Completely lost

[Mike12421]

Hello everyone, this is my first post after reading many, many posts.

I am completely new to photography and specifically astrophotography. I am lost as to what camera to buy. I want to capture astro-timelapse and I'm willing to spend anything up to around £2000, however this is for a camera, lense, tripod and essentials. I'm not interested in any other sort of photography and so day time use is not necessary. This is obviously a lot of money, however I plan on keeping this kit for some time.

I am bewildered by the amount of different cameras and lenses that can be bought. I am at a complete loss.

I know my question is very encompassing however I'm after everyone's advice so that I don't waste my money.

Thank you in advance.

Mike.

[jambouk]

1. Post some links to the sort of images you'd like to mimic to give us an idea of what you would like to achieve.

2. Where are you olanning on doing the bulk of your inaging from, what is the light pollution like there? Is there mains electricity there and if not do you have a leisure battery?

3. How much experience / knowledge do you have about cameras at present?

4. How much experience / knowledge do you have about photo manipulation software and post-capture processing?

James

[Dave In Vermont]

For that sum of money, the sky truly is the limit! You could be nicely outfitted for conventional AP (AstroPhotography), as well as the newer field of Video-AP - which is taking off like a rocket.

This if the cash is burning a hole in your pocket - a situation most of us exhibit in varying degrees. As a side here, here's a link to a Video-AP site where folks hook-up their video-cams and do live broadcasting at night. I've been watching it mushroom larger & larger in a short period of time:

http://www.nightskiesnetwork.com/

Clear Skies & Clean Lenses,

Dave

[Mike12421]

Thank you so much for replying, so many times you see people being shot down when asking for help.

I have attached two photos of the sort of astrophotography I aspire to be able to achieve.

The light pollution by mine (inner city Cheshire) is quite high and so my plan is to do mine whilst camping in dark sky sites. As for power, I planned on getting a mobile battery pack to power the camera and laptop.

I have very little knowledge about cameras and even less about photo software, however I can't wait to learn.

Thanks again,

Michael.

[ronin]

Before everyome jumps in with astrophotography suggestions the requirement is time lapse which is not the astrophotography that is normally covered.

I am not exactly sure where time lapse fits into astrophotography, it is not "long exposure" as if you track the object as in AP there is no apparent time lapse. That leaves a fixed tripod and in effect a "normal" camera and lens.

A time lapse exposure has to be of the sky moving e.g. the Milky Way. Something like the Crab Nebula is not moving sufficent to be an option.

Really a good camera that has a high ISO option and low noise, then a good lens. Would suggest a prime lens say a 50mm prime or smaller like 28mm or 35mm. To get a series of image at intervals you would need a  remote time or intervalometer on the camera. Set it to one exposure of 20 seconds at 5 minute intervals. Let the camera take a noise reduction exposure and the remainder of the time the sensor will cool down. Nice big memory card, spare battery - you cannot swap batteries part way through a series of exposures.

Not sure an astro modified camera will help at all either, suspect it may be a bad decision.

You will need to know how to use a camera and what you have to set - it is no use having the DSLR sort of automatic. It does not have the software for astro imaging of any sort, meaning you have to know what altering each parameter does. Besides letting less light through what does stopping a lens down effect?

Ask in the imaging section if anyone has experience of time lapse, I would also start searching the web.

EDIT TIME:

The images shown are not time lapse, oddly they are not normal long eposure AP either.

In AP it is normal to track the object take several images and stack them, however with the ground in the ones given tracking an object means the ground "moves" and that is not present.

They are a single shot exposure of sufficent time to collect enough light but short enough to show no trailing, as said I guess about 20 seconds max.

Likely as above good camera, high ISO capability, low noise, probably a 28mm to 50mm prime lens. Lens is likely to cost the most.

One image says Canon EOS 6D.

[jambouk]

Michael,

They are lovely images! I think the top one was winner of astrophotographer of the year.

