First use disapointment :-(

[Bodger]

4 hours ago, Peco4321 said:

Hi Barry 

As a recent newbie with a similar scope to you (150p) I would like to try and uplift your spirits. Like everyone says, get outside and wrapped up with loads of layers.

Try and turn all your lights off in the house before you go out and sit next to your scope while it cools downs and just gaze up. Look at the Plough (Ursa Major) and pick out the second star of the handle. It's called Mizar and you might just notice it is a double star. When ready, look through your scope and you'll be blown away as its actually a double double and with greater magnification it's a double double double star system. Google it for a better explanation.  Try this:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-blogs/explore-night-bob-king/mizar-a-fresh-look-at-an-old-friend03252015/

Wait till you see the Moon. It's amazing the level of detail you'll see with craters mountains smooth areas that look simply gorgeous. 

Orion is just dipping a bit low but when back in view the Orion Nebula is an easy, yet amazing DSO to start with. 

While just browsing around there's always satellites flying by that take you by surprise not to mention the ISS flying by now and again.

I'm still getting used to the scope but every night I use it I see something new that blows me away and I go to bed happy. 

Hope this helps you look forward to the next clear skies ??✨

Thank you Peter - that really DID raise my spirits.  Thank you ;-)

[Bodger]

Thank you all soooooo much for the very helpful suggestions.  It IS a steep learning curve but I am thankful to have such good friends here to help me.  respect ;-)

[Bodger]

4 hours ago, Dave In Vermont said:

This might give you some information that will help you get a realistic sense of expectations. Assuming you abandon the skylight and other great ways to be certain of seeing zilch!

http://www.deepskywatch.com/Articles/what-can-i-see-through-telescope.html

Fear not - you'll get there!

Dave

Dave, that is a great link - thank you sir.

[ArmyAirForce]

As others have said, seeing plays a big part in what you can see, and for me, what I can photograph. Have a look at this short video I made. It shows Jupiter in reasonable seeing, and then the picture I got from the video. Then it shows Jupiter in not so good seeing, and the picture, and finally Jupiter in appauling seeing. When the Jetstream is over us, with 200+pmh winds, there's nothing you can do that will make any observations any better. Wait it out, or pack up and get warm, and wait for another night! You can have a night that looks perfect, with a deep blue/black sky, but if the upper atmosphere is against you, you'll never see any detail.

 

[jetstream]

Getting good visual views is a process as the excellent posts show. Once outside and cooled the views will improve immensely- looking over hot rooftops can be a huge issue as well. After enjoying the improved views check the collimation, very easy to do.

[Bodger]

16 hours ago, ArmyAirForce said:

. . . It shows Jupiter in reasonable seeing, and then the picture I got from the video . . .

 

Firstly, many thanks for the interesting and helpful reply.  Secondly, are you saying 'in the quote above' that the first clip produced the gorgeous first picture?  To start with I'll just be observing but ultimately I want to get into astro photography (that will produce another shed load of questions). 

Regards

Barry

[Joe12345]

55 minutes ago, Bodger said:

Firstly, many thanks for the interesting and helpful reply.  Secondly, are you saying 'in the quote above' that the first clip produced the gorgeous first picture?  To start with I'll just be observing but ultimately I want to get into astro photography (that will produce another shed load of questions). 

Regards

Barry

The final images at the end of each section are a result of stacking the video (putting all the individual frames together to make a clearer image) and a bit of editing (ie changing the brightest, contrast ect). You will most likely see what the first video section looks like, once you've been observing it for a while.

[ArmyAirForce]

2 hours ago, Bodger said:

.....are you saying 'in the quote above' that the first clip produced the gorgeous first picture? ......

Yes, this was the video from the Red filter with a mono camera. There were also videos through a green and blue filter. Once stacked and processed, the three RGB images were combined, followed by a little more processing to make the final picture. The video shows well how looking through the atmosphere is like watching through a flowing river; sometimes smooth, sometimes churning wildly.

