First use disapointment :-(

[Bodger]

After several nights of cloudy skies, last night I used my brand new shiny telescope for the first time and, quite frankly, I was disappointed with the results.

I have the popular Sky-Watcher Explorer-130M with motor drive sitting on an EQ2 Equatorial Mount.  It has a Focal Length of 900mm and came with 3 lenses - “Super 10mm”, “Super 25 Wide Angle Long Eye Relief” and “x2 Barlow Lens”.

I was looking at Jupiter and there were two things that disappointed me.  Firstly, the magnification and secondly the focusing.

1.       Magnification. The magnification wasn’t as good as I was expecting. This is my first scope so I have nothing to compare it with but whilst I wasn’t expecting to see craters or the red spot doing its thing I was expecting a much bigger image – not a small furry blob.  I used the 25mm lens then the 10mm lens and finally the 10mm and x2 Barlow lenses together. But the size of the image was very disappointing and goodness knows how I’m supposed to see deep space nebula and constellations.

2.       Focussing. However I tried, I couldn’t get the blob into sharp focus. The best I could get looking at Jupiter was a whitish blob with a tannish smudge at the bottom right. I should point out at this stage that I was in the warm drinking hot chocolate looking through a skylight so I’m happy to take a kicking if you think it was a schoolboy error pointing a scope through glass!!

I’ve read a lot and have waited ages to get my new scope and it was all going to be wonderful. In the end I went off to bed disappointed L

Is there anything I can do to improve the size of the image (better lens?) or help me get it in focus like not pointing it through glass?  Any positive comments would be greatly appreciated.

Barry

 

 

[JG777]

Well issue no.2 is your first point to resolve. Pointing a scope through glass really does not do the experience any favours. Take the scope outside , let it cool and ensure it is collimated, then you can work on magnification, but yes in that size of scope even Jupiter will be a fairly small disc. What you want is quality not quantity but that won't happen behind a skylight ?

[Starwiz]

It can happen to the best of us when we first start out.  

Viewing through glass can distort the image and the glass will also reflect and absorb some of those priceless photons.  Rising heat from the house can create further problems so it's best to be outside away from any buildings and give your scope time to cool to the outside temperature before using (about half an hour cooling with your scope should be fine).

Have you read the post on 'What can I expect to see' under 'Getting started with observing' on this forum?  If not, it may help calibrate your expectations.  

I hope you have better results next time.  

John

[Bodger]

Thank you both for the quick feedback.  I'll move the scope outside and see if that makes a difference.  In the meantime I'll ensure its 'collimated' (when I work out what that is) and check out the 'What can I expect" article.

Barry

[Joe12345]

I don't think the Hubble can see craters on Jupiter 

When telescope lenses are made, they are shaped, polished and coated, usually many times. Your window was most likely just shaped, but even then will be slightly bent, refracting the light very slightly, and, maybe, stopping it from focussing. Try from outside. It won't do anything to solve your magnification problem, but it should help you focus, which might mean you don't feel the need for a bigger image. Also look through the eyepiece for a few minutes without looking away - it will help you see a lot more detail after a while.

Deep sky objects are generally much bigger than the planets, just many times fainter. Constellations are the patterns of stars in the sky; you don't use a telescope to see them.

[Moonshane]

 Agreed. You generally need to leave scopes outside for about five minutes per inch of aperture so 25 minutes in your case. Jupiter is generally going to be small though.  That said you'll see more than you imagine.

[Bodger]

Thank you both for your comments. 

[Joe12345]

Also, you were using an effective 5mm, which would probably have been too much for your scope. Did you try just with the 10mm, or go straight to 5? As you increase the magnification, the image starts becoming more like a fuzzy blob, no matter how well you focus it. If I had to choose between 90* and 300* for Jupiter, it would be 90* any day.

[ronin]

As previously said the scope is to be used outside, so you need to take it out and allow it a little time to cool down.

Jupiter is small, immaterial of everything it is small. The GRS is (from Earth) small as well and owing to the distance it is also not overly red either, it can also be hiding around the other side of Jupiter. The view is more like "Is that small smudge in about the middle of the image the GRS???"

You will need to set up the EQ2 a bit when outside - aim the drive axis at Polaris, not sure what your Latitude would be as all you say is Germany.

The eyepieces are marked "Super" but they are not . The 25mm will be half reasonable, in general the 10mm and barlow are poor. For a first time I have the opinion that giving a single reasonable 15 to 20mm plossl would be a better experience for purchasers.

I don't think that the 130M has a 2" adaptor in the focuser, it takes 1.25" eyepieces only, so there should be no need to search for and remove the 2" adaptor but have a gentle look anyway.

For future reference you are going to need one or two better eyepieces. At 900mm focal lengh try for about 80-100x for Jupiter - forget high magnifications - 80x means something in the 12mm to 15mm focal lengths. A plossl should be OK in your scope. TS have a few and there may be places closer to you. With Jupiter you want a clear, sharp image primarily.