I hope there isn't a feeling out there that people are worried to ask questions for fear of being shot down. I suspect there may be some frustration by long-stnading members that new people don't search the forum for similar questions to their own before asking, but the forum is vast and it can be daunting to know where to, and how to best search for what you are after, so is easier to just post a new question, even if it might have been asked just hours before. But if anyone appears rude, people should just click the report button as the rude individual needs to be told they are being rude and to alter their tone in future.

Anyway, so here goes.

I wouldn't call the images above "time lapse". For me time lapse is when substantial period of time are compressed into a smaller unit of time

 - so a star trail may be considered to be time lapse, like my star trail in this link https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153682376830968&set=o.130033853814216&type=1 which was a series of exposures taken over 8.5 hours and then merged into one image

 - or a time lapse video where again time appears to be speeded up and a long period of time compressed into a shorter period of time (like this video I made https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152490974920968 where two hours of Jupiter rotating is compressed into just a few seconds)

I'm not sure what I would call them though, probably just "DSLR widefield" If you do some digging, they are probably individual exposures of 10-30 seconds. So prolonged exposuded, but certainly not "long" exposures.

So, as hinted above, to capture these sorts of images, you need a number of things, including:

- A good camera sensor

 - with low noise at high[er] ISO

 - high quantum efficiency

- A good lens

 - able to let lots of light in, so a fast lens with a low f/ number

 - probably a reasonably wide angle lens with a low focal length (10-28mm)

 - with low optical aberration (so no distortion at the edge of the field of view)

- A steady set up

 - a solid floor

 - a sturdy tripod

- No light pollution

- Perfect seeing

 - optimal atmospherics

 - no Jet Stream

- Top quality processing

 - lots of adjustments in various photo adjustment software packages

- Some luck

I have the Canon 6D and I love it. It meets many of the requirements for the camera/sensor, so could strongly recommend that. Having said that, I also have a 600D and I love that to bits, especially the flip out LCD on the back; it tolerates higher ISO remarkably well.

The Samyang 24 f/1.4 lens appears to be good, but I don't own one [yet]: https://www.extremeinstability.com/2013-5-4.html

You can get a sturdy tripod anywhere, you'd probably want to go to a nice camera shop and have a feel of them, you want something which isn't too heavy to carry though and ideally comes with a bag so you can sling it over your shoulder, you can get a really nice one for under £100 in my opinion.

There is some free software out there; CS3 Photoshop was free online, but not sure it still is. Otherwise you'd probably want to get a copy of Photoshop or similar. There will be a massive learning curve with that though, and some people [like myself] really can't get into the processing side of things.

Seeing... the British weather isn't the most reliable, so you have to come to terms with that. You may well spend a week away on an astro-holiday and not have one clear night. I encounter this often, but now I take it in my stirde and take plenty of books and wine away too I'm not sure how the Jet Stream influences DSLR widefield, but something you could easily read up about online somewhere.

Light pollution... I think this is going to be your biggest issue. There are very few places in the UK where the light pollution won't be an issue. There are various light pollution maps for the UK online (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDMQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avex-asso.org%2Fdossiers%2Fwordpress%2F%3Fpage_id%3D127&ei=V-sgVZr0MNfmapGcgOAJ&usg=AFQjCNHaBFgly3d--qbT0tPNDBFIGQZSdQ&bvm=bv.89947451,d.d2s) but these are gross maps and don't take into account a single house or farm one mile away from your location with a security light on shining right where you don't want it to shine! Lots of tese lovely images we see are taken in real remote locations in deserts hundreds of miles away from anything. We have very few locations like that and light pollution is a real killer of faint objects, but having said that, you can still see the milky way with the nakes eye in many places in the UK, you just have to chose your location carefully.

I need to submit this response before I lose it, then carry on!

To be continued...

[jambouk]

So, I think you should do some digging, and see what sort of results people in the UK are achieving along these lines. Have a good luck in the Widefield section of the forum, and maybe post a question there about "what can I expect in the UK" or maybe repeat the same questions you have asked above.

