CPC 800 GOTO Problems

[zakkhogan]

did you get a change to test it Carl?

[Planet X]

did you get a change to test it Carl?

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! Craig i could buy you a beer mate    I changed the date to the US format and took it out into the garden a couple of hours ago,bingo!  I chose the two star auto align.  Used Aldebaran as my first star and then Pollux as my second, it said alignment successful so i asked it to go to Jupiter and it worked, flawlessly! Then i went for the Pleiades, Mizar, Polaris, the Moon and then back to Jupiter before the clouds rolled in.   I am really chuffed,got to admit i was hopping around the garden for a bit!  

So cheers for that mate,really really appreciate the advice,you nailed it.  Onward and upwards from now on,cant wait to get it set up for my daughter at the weekend and show her what it can do.

Carl

[PeterCPC]

Glad you got it sorted.

Peter

[Planet X]

Glad you got it sorted.

Peter

Thanks Peter,yes its a relief. Its looking good tonight so i am going to set up in the garden again.  I can see you use Starsense, do you recommend it?  How accurate is it?

Carl

[Jammy]

I made this same mistake one time after not using my goto for a while.  It took me hours to figure out what I'd done wrong! 

We live and learn... 

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Carl, just read through the thread, glad to see you got the scope working ok mate, the CPC,s are a fantastic range, I've used many scopes over the years and have settled on the CPC I think probably the best visual money can buy for portability and a very rigid mount to work from, enjoy the CPC and keep us informed.

Regards

Paul

[Planet X]

Hi Carl, just read through the thread, glad to see you got the scope working ok mate, the CPC,s are a fantastic range, I've used many scopes over the years and have settled on the CPC I think probably the best visual money can buy for portability and a very rigid mount to work from, enjoy the CPC and keep us informed.

Regards

Paul

Thanks Paul,heading outside in a moment. I see you have the Big Daddy to mine, the CPC1100. It looks like a monster,but i imagine the views are stunning. Can you actually set it up on your own or is it a two man job?  Also you are using the Baader Hyperions,i have read great reviews on these. I managed to find the 8-24 mark III zoom and the 24 mm on Gumtree this morning,i got both for £100,so i think i may have scored there.  

Cheers Carl

[Northern Soul man]

Great Carl - nice find mateIve had the Hyperions for sometime and find them to be great EPs for the money I havelongfocal length scopes,so the hyperionswork very well at these focal length scopes.

Yes, I can set up on my own - its not too bad to carry the tube for long distances the well placed carry handles really makes the job of carrying it much easier so long as you hold the tube close into your body. The 800 is a really fine scope I had the Meade LX 90 8" for a few years, I wished I could have kept it, but I sold it to part fund the 1100 - to be honest there's not a great deal of difference between the 8 and the 11 - just maybe a slightly brighter image,but the detail on Jupiter really has to be worked at - I spend a lot of time on the planets, once you get a good night of seeing I don't think it matters if you have the 8 or the 11 the views through both will stay with you for such a long time, I web cammed through the 8 just before I sold it and had a real steady night, the views were nothing short of spectacular - I know people keep on about the loss of contrast in an SCT tube, but I find this not to be the case, if you can get a really good night with very steady seeing, the detail on view is just breathtaking - and its these nights which stay with me.

Just enjoy the 800 mate they're just great,rock steady planet eaters!!!

Paul.

[Planet X]

Thanks for all the advice Paul,its very much appreciated. Its quite sobering to realise just how much i dont know about this hobby!  You are right about  the 800, its solid as a rock.i get no image shift when focusing which is great after upgrading from a 6 inch newt.  I do find the standard focuser quite course so i am thinking of upgrading to either a Starlight feathertouch duel speed or i really like the look of the Revelation Astro rack & pinion SCT duel speed hybrid,it looks bomb proof and i have seen some pretty good reviews,only problem is everywhere has sold out of them, so i am assuming that is a good sign!  What do you use?  I have a couple of standard colored filters which i have tested, with mixed results,do you think i need other filters to enhance detail?

I have to pinch myself when i am setting up the 800. I have still got my very first issue of the American "Astronomy" magazine from July 1986,it was in there that i first discovered a Celestron.  It was a C8 and i wanted it more than anything.  So,i have waited a long time to own one and after the initial disappointment of it not doing what i wanted (my fault) ,now i have it working perfectly its been well and truly worth the wait!   Back then i was 14 so could not afford one,i ended up buying a Tasco 3 inch refractor with my pocket money and tried desperately to find comet Halley which had made its appearance, but to no avail,but my love of astronomy had began.  My only regret is that i didnt get my Celestron years ago!

Carl

[PeterCPC]

Thanks Peter,yes its a relief. Its looking good tonight so i am going to set up in the garden again.  I can see you use Starsense, do you recommend it?  How accurate is it?

Carl

It is very useful if you want a quick set up - it is quite accurate but does need regular updating of the software. I haven't used it for Polar Alignment so I can't say how it copes with that yet.

It sets itself up in about 3 minutes with no input (almost) from me.

