Post processing Lode star X 2 C images ... ?

[Astrith]

Hello .

I am a very complete newbie to Lodestar X2 C.  Very slowly achieving some results . Not perfect , but a lot better from where i was two weeks since. I have managed to file quite a few FIT files from last nights session . The question is how would I process these . Would I be able to use Photo shop or Startools .  Or is this akin to mixing chalk and cheese.  My head is spinning with the steep learning curve required , Any pointers in the right direction would be greatly appreciated . I am currently searching and trawling through these forums, but rather blindly at the moment. Best regards. Alan.

[DoctorD]

Hi

If you're using windows you could have a look at Deep Sky Stacker - this will accept the FITS files and align and stack them for you:

http://deepskystacker.free.fr/english/index.html

There's plenty of tutorial on how to use Deep Sky Stacker and plenty on SGL that will offer help too.

Once you have a stacked image them you can tweak the output using your favourite photo editor - however this is in the realms of astro photography so you may be better posting in the appropriate forum.

 

HTH

Paul

[Martin Meredith]

Hi Alan

I think the advice some were giving you earlier when suggesting that you save some FITs is to reload them into StarlightLive itself so you can play with the controls?

If this is indeed what you want to do, the how-to is in this post from Paul (its the only one I could find though it is a year old, but I imagine the options still work).

Martin

 

[Astrith]

3 hours ago, DoctorD said:

Hi

If you're using windows you could have a look at Deep Sky Stacker - this will accept the FITS files and align and stack them for you:

http://deepskystacker.free.fr/english/index.html

There's plenty of tutorial on how to use Deep Sky Stacker and plenty on SGL that will offer help too.

Once you have a stacked image them you can tweak the output using your favourite photo editor - however this is in the realms of astro photography so you may be better posting in the appropriate forum.

 

HTH

Paul

Many thanks Paul . Your reply has give me a starting point. Alan.

[Astrith]

56 minutes ago, Martin Meredith said:

Hi Alan

I think the advice some were giving you earlier when suggesting that you save some FITs is to reload them into StarlightLive itself so you can play with the controls?

If this is indeed what you want to do, the how-to is in this post from Paul (its the only one I could find though it is a year old, but I imagine the options still work).

Martin

 

Cheers Martin. It  very ( slowly ) dawned on me that this was the case . As I say lots to find out ,  and great help from yourself and others . Alan.

[DoctorD]

Hi Alan

To open a saved FITs file the commands are:

OSx (from the terminal): 

Colour:

open -a /Applications/StarlightLive.app --args -load-image-cygm <File Name>

Mono:

open -a /Applications/StarlightLive.app --args -load-image <File Name>

 

Windows (from directory with StarlightLive, open a command window):

Colour:

StarlightLive load-image-cygm <FILENAME> 

Mono:

StarightLive load-image <FILENAME>

Note: <FILENAME> must be the file name and full path to the file you want to load.

Once loaded you can adjust the settings on the display processing tab to see what effects they have - note you cannot stack images this way.

HTH

 

Paul

[HiloDon]

Hi Doc,

I noticed the Mac command you posted for color and mono are the same.  Also, what is the command for an Ultrastar with RGGB color?

Thanks,

Don

[nytecam]

Alan - StarlightLive [once you learnt them!] has all the controls to produce a finished pic including auto stacking on download, titling and export maybe as jpg's to common image processing s/w like Paint or Gimp for final tweak/ rescaling etc. 

Good luck ;o)

Nytecam

[DoctorD]

Hi Don

Thanks for spotting that - now corrected!

I've no experience of the Ultrastar RGGB devices, perhaps Paul81 will pipe in.

CS

Paul

 

[Paul81]

The command to load Ultrastar-C images is '-load-image-rggb':

OSX:

open -a /Applications/StarlightLive.app --args -load-image-rggb <File Name>

Windows:

StarlightLive load-image-rggb <FILENAME>

hope that helps :-)

Paul 

[Hibou]

On 2/24/2016 at 17:02, Paul81 said:

The command to load Ultrastar-C images is '-load-image-rggb':

StarlightLive load-image-rggb <FILENAME>

Thanks Paul. Would it be possible to have a list of all existing command-line options ? I didn't find them in HiloDon's excellent LodestarLive v1.0 manual (and the v1.1 version seems to be no longer available). BTW, it would be good to have this manual on the SX web site.

Could some-one perhaps upload a raw Ultrastar-C or Lodestar-C FITS file so that we could play with post processing ? Perhaps there is already one somewhere on the web ?

Thanks, Alan.

[DoctorD]

Hi

 

Here's M42 from earlier this month - Lodestar-C

Share and enjoy

 

Paul

 

Image_M42_2016.2.10_21.30.55_00005.fit

[HiloDon]

10 hours ago, Hibou said:

Thanks Paul. Would it be possible to have a list of all existing command-line options ? I didn't find them in HiloDon's excellent LodestarLive v1.0 manual (and the v1.1 version seems to be no longer available). BTW, it would be good to have this manual on the SX web site.

Could some-one perhaps upload a raw Ultrastar-C or Lodestar-C FITS file so that we could play with post processing ? Perhaps there is already one somewhere on the web ?

Thanks, Alan.

Hi Hibou,

Here's the link to LL User Guide v1.1.  It's at the top of the second page.  It needs to be updated to include features of Paul's latest versions, and I should add the commands for loading fits files.

 

Also, here are some fits files for the Lodestar and Ultrastar.

Lodestar (CYGM):

HH.fit

Ultrastar (RGGB):

NGC1365.fit

NGC891.fit

M42-C6.fit

M33.fit

Everyone should feel free to use them and share them.