Once you've done a bit of research, why not contact the guys who are making the images you love; you can easily track an email address for most people and these people are likely to be keen on helping others.

There are mutliple books out there on astrophotography with a DSLR, though I don't know of one dedicated to just this sort of widefield stuff, though they all cover it to an extent. I am a lover of books and these are the books I have on astrophotography which all have sections on this, but are all mostly devoted to using a DSLR with a telescope, the Robery Teeves book was written in the era of film, but many of the capture techniques are still relevant in the digital age (if you buy any, go for the second hand market place versions, I always go for the cheaper option):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Astrophotography-Practical-Amateur-Astronomy/dp/0521700817/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1428221746&sr=8-2&keywords=astrophotography+dslr I love this book, but again is mostly concerned with telescope image

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Astrophotography-Thierry-Legault/dp/1937538435/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1428221746&sr=8-4&keywords=astrophotography+dslr a new book but again mostly relates to telescope imaging

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Getting-Started-Astrophotography-Allan-Hall/dp/149736082X/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1428221746&sr=8-6&keywords=astrophotography+dslr as above

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-Astrophotography-Mark-Thompson-Photographing/dp/1849073147/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1428221809&sr=8-2&keywords=astrophotography another new book and I've not proberly looked in it yet

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Getting-Started-Long-Exposure-Astrophotography/dp/1484143477/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1428221809&sr=8-5&keywords=astrophotography mostly telescope-related imaging

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wide-Field-Astrophotography-Robert-Reeves/dp/0943396646/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428221875&sr=8-1&keywords=wide+field+astrophotography a lovely book, but again mostly concerned with the telescope and film cameras, but does have a widefield section and a digital section

The British Astronomical Association has an imaging section, maybe contact them and see what help or advice they could offer:

https://www.britastro.org/section_front/14

Here ends part II...

[jambouk]

So, for me I think you need to do one thing, much more research along the lines you are already doing, then I'd suggest one of two options.

Either start out simple [and cheaper] and see how you get on:

 - get a cheaper camera, like a 600D (£300, maybe cheaper second hand)

 - get a cheaper lens (£100)

 - get a good tripod as this will stand you in good stead for years (£100)

 - use free software

 - total spend probably £500

Or:

 - get a 6D or equivalent (£1000); I'm not convinced the 5D is greatly better just costs more

 - get a top lens (£500)

 - get a good tripod as this will stand you in good stead for years (£100)

 - get post Photoshop (not sure how much that costs)

 - total spend probably nearer your £2000

You also need to factor in a nice padded water-repellant bag, a couple of memory cards, maybe a battery grip and spare batteries, an intervalometer (wired ones used to be MUCH cheaper than wireless ones, and less easy to lose, but now I see there are newer wireless ones which are cheaper (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Andoer%C2%AE-Remote-Control-Shutter-Release/dp/B00RQ0SOO6/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1428223134&sr=1-6&keywords=6d+time+lapse) vs (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Neewer-Shutter-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver/dp/B00RHD862M/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1428223134&sr=1-2&keywords=6d+time+lapse)...

Not sure there is much else I can say.

I hope you make the right decisions and get the images you want

James

[Mick J]

Hi Mike and welcome,  you say you are new to photography, I was wondering if you already have and use a camera ?

[Stu]

As said, these are NOT time lapse, that aside posts #6, 7 and 8 should give you everything you need!!

[Mick J]

Just came across this site  http://www.amazingsky.com/   Alan Dyer seems to know what hes doing,  may be some useful info for you under the photography tab.

[Alien 13]

Very good advise has already been given but I would 2nd the use of the Samyang lenses if starting out they are fast good quality and reasonably cheap I would also add that some images of this type are composites made up of seperate sky and foreground exposures for this Photoshop is realy a must and a camera tracking mount like the SW Star adventurer would be benificial too.

Alan

[jambouk]

This thread made me order the Samyang lens

James