Portable setup for central London & travel

[raston]

Hi all,

I'm just starting to get interested in astronomy again and have been reading some excellent and very helpful threads on this forum.

I live in central London but I do get out to darker regions fairly regularly. I'm planning to buy a reasonable pair of 10x50 bins (probably the Strathspey Waterproofs) which will give me a chance to start exploring the sky and will be useful in daytime too. But I'm also looking for recommendations for a good first telescope.

It needs to be extremely portable -- we don't have much storage space plus it will need to fit into a packed family car for the times we do get out of London. Ideally I'd be able to get all the kit in a rucksack so I can cycle (short distances) with it to higher and darker grounds. Budget for the scope and mount is probably £400-500.

I've been thinking a small mak (on a heavy duty photo tripod and with something like a Giro Mini) might be a reasonable choice. It would be good for moon, planets and double stars when in the city (can I realistically expect to see much else?) and when out of the haze of light pollution it would be ok for some deep sky stuff.

All advice very welcome!

Cheers,

Rich

[mcolbert]

Rich, what about one of those gadgets to attach your bins to the tripod?

michael

[Dave In Vermont]

Maksutov's are excellent choices for grab & go scopes, though their somewhat limited field-of-view (FOV) makes them difficult on larger DSO's. But no any one telescope will excel at everything. For planetary detail, close-in splitting of double-stars, the Moon, and so forth they  are great!

And to help you find your way around out there, here's a link to Stellarium - a huge star-charting & planetarium software-program. While others can cost some serious £'s, Stellarium is free:

http://www.stellarium.org/

An online instruction manual dwells here:

http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Stellarium_User_Guide

And the pdf. to download:

http://barry.sarcasmogerdes.com/stellarium/stellarium_user_guide-new.pdf

Enter your location and you will get a screen that is very realistic and can be tailored to suit your interests.

Good luck picking out a scope. Do feel free to keep asking questions - we love them.

Clear skies,

Dave

[ronin]

A small Mak is portable but I would not get one on a manual mount. They end up with a relatively narrow field of view and so objects can be difficult to locate and dificult to keep in view.

A nice 70-80mm refractor would be an option, unfortunately a 70(ish) mm ED is all your budget, thinking of the Altair offerings. If not wanted immediately check ABSUK for a possible used ED 80.

You could later add a small driven mount if you wanted tracking/goto at home or for use elsewhere (do you get to the Baker Street Astro at Regents Pk?). Something like the iOptron SmartEQ should do but ask about a bit more substantial tripod then the standard item as the standard one is not overly solid.

[cjdawson]

£300 buget, and Goto feature is kind of contradictory.  The problem is that the Goto stuff adds an overhead before you start looking the ota size.

Having said that I just looked and found that a Meade ETX-90 for £265.

http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Meade_ETX80_Special_Backpack_Package-1.html

The backpack package is a nice idea, but you'll still want to add a power bank - 8Ah should be enough, for this scope as you'll not need dew heaters - but will want to make a dew shield.

I say that you won't need dew heaters as I'm kind of assuming that you'll not be observing long enough on a single session to need them. Besides, you could always use a dew buster (12v hair dryer) if it does become an issue.

I'd check if that package comes with the tripod - looks like it does, but I'd double check.

Also, you'd be well advised to upgrade from the #494 autostar, to the #497.  The difference is that the #497 is a much better hand controller, and has a serial port that allows you to control the scope from a computer, (or iPad/iPhone/Android, using a SkyFi, SkyWire or similar )

[Stu]

I actually agree with Ronin in this case. One of the beauties of being somewhere dark is being able to take in some of the larger, wide field objects.

Assuming that by 'small mak', you are talking about a 90 or at most a 102mm, aperture wise I believe the primary mirrors are slightly smaller than this, and once you've taken into account the secondary obstruction there is probably not a lot in it vs an ED80.

The refractor will cool faster, be just as capable of showing high mag views but will have the benefit of being able to go wide as well, with suitable eyepieces of course.