Peter

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Ya Carl - great mate - nice 1 

I have just the standard focuser in the CPC, I find this more than  for my needs, collimation is pretty much spot on for me, and like you, I have no image shift at all when focusing and really get on fine with the standard focuser - I just take my time and spend a while trying to get the best out of the conditions - under steady seeing, its quite easy to get the focus just about right - but I tend to re focus every few minutes just to see if I'm getting it right, but under really unsteady seeing, the focus becomes quite difficult, I just maintain the edge of say, Jupiter to try and get it as sharp as possible, I know this becomes quite difficult under poor seeing as the image is moving all over the place, so I then concentrate on the banding - making sure that its as dark as possible - then its very near focus - as soon as you move out of focus, the banding becomes lighter, so try to get it as dark as possible, then have a look at the disk edge, your likely to get a second or two of real steady atmosphere, but I just try and concentrate on finer detail, the longer I look, the more detail becomes easier to view - but this is only under very steady seeing, the detail your trying to pick out is very small on a small disk, so I think I have to work at it.

Regarding filters - I've got a box full of them, from the deep reds, blues and yellows, to the more lighter shades of the colours - like the pale yellows, pale blues - I think the pale colours work a little better than the full on blues, reds, oranges - because the full on colours give you a "full on" Blue, red or orange - making the disk very false - not so much as with the pale colours - the light blue especially.

The filters I find the best - are the ones that don't add any false colour - like the Variable Polarising filter set and the Neodymium Moon and Skyglow filter from Baader. These filters keep a certain amount of "trueness" and feel to each observation - I think If I were starting out again - I would concentrate on just these 2.

The Variable Polarising filter works very well, you screw them together and just rotate one against the other to vary the "brightness" you have passing through - I place one on the inside of the diagonal which goes into the scope, and screw the other onto the bottom of the EP - this way you can just rotate the EP to vary the light transmission "through" the filter - just by darkening the view just a little it takes the overall glare off the disk - still keeping the same colour - so more natural - the Neo I just screw on the inside of the diagonal, again, which goes into the scope end - so you can change EP's without having to change the filter every time you change EP's.

I think Televue have just released a filter - its called a "Planetary" filter, but there's a thread on here giving mixed feelings about it - so I think the Jury is still out - its quite expensive as well.

Not sure if you have any Astronomers local to you - say a club or Society - may be worth you popping along - you may be able to borrow and try before you buy.

The Polariser works well on the Moon as well, so its good to darken the "flashlight" they call the Moon beaming out of the EP.

Regards.

Paul.

[ollypenrice]

Well done Craig. This has come up several times before! And it still gets most of us from time to time...

Olly

[Warden]

Ahhh I've just ordered the NexStar evolution 6 so when it arrives I'll be sure to make sure the date is american format and not UK. Good tip, thank you.

[Planet X]

Well done Craig. This has come up several times before! And it still gets most of us from time to time...

Olly

I feel a little better now i know im not the only one who got caught out by this. If it wasnt for Craig i fear i would still be tearing my hair out,over something so simple as well!

[Planet X]

Hi Ya Carl - great mate - nice 1 

I have just the standard focuser in the CPC, I find this more than  for my needs, collimation is pretty much spot on for me, and like you, I have no image shift at all when focusing and really get on fine with the standard focuser - I just take my time and spend a while trying to get the best out of the conditions - under steady seeing, its quite easy to get the focus just about right - but I tend to re focus every few minutes just to see if I'm getting it right, but under really unsteady seeing, the focus becomes quite difficult, I just maintain the edge of say, Jupiter to try and get it as sharp as possible, I know this becomes quite difficult under poor seeing as the image is moving all over the place, so I then concentrate on the banding - making sure that its as dark as possible - then its very near focus - as soon as you move out of focus, the banding becomes lighter, so try to get it as dark as possible, then have a look at the disk edge, your likely to get a second or two of real steady atmosphere, but I just try and concentrate on finer detail, the longer I look, the more detail becomes easier to view - but this is only under very steady seeing, the detail your trying to pick out is very small on a small disk, so I think I have to work at it.

Regarding filters - I've got a box full of them, from the deep reds, blues and yellows, to the more lighter shades of the colours - like the pale yellows, pale blues - I think the pale colours work a little better than the full on blues, reds, oranges - because the full on colours give you a "full on" Blue, red or orange - making the disk very false - not so much as with the pale colours - the light blue especially.

The filters I find the best - are the ones that don't add any false colour - like the Variable Polarising filter set and the Neodymium Moon and Skyglow filter from Baader. These filters keep a certain amount of "trueness" and feel to each observation - I think If I were starting out again - I would concentrate on just these 2.

The Variable Polarising filter works very well, you screw them together and just rotate one against the other to vary the "brightness" you have passing through - I place one on the inside of the diagonal which goes into the scope, and screw the other onto the bottom of the EP - this way you can just rotate the EP to vary the light transmission "through" the filter - just by darkening the view just a little it takes the overall glare off the disk - still keeping the same colour - so more natural - the Neo I just screw on the inside of the diagonal, again, which goes into the scope end - so you can change EP's without having to change the filter every time you change EP's.