[Starwiz]

On 4/29/2016 at 08:49, JG777 said:

With all respect I think the OP should be worried about collimation. It is not unknown for mass produced scopes to miss some QC at the factory plus reflectors can slip collimation in transit. If you own a reflector telescope then collimation is part of the deal. A badly collimated scope will never achieve its potential. Bodger, consider getting a simple collimating cheshire tool and check your scope on a regular basis, this will really help you get the most out of it. Yes and someone has posted ABs guide on how to do it?

Agreed.  To achieve 'full' potential of the scope, collimation should be checked and adjusted if necessary.   Just for the record, the collimation on my SW200p was way out when I received it.  I checked collimation using a cheshire eyepiece and had to adjust the secondary mirror position substantially to allign it with the focuser before adjusting the primary.  That was 5 years ago and I haven't had to adjust the secondary since; just the primary when needed. 

John

[Bodger]

quote " The final images at the end of each section are a result of stacking the video (putting all the individual frames together to make a clearer image)" WHOAH . . . I've made lots of movies over the years but don't understand that at all. I'd love to be able to produce an image of that size and quality but I think I'd better stick to just observing for the time being but I'd love to get into that in the future.

[Bodger]

6 hours ago, ArmyAirForce said:

Yes, this was the video from the Red filter with a mono camera. There were also videos through a green and blue filter. Once stacked and processed, the three RGB images were combined, followed by a little more processing to make the final picture.

Awesome, thank you for the explanation and I would love to have a go at that in the future.  Watch this space :-) (nice web site by the way ;-) ) 

[Bodger]

10 minutes ago, Starwiz said:

. . . collimation should be checked and adjusted if necessary.

Thanks for that John.  I'll try it outdoors first then look at collimation if need-by.  Thanks for your input.

Barry

[Starwiz]

On 4/29/2016 at 06:13, Bodger said:

 ............I should point out at this stage that I was in the warm drinking hot chocolate looking through a skylight so I’m happy to take a kicking if you think it was a schoolboy error pointing a scope through glass!!
 

 

 

 

 

 

Coincidentally Barry, my first view of Mercury through a 76mm Tasco telescope about 30 years ago was viewed through an open skylight above a block of flats in the west of West Germany (as it was at the time).  It was in the Autumn and I got up about 04.30, went upstairs and as the sky started to lighten, was able to see the gibbous phase of the planet.  I was in a town, but the skylight gave me the height and view of the horizon that I needed.  As I said, not to be recommended, but I was a newby then so didn't know any better.  

John

 

[Bodger]

11 hours ago, Starwiz said:

Coincidentally Barry, my first view of Mercury through a 76mm Tasco telescope about 30 years ago was viewed through an open skylight above a block of flats in the west of West Germany (as it was at the time).  It was in the Autumn and I got up about 04.30, went upstairs and as the sky started to lighten, was able to see the gibbous phase of the planet.  I was in a town, but the skylight gave me the height and view of the horizon that I needed.  As I said, not to be recommended, but I was a newby then so didn't know any better.  

John

 

Thanks for that John.  Interesting story.  My scope is still upstairs in my office so I may have a go (with the skylight OPEN this time) before taking it outside.  If only this damn cloud would clear  

[Pathfoot]

At least you didn't get the kicking you were preparing yourself for, largely because most of us have got the tee-shirt.

In addition to the conditions under which you use the telescope (such as pointing it through a window, where even if it's open, you've also got a column of warm air which has a different refractive index from the cooler air farther from the house, which is also swirling unhelpfully about), there's an issue here of managing expectations.  If you've come to astronomy through books and the like, where the illustrations and photographs have been made from professional telescopes and pretty advanced amateur kit, you may well expect that your own telescope will show roughly similar things. It won't. 'Seeing' is a skill in itself. I remember my first telescope, which I thought was impressively large. It had an objective of about an inch and five-eighths, and a fixed eyepiece giving around x30. I had saved up thirty shillings, but when I went to Charles Frank's in Glasgow, the cheapest telescope they had cost four guineas. I was so deflated, and asked if there was anything second-hand. I remember him as a tall, gaunt looking man, behind the counter. He said he'd have a look, and then came back with the Charles Frank Junior Astronomical Telescope, in a yellow and blue box. I handed over my one pound note and my ten bob note, and left clutching my new second-hand telescope. It was only years later that it dawned on me, it wasn't second-hand, that that tall gaunt man had simply given me a brand new four-guinea telescope for thirty bob. Few recollections in my life have been as pleasant or made me smile as much as that elderly man's kindness.