To achieve this you would probably need to go for a used ED80 or similar. The mini giro mounts work very well so I agree with this choice if you can get one within your budget.

One problem may be affording a few decent eyepieces. Ideally one wide field, one mid range and one high power would do it, but you are probably looking at £50 each for BST explorers or used TV Plossls for example.

An ED80 will be quite capable of splitting some nice doubles, will show some planetary detail and be great on the moon too. Pick up a cheapish UHC filter and you could be getting the Veil and North America Nebula at a dark site too.

I've taken small ED apo fracs all over the place, including abroad and they really do deliver.

[Stu]

Rich,

I just remembered this thread too. A really good idea which seems to work well, and can save you some of your budget to allow for eyepieces etc.

http://stargazerslounge.com/index.php?/topic/247988-Grab-and-Go-Mount---Ball-Head-and-Pan-plate-Combo/page__view__findpost__p__2698473

[raston]

Michael -- yep I'll definitely get a tripod mount for the bins. Just working out what tripod to get, which means I'll need to have a rough idea of what scope would be best first.

Dave -- I've downloaded Stellarium. It's excellent. Love that you can preview what different scope/lens combos might show.

[raston]

£300 buget, and Goto feature is kind of contradictory.  The problem is that the Goto stuff adds an overhead before you start looking the ota size.

Having said that I just looked and found that a Meade ETX-90 for £265.

http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Meade_ETX80_Special_Backpack_Package-1.html

The backpack package is a nice idea, but you'll still want to add a power bank - 8Ah should be enough, for this scope as you'll not need dew heaters - but will want to make a dew shield.

I say that you won't need dew heaters as I'm kind of assuming that you'll not be observing long enough on a single session to need them. Besides, you could always use a dew buster (12v hair dryer) if it does become an issue.

I'd check if that package comes with the tripod - looks like it does, but I'd double check.

Also, you'd be well advised to upgrade from the #494 autostar, to the #497.  The difference is that the #497 is a much better hand controller, and has a serial port that allows you to control the scope from a computer, (or iPad/iPhone/Android, using a SkyFi, SkyWire or similar )

Thanks for the advice, but was this meant for a different thread? Maybe this one: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/252203-telescope-recommendation/

[raston]

ronin & BigSumorian,

Thanks for all the advice and the tips about a small refractor. I was considering a 102mm mak -- would the image via a 70/80mm refractor be comparable?

I'm not in a massive hurry so happy to wait for something good second hand. So this leads to a few more questions:

- Where are good places to find second hand equipment? Anywhere worth checking apart from ABSUK and eBay?

- Any other recommended small refactors apart from the ED80 and the Altair ones?

- What is the chromatic aberration like on an ED80? This was something that was putting me off refractors.

Cheers

Rich

[raston]

Rich,

I just remembered this thread too. A really good idea which seems to work well, and can save you some of your budget to allow for eyepieces etc.

http://stargazerslounge.com/index.php?/topic/247988-Grab-and-Go-Mount---Ball-Head-and-Pan-plate-Combo/page__view__findpost__p__2698473

That's a really interesting idea. Might be a good budget option if I end up spending more on a scope, but I'm hoping (probably naively) to try a buy good equipment that I can keep for a while, rather than cheap items that I'll want to upgrade quickly. 

[Stu]

ronin & BigSumorian,

Thanks for all the advice and the tips about a small refractor. I was considering a 102mm mak -- would the image via a 70/80mm refractor be comparable?

I'm not in a massive hurry so happy to wait for something good second hand. So this leads to a few more questions:

- Where are good places to find second hand equipment? Anywhere worth checking apart from ABSUK and eBay?

- Any other recommended small refactors apart from the ED80 and the Altair ones?

- What is the chromatic aberration like on an ED80? This was something that was putting me off refractors.

Cheers

Rich

Personally I would go for an 80ED every time. I'm not even sure I could explain why, but they are lovely little scopes, cracking contrast and lovely sharp stars. CA for visual will be no problem at all, they are very popular for imaging which says something too. I've not done a side by side with a 102mm Mak but I doubt you would be disappointed.