Don

 

[Hibou]

10 hours ago, HiloDon said:

Here's the link to LL User Guide v1.1.  It's at the top of the second page.  It needs to be updated to include features of Paul's latest versions, and I should add the commands for loading fits files.

Also, here are some fits files for the Lodestar and Ultrastar.

Many thanks Don. Those files are very instructive. I always like to see the raw data :-) Worth a thousand words. I had a quick look with imageJ and I can see the Bayer matrix very clearly. Interestingly the pattern for the Ultrastar appears much simpler than that for the Lodestar. I'll have to think what that means. One of my objectives of course was to see how easy it really is to software bin a color chip :-) And since I've only worked with monochrome cameras, to understand a little more of what you have to give up to get colour. You've been really helpful for my education there.

And I had no trouble downloading your v1.1 manual. I don't know why I didn't find it when I first looked.

Thanks again. Alan.

[Hibou]

12 hours ago, DoctorD said:

Here's M42 from earlier this month - Lodestar-C

Thanks Paul. I had no problem opening that with imageJ either, and it's great to have an example of M42 with both the lodestar-C and the Ultrastar-C. As I replied to Don, I have to think about what the apparently more complex ICX829 matrix means.

[Hibou]

8 hours ago, Hibou said:

I have to think about what the apparently more complex ICX829 matrix means.

Perhaps the ICX829 in the Lodestar does not have a standard square RGGB Bayer filter like the ICX825 in the Ultrastar (second image) ? That might help explain why the colour is biased (differently) and why it may be brighter (apart also from having bigger pixels). I guess Paul and others already knew that, but I don't recall seeing it mentioned. Or perhaps it's just that the pixels are read out to the FITS file in a different order ? (These images are Don's FITS files blown up to see the individual pixels in imageJ). Another example of my naivety about colour CCDs.

[DoctorD]

Hi

The Lodestar has a CMYG matrix not an RGGB matrix.

HTH

Paul

 

 

[MrOD]

AFAIK it is far more complicated than CMYG matrix when it comes to lodestar x2c. I can't recall exactly but it takes 8 pixels (!) to cover this pattern.

[Hibou]

3 hours ago, MrOD said:

AFAIK it is far more complicated than CMYG matrix when it comes to lodestar x2c. I can't recall exactly but it takes 8 pixels (!) to cover this pattern.

Yes, it looks like none of the common filters. So the type of filter must be an important consideration in choosing the best CCD for OSC astronomy. CMYG will be brighter than RGGB, which emphasising green is good for earth images but not for the heavens. I found Jim Thompson's "Survey of CCD’s Used In Astro-Video Cameras" very instructive on this even if it's a little old.

[HiloDon]

The Lodestar X2c (CYGM) does have a magenta bias that can be adjusted to some degree by moving the color balance control to about -20 in the SLL program.  I find the color acceptable for EAA a purposes.  The Infinity and Ultrastar 825 RGGB sensor based cams have better color rendition, but at the expense of lower sensitivity and higher noise.  Use of fast optics is necessary in my opinion to overcome these deficiencies.  Extended stacking is also a possible solution.

Don

[MrOD]

I don't complain, i love my both lodestars for what they have showed me.

HiloDon what particular slider do You have in mind for color balance? (Sorry i am not yet fluent with SLL, I just use histogram stretching and brightness). Big thanks for sharing fits to all of You.

PS. I think i know what You meant now.

[DoctorD]

Hi

The colour decoding is made more difficult by the interlaced nature of the sensor (Starlight Live combines the odd an even fields into a single frame) - here's an excerpt from the data sheet:

HTH

Paul

[Paul81]

Yep the ICX829 CYGM is a pain - what you might be encountering is that the G / M lines alternate order in alternate lines, so its not

C Y
G M

reoccurring, but actually:

C Y
G M
C Y
M G

 

(I think I have that right - sorry replying to this off the top of my head rather than the code in front of me....).

Don has mentioned the critical fact - the CYGM sensor is more sensitive, but colour rendition is less accurate. The RGGB sensor has more accurate colour, but is less sensitive... For either type, their weaknesses can to some extent be reduced with either hue / sat corrections in SL, or by observing longer.

[saguaro]

On 2/24/2016 at 09:02, Paul81 said:

The command to load Ultrastar-C images is '-load-image-rggb':

OSX:

open -a /Applications/StarlightLive.app --args -load-image-rggb <File Name>

Windows:

StarlightLive load-image-rggb <FILENAME>

hope that helps :-)

Paul 

I had some trouble with the Windows command line syntax until I realized there was a typo in the above instructions. Here is what worked for me on Windows:

StarlightLive -load-image-rggb <filename>

Perhaps it was obvious to others, but at first I was missing the "-" in front of "load". Glad I figured it out.

 

[aparker]

On 3/1/2016 at 12:02, Paul81 said:

Yep the ICX829 CYGM is a pain - what you might be encountering is that the G / M lines alternate order in alternate lines, so its not

C Y
G M

reoccurring, but actually:

C Y
G M
C Y
M G

 

(I think I have that right - sorry replying to this off the top of my head rather than the code in front of me....).

Don has mentioned the critical fact - the CYGM sensor is more sensitive, but colour rendition is less accurate. The RGGB sensor has more accurate colour, but is less sensitive... For either type, their weaknesses can to some extent be reduced with either hue / sat corrections in SL, or by observing longer.

Wow - complex indeed.  I'm going to stick to mono sensors for the foreseeable future!

In response to the original question on the thread (how to post-process one's saved FIT files), I've been using Nebulosity (cheap) and GIMP (free) to work with mine (again mono, but Nebulosity supports all sorts of color CCDs too).  These have been working well for my initial forays.

 

Alex