I could see craters on the moon, and that was thrilling. Stars were trickier, because it was a simple glass (later models of it were plastic objectives too), and the image of course was upside down, so moving it around was an awkward experience, especially as the tripod design had a lot of play and wobble. It was, the instruction book assured me, far more powerful and optically advanced that Galileo's first Optick Tube. And simple and cheap as it was, I believe it still.

That was also my first realisation that what I saw on the pages of PM's books, weren't what I saw through the scope. Some years later, I bought a bigger telescope, a 3" refractor, and was surprised that it wasn't an order of magnitude better than my little Junior Telescope, where in practical terms, the real advantage only came from the solid equatorial mounting. However, in this case, I think the optics were just average, for when I looked through a friend's Swift 3", the difference was noticeable. Over time, however, you do learn to 'see', and you do learn the tips and tricks (it's hard to over-estimate attending to personal comfort in the middle of a December night) that come with experience at the eyepiece.

[Eddster]

Hi Barry,

Stick at it! I've recently acquired the same scope as you, though second hand and a little bashed up, and have just had some EXCELLENT results.

I bought a new 30mm eyepiece off ebay, and a 5mm too. I had great views of Jupiter and could see it's moons and 2 distinct cloud belts. The best detail view was through the 10mm that I got with the scope.

The Orion nebula was a pretty sight in March and kept me at the eyepiece for quite a while.

Last week I managed to pick out M81, M82 and, surprisingly, M57. The best view of the galaxies were with the 25mm eyepieces and M57 with the 15mm I had bought (it was small, but a good view nonetheless).

As long as you get that collimation checked, get outside under clear skies, and let the scope cool down, you should get some great observing.

I've had some great advice from the members here, so keep asking.

Best of luck, please report back and let us know how you get on!

Eddie

[Bodger]

18 hours ago, Pathfoot said:

At least you didn't get the kicking you were preparing yourself for, largely because most of us have got the tee-shirt.

In addition to the conditions under which you use the telescope (such as pointing it through a window, where even if it's open, you've also got a column of warm air which has a different refractive index from the cooler air farther from the house, which is also swirling unhelpfully about), there's an issue here of managing expectations.  If you've come to astronomy through books and the like, where the illustrations and photographs have been made from professional telescopes and pretty advanced amateur kit, you may well expect that your own telescope will show roughly similar things. It won't. 'Seeing' is a skill in itself. I remember my first telescope, which I thought was impressively large. It had an objective of about an inch and five-eighths, and a fixed eyepiece giving around x30. I had saved up thirty shillings, but when I went to Charles Frank's in Glasgow, the cheapest telescope they had cost four guineas. I was so deflated, and asked if there was anything second-hand. I remember him as a tall, gaunt looking man, behind the counter. He said he'd have a look, and then came back with the Charles Frank Junior Astronomical Telescope, in a yellow and blue box. I handed over my one pound note and my ten bob note, and left clutching my new second-hand telescope. It was only years later that it dawned on me, it wasn't second-hand, that that tall gaunt man had simply given me a brand new four-guinea telescope for thirty bob. Few recollections in my life have been as pleasant or made me smile as much as that elderly man's kindness.

I could see craters on the moon, and that was thrilling. Stars were trickier, because it was a simple glass (later models of it were plastic objectives too), and the image of course was upside down, so moving it around was an awkward experience, especially as the tripod design had a lot of play and wobble. It was, the instruction book assured me, far more powerful and optically advanced that Galileo's first Optick Tube. And simple and cheap as it was, I believe it still.