I would stick with ABS as first preference. Good kit does come up on there if you take your time, but respond quickly when the ads appear.

I'm not the best person to advise on the different variants, but make sure you get a decent focused, ideally dual speed if at all possible.

[Stu]

That's a really interesting idea. Might be a good budget option if I end up spending more on a scope, but I'm hoping (probably naively) to try a buy good equipment that I can keep for a while, rather than cheap items that I'll want to upgrade quickly.

Agreed on buying well and buying once, just an option if budget gets tight

[mcolbert]

somewhere on SGL there was a thread also about using spotting scopes, either 65 or 85 mm come to mind.  I can't remember what the pro's and cons were but it might also be something to consider.

michael

[cjdawson]

Thanks for the advice, but was this meant for a different thread? Maybe this one: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/252203-telescope-recommendation/

quite possibly, I think I got mixed up on which thread I was looking at.

[nicoscy]

Ron,

I was about to suggest a 80mm ED as well and there is a fairly priced one on ABS UK now, but since you mention putting everything in a backpack and cycling to darker areas, then it will either be a 90mm to 100mm Mak or a 72mm ED Refractor.

I recommend this tripod from Berlebach, this gyro head from Tele-Optic and this Mak from Teleskop Service along with this refractor from Teleskop Service. 

The "problem" with your budget is that you cannot get the ED refractor and a good portable mount and tripod for the money, tripod and mount being compact enough to carry.

I am not suggesting you source everything from 3 sources, but if you PM me, I can give you my contact's details in Germany. He sources everything for me, checks it and then sends it, so I pay only EUR 20 for shipping up to 30 - 35 kilos of weight (plus shipping once only as he boxes everything together).

My recommendation is based primarily on having a very good future proof mount and tripod, both of which are portable. Mounting is critical to enjoying any scope.

Then you have the Mak which is a suitable double star and planetary scope within the limits of 90mm aperture, and comes with a diagonal and a couple of eyepieces and red dot finder, which you can also  use on my second recommendation, the 80mm f5 achro. You can find plenty of reviews of this scope around, especially on Cloudynights Forum where it seems to be enjoying a strong following.

The Skywatcher 80mm Achro will allow you to enjoy wide field views of DSO and since it will not be used for lunar or planetary, but mostly very low to low mid magnifications, chromatic aberration is not an issue. Find a suitable bag and you can carry even both scopes with you when you go out, tripod, mount and eyepieces and accessories. The 80mm Shorttube is the cockroach of astronomy - it is everywhere, been around for ages and practically everybody has had one and for good reason - they are excellent scopes for the price.

You can later upgrade the focuser to a 2" model (GSO has a focuser that fits right in) and go from 4 degrees true field of view max to a 6 degree true field of view (with appropriate eyepieces).

Only marginally above your budget but you can have your cake and eat it. The tripod can accept quite a higher load in the future and so can the mount, which can also in the future be fitted with a counterweight for a much heavier scope. Both telescopes are low cost and quite good and can be sold if necessary in the future with overall little loss in value. All pieces of equipment are relatively low weight and small in size.

HOWEVER, if the budget can be stretched a bit more, there are two Skywatcher ED80 in ABS UK, this and this. Get this with the tripod and mount and you got a combo for life. 

[raston]

Thanks Nico -- some excellent ideas. And thanks for the very kind offer to help sourcing things via Germany.

The ST80 + small Mak combination is pretty interesting especially since they could balance each other nicely on the twin arm Giro Mini. Would the ST80 be able to act as a large finderscope in that configuration?

I do think that I'll eventually end up with a 70-80mm ED or APO even if I can't quite justify it right now. Would that make a 102mm mak redundant or would the mak still have an advantage for some observing with the bigger aperture?

That Berleback tripod is beautiful although possibly a bit short? And presumambly would need a centre column to get the scopes out of the way of the legs when using a Giro Mini. So probably out of my price range for now. I've been thinking that a second hand Manfrotto 055 or similar would be sturdy enough for these small scopes. Would that work, or are there other tripod anyone could recommend?

Cheers

Rich