The 20mm will be reasonable for objects like clusters and globular clusters, M3, M13 (think that is the numbers). When Saturn makes an appearance - it will be LOW for the next few years you will need around 120x, so think on an 8mm eyepiece. Should just make it. Will say now do not expect much from Mars.

Here is a web page I saved some time back, about 1/3 down it gives comparisons of what people expect compared to the reality of what is seen. Quite informative:

http://bigtelescope.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/christmas-and-telescopes-how-to-avoid.html

[rockystar]

don't worry about collimation at this stage, from experience, as a beginner you can make it worse that it currently is.

first thing is, as has been mentioned, take it outside, and then make sure you have enough outward movement on the focuser to bring stars to a sharp point.

your 10mm plus the Barlow will give you x130 magnification, this will be plenty to give Jupiter some detail (it won't be huge though, still a small ball).

As for DSOs, they don't need a lot of magnification, one you work or the focusing, you'll be away

[cloudsweeper]

As others have said. looking through glass is no good.  Also, the "seeing" conditions might have been poor, and Jupiter, having a gaseous surface, doesn't magnify well.  Quite often, it (and its moons) looks better at low mag, even though it appears small.  Two greyish bands are usually very easy to see.

Other targets are double stars, nebulae, open clusters, and globular clusters.  These can be viewed at lower mag, and can be very impressive, so don't be discouraged by a poor initial view of Jupiter.  You can even push the mag up a bit on double stars and globulars.  But remember also that the deep space objects (DSOs) benefit enormously from really dark skies.  You'll see some galaxies, but without dark conditions, they will just be fuzzy blobs.

There really is a great deal out there to explore and enjoy.  It just takes time,  Have fun!

Doug.

[spike95609]

Collimation is certainly worth checking with a new scope - the famous Astrobaby guide is at http://www.astro-baby.com/collimation/astro%20babys%20collimation%20guide.htm - it looks a bit daunting at first, the principles are in fact very simple, so just take your time and think everything through several times before you go at it.

[JG777]

1 hour ago, rockystar said:

don't worry about collimation at this stage, from experience, as a beginner you can make it worse that it currently is.

With all respect I think the OP should be worried about collimation. It is not unknown for mass produced scopes to miss some QC at the factory plus reflectors can slip collimation in transit. If you own a reflector telescope then collimation is part of the deal. A badly collimated scope will never achieve its potential. Bodger, consider getting a simple collimating cheshire tool and check your scope on a regular basis, this will really help you get the most out of it. Yes and someone has posted ABs guide on how to do it?

[Peco4321]

Hi Barry 

As a recent newbie with a similar scope to you (150p) I would like to try and uplift your spirits. Like everyone says, get outside and wrapped up with loads of layers.

Try and turn all your lights off in the house before you go out and sit next to your scope while it cools downs and just gaze up. Look at the Plough (Ursa Major) and pick out the second star of the handle. It's called Mizar and you might just notice it is a double star. When ready, look through your scope and you'll be blown away as its actually a double double and with greater magnification it's a double double double star system. Google it for a better explanation.  Try this:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-blogs/explore-night-bob-king/mizar-a-fresh-look-at-an-old-friend03252015/

Wait till you see the Moon. It's amazing the level of detail you'll see with craters mountains smooth areas that look simply gorgeous. 

Orion is just dipping a bit low but when back in view the Orion Nebula is an easy, yet amazing DSO to start with. 

While just browsing around there's always satellites flying by that take you by surprise not to mention the ISS flying by now and again.

I'm still getting used to the scope but every night I use it I see something new that blows me away and I go to bed happy. 

Hope this helps you look forward to the next clear skies ??✨

[Dave In Vermont]

This might give you some information that will help you get a realistic sense of expectations. Assuming you abandon the skylight and other great ways to be certain of seeing zilch!

http://www.deepskywatch.com/Articles/what-can-i-see-through-telescope.html

Fear not - you'll get there!

Dave

[laudropb]

Lots of good advice already given. I would only add that patience and practice is your only way forward. It's fun to learn the capabilities of your new scope, but there will be disappointments on the way. Make sure you align your finder to the scope. This is best done in daylight focussing on a distant object. Get this right and looking for targets will be much easier. On many nights the seeing will not be great ie the object viewed will slip in and out of focus as you look at it. Be patient. Spend some time viewing the object and your eye will become trained to see the detail better when the atmosphere is steady. Above all enjoy yourself.

[rockystar]

31 minutes ago, JG777 said:

With all respect I think the OP should be worried about collimation. It is not unknown for mass produced scopes to miss some QC at the factory plus reflectors can slip collimation in transit. If you own a reflector telescope then collimation is part of the deal. A badly collimated scope will never achieve its potential. Bodger, consider getting a simple collimating cheshire tool and check your scope on a regular basis, this will really help you get the most out of it. Yes and someone has posted ABs guide on how to do it?

