I methodically planned my first 3 EPs (I had a C6 also and I bought 10mm, 17.3mm and 24mm EPs to add to the stock plossls that came with the scope) but once the EP bug has struck, I found - like countless other victims caught in this addiction - the initial mathematics are somewhat academic. You will have an urge to fill in the gaps, even if they don't really exist. You will find yourself reading this forum late into the (cloudy) night, and constantly checking the classifieds. You'll get to know many of the contributors to SGL and their warm, friendly, encouraging advice. By then it's already too late. You'll have ordered a new flight case for your growing brood of ES/TV/Pentax EPs, and you will not stop until that case is full.....

 

 

Never!

[Richard Hather]

3 minutes ago, Louis D said:

At least it's far cheaper than owning a boat, RV, or motorcycle as a hobby.  I'm not saying you don't as well; but for the most part, amateur astronomy is fairly low cost in comparison to some other hobbies.  There are those outliers with tens of thousands of dollars tied up in giant dobs and/or high-end imaging rigs.

I have no hesitation or problem with spending the money I've never been this in love or passionate with any hobbie.

Its the whole experience every peaceful moment it's just you and your scope just looking out into the cosmos taking in every detail then putting it to paper but more then that it's the knowledge you gain from every object you observe.

Its the amazement in everyone's eyes when you tell them about your latest observations and show them exactly what you saw its priceless and that's why I'm surein the coming years I will spend £1000s more and not blink an eyelid, not sure about the wife though but I'm pushing for a EP fund I can put into every month the amount is currently under negotiation ☺️

[iPeace]

1 minute ago, Richard Hather said:

I have no hesitation or problem with spending the money I've never been this in love or passionate with any hobbie.

Its the whole experience every peaceful moment it's just you and your scope just looking out into the cosmos taking in every detail then putting it to paper but more then that it's the knowledge you gain from every object you observe.

Its the amazement in everyone's eyes when you tell them about your latest observations and show them exactly what you saw its priceless and that's why I'm surein the coming years I will spend £1000s more and not blink an eyelid, not sure about the wife though but I'm pushing for a EP fund I can put into every month the amount is currently under negotiation ☺️

Quite so. I do, however, find myself having just as much fun with "just" a nice pair of binoculars... that is not to say my case full of Ethos is going anywhere...

[Louis D]

2 minutes ago, Richard Hather said:

not sure about the wife though

I call the wife out when there's an easily observed object she's never seen before.  She's not interested at all in faint fuzzies or blurry planets.  My adult, geeky daughter, however, is always excited to observe with dad.  I may pass my stuff on to her and her kids some day.

[Richard Hather]

Just now, iPeace said:

Quite so. I do, however, find myself having just as much fun with "just" a nice pair of binoculars... that is not to say my case full of Ethos is going anywhere...

Haha yeah I considered binoculars to start with but decided on my 6SE which I'm happy with.

So the Ethos I have to ask you how good are they and don't cut back on the details ☺️

[Richard Hather]

21 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I call the wife out when there's an easily observed object she's never seen before.  She's not interested at all in faint fuzzies or blurry planets.  My adult, geeky daughter, however, is always excited to observe with dad.  I may pass my stuff on to her and her kids some day.

Haha I know what you mean I've not showed the wife any Messiers yet but I'm sure the question will be something like "what am I looking at" I think with DSO ou either love it or don't understand it.

I thought I would mainly be a planetary and moon observer at the start then I was introduced to M13 and that's it I was hooked I was compelled to truly observe and record what I saw.

I now plan each session purely on DSOs and only 2-3 to give time to observe each.

My last session in 2h 30m or so of observation I managed 1 sketch of M27 completely blew me away I couldn't stop taking in every detail what a night ☺️

[Stub Mandrel]

From the 24m Explore Scientific EP linked above:

"Although Nitrogen is a fine choice that will last for many years, Argon is a larger molecule that maintains its protective properties over a wider range of temperatures, and is even more resistant to diffusion thereby further extending the protective waterproof environment of the eyepiece body. "

This didn't seem right and has sent me off on a meaningless voyage through some physical chemistry!