That was also my first realisation that what I saw on the pages of PM's books, weren't what I saw through the scope. Some years later, I bought a bigger telescope, a 3" refractor, and was surprised that it wasn't an order of magnitude better than my little Junior Telescope, where in practical terms, the real advantage only came from the solid equatorial mounting. However, in this case, I think the optics were just average, for when I looked through a friend's Swift 3", the difference was noticeable. Over time, however, you do learn to 'see', and you do learn the tips and tricks (it's hard to over-estimate attending to personal comfort in the middle of a December night) that come with experience at the eyepiece.

Thank you for the encouragement, the tips, and a very interesting story.  Much appreciated.

Barry

[Bodger]

9 hours ago, Eddster said:

Stick at it! I've recently acquired the same scope as you, though second hand and a little bashed up, and have just had some EXCELLENT results.

Best of luck, please report back and let us know how you get on!

Eddie

Many thanks Eddie. That has boosted my disappointment no end. Orion looked great and when it comes back I'll be ready and waiting. Your comments are very encouraging - thank you.

Barry

[Mak the Night]

I have the same Explorer and I had some pretty good results with Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. I needed better quality Barlows and eyepieces though. The scope itself is fine. Some of the best views of Jupiter I had last year were with the 130M using a TeleVue 3x Barlow and a TeleVue 20mm Plossl for 135x and a Celestron (GSO) 17mm Plossl for around 159x. I can't emphasise the need for a quality 3x Barlow with a scope of only 900mm f/l enough. It really improved my planetary observing with the Explorer 130M.

[Bodger]

 Many thanks for the information. I'll certainly investigate different lenses. Thanks for the tip.

[Mak the Night]

Just now, Bodger said:

 Many thanks for the information. I'll certainly investigate different lenses. Thanks for the tip.

You're welcome. The Explorer 130M is a good scope for planetary/lunar, it's just that the Sky-Watcher giveaway eyepieces don't do it justice. The included Barlow is basically useless, although the 10 and 25mm MA eyepieces aren't that bad. I recommend the Vixen NPL Plossls.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-eyepieces/vixen-npl-eyepieces.html

And the Revelation Plossls from Telescope House are basically rebadged GSO like Celestron or Orion. Except they're cheaper.

http://www.telescopehouse.com/eyepieces/revelation-eyepieces.html

I'll bet money they'll drastically change the views you are getting. A good 3x or 2.5x Barlow is really needed on the 900mm Explorer IMO.

I recommend this: http://www.telescopehouse.com/revelation-astro-2-5x-barlow-lens.html

 

[Bodger]

Thank you for the additional information. Much appreciated.

[Paz]

I would mention the issue of the altitude of a target, or how high up in the sky it is. If you look at Jupiter low in the sky (and I have!) it will be mush no matter how good your kit or the conditions as you will be looking through so much atmosphere.

When seeing is bad, looking for some time and waiting for good spells of seeing pays dividends - most of the time what you can see might be mediocre but every now and then the seeing turns good for a moment and you will know when it does if you have the patience to wait. The bigger your scope the more there is to be gained from this.

I would recommend the collimation guide link - collimation is not difficult if you stick with a simple method, practice it a few times, and don't over complicate it.

[Mak the Night]

Oddly, I observed Jupiter setting last July with my 130M around 21:45 BST at only about 12° altitude in twilight conditions (the background sky was blue) and I had some of the best and most detailed views of Jupiter I've ever had. A couple of weeks later I tried again approximately at the same time with my 102mm Mak and Jupiter was basically a mushy ball.

[SacRiker]

On 4/29/2016 at 02:13, Floater said:

I know of no-one who has just started the hobby and not encountered setbacks, challenges or, yes, disappointments. Take time to read and learn as much as you can. Adopt a 'zen' approach to the hobby. Temper your expectations (keep them low!). And continue to ask questions on this forum. 

This! It took me forever just to align my finder scope the other day (in daylight). I thought my scope was faulty, but it turned out that I was just trying to use objects that were far too close to me. They would not come into focus!