I agree that it is part of the deal, and it will need to be learned, but the phrase I'm going to pick out of your comment is "achieve its potential". Too many times do i see a complete beginner struggling to achieve focus and the first thing that is mentioned is collimation; I've had a really badly collimated scope (made this bad by following guides for the first time) and it was still useable and I was still able to achieve focus, there was some cometing of the stars and some CA so not at its potential, but useable.

I would rather see it mentioned as the third or fourth thing to try.

I'd also recommend they seek the help of someone who knows what they are doing for their first attempt, this is what really helped me and I now find it quick and easy to do, but it wasn't the first couple of times.

[Floater]

32 minutes ago, laudropb said:

Above all enjoy yourself.

That is the nub of it.

Everything written above is spot on but amateur astronomy is all about having fun. You are on a learning curve - some bits steeper than others. Enjoy the trip on that curve.

I know of no-one who has just started the hobby and not encountered setbacks, challenges or, yes, disappointments. Take time to read and learn as much as you can. Adopt a 'zen' approach to the hobby. Temper your expectations (keep them low!). And continue to ask questions on this forum. 

I have been almost tearing out the little hair I have left on my head with frustration on occasion but have maintained a determination to get the best I can out of the hobby ... and to have fun.

I'm sure you'll 'turn the corner' quickly.

[Starlight 1]

This sounds odd, Some times by looking out the side of your eye you can see more.

[cloudsweeper]

42 minutes ago, Starlight 1 said:

This sounds odd, Some times by looking out the side of your eye you can see more.

Good point - using averted vision can make objects and detail pop up unexpectedly!

[Stu]

41 minutes ago, cloudsweeper said:

Good point - using averted vision can make objects and detail pop up unexpectedly!

Averted vision is very useful for faint objects but not needed for planetary observing. To get the best planetary views, the following points are important.

EDIT AV will be of some benefit for picking out the fainter belts and zones in the generate regions of Jupiter, and for faint moons of Saturn for example.

 

Seeing

Cooling

Collimation

Power

Patience

 

Seeing conditions - good seeing is essential to see planetary detail. If the Jetstream is overhead, or there are local convection currents then you just won't see the detail. Try to observe away from houses, avoid looking over or through central heating flumes and also avoid observing on concrete or Tarmac if possible. The best views are often to be had after midnight when the atmosphere has calmed and lost its heat.

The best planetary observing nights are often ones which don't look that promising. High haze can often mean there is a still atmosphere which means great seeing. If the stars are twinkling visibly then it is not a great night for planets but may be excellent for DSOs.

Cooling - your scope and the mirror/optics must be cooled to ambient temperature, otherwise the tube currents will also prevent you seeing the detail. 30 to 45 minutes should be fine. Defocusing on a bright star or planet will show you whether there are still tube currents present. If you put your hand on the side of the tube, you can often see the heat swirls coming off this when defocused.

Collimation - not something to get too hung up about, but it is important to get right in order to get the best planetary views. It's not scary once you learn how, but first off, learn how to star test your scope to see if it needs doing.

Power - using the correct power (magnification) is very important. To little and you don't see the detail, too much and everything goes mushy. Jupiter has some low contrast features so often 'less is more'. Depending upon the scope and conditions, x130 to x180 is often ideal. Somewhere around x1 per mm of aperture is a good max for your scope.

Patience! - a quick look in the eyepiece won't show you much. I often get frustrated when people ask to look through the scope and they say 'oh that's nice' after about 5 seconds, and leave it at that. I encourage them to refocus, but they often say 'no it's fine' when I know it can't be. Focus is critical for pulling out the detail, so make sure this is correct, then leave it and wait for the moments of better seeing when you really start to see stuff. After a while, your eye and brain work together to pull out the finer details and you will see much more.

Hope that helps a little.

Stu

[cloudsweeper]

Averted vision is particularly helpful with faint objects, although it has also helped me spot a couple of extra bands on Jupiter.

Doug.

[Stu]

4 minutes ago, cloudsweeper said:

Averted vision is particularly helpful with faint objects, although it has also helped me spot a couple of extra bands on Jupiter.

Doug.

Fair enough comment Doug, some of the temperate belts and zones are pretty faint so probably do benefit from AV. Perhaps I do it without thinking now ?

[Peder]

Lots of advice already.

I have an SW 130P on an EQ2 and I get great views of Jupiter and its 4 largest moons. When viewing planets magnifications between 130x-170x are usually fine.

As for collimation you should definitely check it. You can buy a reasonable laser collimator for £50 and collimation is not difficult to learn. Here is how I learned to do it:

https://youtu.be/8G98RTP6jbY

All you really need is practice and patience :-)

[Bodger]

5 hours ago, spike95609 said:

Collimation is certainly worth checking with a new scope - the famous Astrobaby guide is at http://www.astro-baby.com/collimation/astro%20babys%20collimation%20guide.htm - it looks a bit daunting at first, the principles are in fact very simple, so just take your time and think everything through several times before you go at it.

Many thanks to the link - much appreciated.