The atomic radius of argon is 71pm (picometres) and the atomic radius of Nitrogen is 65pm.

BUT they are clear they are clear they mean molecules, and the nitrogen in your eyepiece is in pairs of two atoms in a sausage shape. Atomic radius is meaningless for molecules, but we can use the Van der Waals radius, which models the size of a molecule or atom for modelling some of their properties. In this case Argon still wins with 188pm and Nitrogen loses with 155pm.

But, hey! We are worrying about diffusion and for this we need the kinetic diameter which is what determines how they behave in collisions (which determines how fast the gas can diffuse). The kinetic diameter of  nitrogen is 361pm and that of Argon is 341pm.

I'm sure ES will argue that the Van der Walls radius is what counts, but I reckon your nitrogen filled EP will last 6% longer than if they were filled with Argon - perhaps!

[iPeace]

Just now, Richard Hather said:

Haha yeah I considered binoculars to start with but decided on my 6SE which I'm happy with.

So the Ethos I have to ask you how good are they and don't cut back on the details ☺️

Well...

I am seriously addicted. The field of view is just so luxurious. I started late in life and went straight for the green lettering, so I probably can't even appreciate them as much as I would had I started years ago on a smaller budget. The views are fantastic, for me worth the upgrade from Nagler T6 and Panoptic, but to brush those fine eyepieces aside is in turn a gross injustice. In my short time in this business, I have never found anything wrong with any TeleVue eyepiece, but my first Ethos - the 17mm - did seal my doom.

They are not for everyone; the eye relief is not to everyone's liking and they are big and heavy. Plenty to be read here on SGL about this. But try one at your peril, because they won't let go!

[Richard Hather]

8 hours ago, iPeace said:

Well...

I am seriously addicted. The field of view is just so luxurious. I started late in life and went straight for the green lettering, so I probably can't even appreciate them as much as I would had I started years ago on a smaller budget. The views are fantastic, for me worth the upgrade from Nagler T6 and Panoptic, but to brush those fine eyepieces aside is in turn a gross injustice. In my short time in this business, I have never found anything wrong with any TeleVue eyepiece, but my first Ethos - the 17mm - did seal my doom.

They are not for everyone; the eye relief is not to everyone's liking and they are big and heavy. Plenty to be read here on SGL about this. But try one at your peril, because they won't let go!

That has to be the most awe aspirin case of EPs I've ever seen this is what worries me is 1 or 2 enough we shall see but eye relief isn't an issue as I don't wear my glasses during observing and being big and heavy shouldn't be a problem certainly something to look forward to ☺️

[iPeace]

1 hour ago, Richard Hather said:

That has to be the most awe aspirin case of EPs I've ever seen this is what worries me is 1 or 2 enough we shall see but eye relief isn't an issue as I don't wear my glasses during observing and being big and heavy shouldn't be a problem certainly something to look forward to ☺️

Let me be clear on this: a complete set is totally unnecessary. Choose well based on the characteristics of your scope and your own style of observing and what you want to see more of and you can do it all with 3-4 eyepieces total. Probably just 3.

Easy for me to say, of course, as I have chosen the expensive way of finding out which eyepieces will serve me best; but take it as read that you could switch one Ethos for another in my scope while my back was turned and I might not notice...

[Richard Hather]

I do have 3-4 eps in mind-

32mm plossl

24mm panoptic

13mm ethos

8mm ethos

These are for my Celestron Nexstar 6se your thoughts would be appreciated ☺️

[Richard Hather]

46 minutes ago, iPeace said:

Let me be clear on this: a complete set is totally unnecessary. Choose well based on the characteristics of your scope and your own style of observing and what you want to see more of and you can do it all with 3-4 eyepieces total. Probably just 3.

Easy for me to say, of course, as I have chosen the expensive way of finding out which eyepieces will serve me best; but take it as read that you could switch one Ethos for another in my scope while my back was turned and I might not notice...

I do have 3-4 eps in mind-

32mm plossl

24mm panoptic

13mm ethos

8mm ethos

These are for my Celestron Nexstar 6se your thoughts would be appreciated ☺️

[iPeace]

I don't know that scope, so I'll have to look it up. My immediate thought is that with this selection, your field of view is shrinking as the magnification goes down. I would look up or calculate the difference in magnification and "actual" field of view (combined with your scope) between the Panoptic, the Plossl and a 21mm Ethos. You may find you can replace them both with "just" the 21mm Ethos (yes, I know...) and have a perfectly complimentary set. For what it's worth, my 31mm Nagler is a total extravagance; the increase in field of view over the 21 Ethos is marginal so it basically shows me the same but with less magnification...

I also have a 41mm Panoptic and it is great, which leads me to suspect that the 24mm is also excellent and there are others here who vouch for said excellence.

[Richard Hather]

16 minutes ago, iPeace said:

I don't know that scope, so I'll have to look it up. My immediate thought is that with this selection, your field of view is shrinking as the magnification goes down. I would look up or calculate the difference in magnification and "actual" field of view (combined with your scope) between the Panoptic, the Plossl and a 21mm Ethos. You may find you can replace them both with "just" the 21mm Ethos (yes, I know...) and have a perfectly complimentary set. For what it's worth, my 31mm Nagler is a total extravagance; the increase in field of view over the 21 Ethos is marginal so it basically shows me the same but with less magnification...

I also have a 41mm Panoptic and it is great, which leads me to suspect that the 24mm is also excellent and there are others here who vouch for said excellence.

The only problem with a 21mm ethos is it only has a 2 inch barrel size the diagonal in the 6se only accepts 1.25 I've toyed with the idea of getting an attachment for 2 inch eps but again experience is something I don't have being a newbie I'm not sure my scope would benefit from a 2 inch diagonal or which to purchase if it would by all means I would purchase one and just use televue ethos eps but again until I know this is the best route to take I can't commit to it maybe a new thread is in order.

[John]

44 minutes ago, iPeace said:

I don't know that scope, so I'll have to look it up. My immediate thought is that with this selection, your field of view is shrinking as the magnification goes down. I would look up or calculate the difference in magnification and "actual" field of view (combined with your scope) between the Panoptic, the Plossl and a 21mm Ethos. You may find you can replace them both with "just" the 21mm Ethos (yes, I know...) and have a perfectly complimentary set. For what it's worth, my 31mm Nagler is a total extravagance; the increase in field of view over the 21 Ethos is marginal so it basically shows me the same but with less magnification...

I also have a 41mm Panoptic and it is great, which leads me to suspect that the 24mm is also excellent and there are others here who vouch for said excellence.

I thought that the 21mm Ethos would render my 31mm Nagler redundant but that didn't happen. I don't use the big Nagler that much but sometimes it's the best tool for the job and I'd not be without it

All that said, I'm not sure that I'd splash out on Ethos and Naglers if my scopes were all around F/10.

 

[iPeace]

1 hour ago, John said:

I thought that the 21mm Ethos would render my 31mm Nagler redundant but that didn't happen. I don't use the big Nagler that much but sometimes it's the best tool for the job and I'd not be without it

All that said, I'm not sure that I'd splash out on Ethos and Naglers if my scopes were all around F/10.

 

As I am not knowledgeable in these matters, I have used Stellarium to give me an idea of the difference a certain eyepiece will make in a certain scope. Using the Ocular feature, I can configure the scope's aperture and focal length and the eyepiece's apparent field of view and focal length and the program will simulate the actual view. I have done this in order to compare eyepieces before I buy them. Of course this can only be an approximation, but it gives a pretty good idea of magnification and field of view.

John is surely right (he's the one with the smarts in this department) - whether the extra field of view of an Ethos translates into significantly more field of view depends on the scope itself.

[iPeace]

The TeleVue website also has a nice eyepiece calculator you can try.