I think Televue have just released a filter - its called a "Planetary" filter, but there's a thread on here giving mixed feelings about it - so I think the Jury is still out - its quite expensive as well.

Not sure if you have any Astronomers local to you - say a club or Society - may be worth you popping along - you may be able to borrow and try before you buy.

The Polariser works well on the Moon as well, so its good to darken the "flashlight" they call the Moon beaming out of the EP.

Regards.

Paul.

Hi Ya Carl - great mate - nice 1 

I have just the standard focuser in the CPC, I find this more than  for my needs, collimation is pretty much spot on for me, and like you, I have no image shift at all when focusing and really get on fine with the standard focuser - I just take my time and spend a while trying to get the best out of the conditions - under steady seeing, its quite easy to get the focus just about right - but I tend to re focus every few minutes just to see if I'm getting it right, but under really unsteady seeing, the focus becomes quite difficult, I just maintain the edge of say, Jupiter to try and get it as sharp as possible, I know this becomes quite difficult under poor seeing as the image is moving all over the place, so I then concentrate on the banding - making sure that its as dark as possible - then its very near focus - as soon as you move out of focus, the banding becomes lighter, so try to get it as dark as possible, then have a look at the disk edge, your likely to get a second or two of real steady atmosphere, but I just try and concentrate on finer detail, the longer I look, the more detail becomes easier to view - but this is only under very steady seeing, the detail your trying to pick out is very small on a small disk, so I think I have to work at it.

Regarding filters - I've got a box full of them, from the deep reds, blues and yellows, to the more lighter shades of the colours - like the pale yellows, pale blues - I think the pale colours work a little better than the full on blues, reds, oranges - because the full on colours give you a "full on" Blue, red or orange - making the disk very false - not so much as with the pale colours - the light blue especially.

The filters I find the best - are the ones that don't add any false colour - like the Variable Polarising filter set and the Neodymium Moon and Skyglow filter from Baader. These filters keep a certain amount of "trueness" and feel to each observation - I think If I were starting out again - I would concentrate on just these 2.

The Variable Polarising filter works very well, you screw them together and just rotate one against the other to vary the "brightness" you have passing through - I place one on the inside of the diagonal which goes into the scope, and screw the other onto the bottom of the EP - this way you can just rotate the EP to vary the light transmission "through" the filter - just by darkening the view just a little it takes the overall glare off the disk - still keeping the same colour - so more natural - the Neo I just screw on the inside of the diagonal, again, which goes into the scope end - so you can change EP's without having to change the filter every time you change EP's.

I think Televue have just released a filter - its called a "Planetary" filter, but there's a thread on here giving mixed feelings about it - so I think the Jury is still out - its quite expensive as well.

Not sure if you have any Astronomers local to you - say a club or Society - may be worth you popping along - you may be able to borrow and try before you buy.

The Polariser works well on the Moon as well, so its good to darken the "flashlight" they call the Moon beaming out of the EP.

Regards.

Paul.

Hi Paul

You obviously have quite a bit of experience in the planetary field.  I only have  red and orange filters and like you i would say the image is a little "false" so i am going to look for something that gives a more true image whilst at the same time bringing out a little more detail.  I would like to try and extract as much detail as possible from Mars but given the small apparent disc size in the eyepiece i know its not an easy thing to do. Its very much as you say,the atmospheric conditions are probably just as important as fine focusing when it comes to detail. Will check out the Variable Polarizing filter and the skyglow, they sound like they give a more true representation.  Do these two filters also help with viewing galaxies and nebula?

I did manage to get a really good deal earlier on Astro Buy & Sell,i found a Baader Steeltrack Crayford Fine focuser.  Call me old fashioned but i just like the feeling of a wheel to focus. This is probably down to me using the Crayford focuser on my Newt for years.  The focus knob on my 800 just feels a little weird to me.  When i chose my scope it was a toss up between the Nexstar 8 SE and my 800. I am really pleased that i went for the latter as i cant imagine the 8SE being anywhere near as stable as the 800.  It weighs a hell of a lot but it is worth it when you get such a stable image.  When i used to focus on my old Newt the image danced all over the place,no such problems now though. 

Carl

[Planet X]

Had in interesting evening observing today.  I used the Solar System Align method as it was still pretty much daylight when we started.  Aligned on Venus and tried to Goto Mars and bingo, found it no problem. Then tried Jupiter and again it found and tracked it nicely. It was a very clear sky but the seeing was not the best,still some great detail on Jupiter was on show.  Stuck with Jupiter for about three quarter of an hour and then tried Auto two star align which told me was successful so i did a Goto Orion Nebula and it went straight to it and pretty much centered it which was great. However,then it started behaving in a manner which i did not understand!  I asked it to Goto Mizar and it went to completely the wrong part of the sky,oh dear.  Did two star align again,used Aldebaran and Polaris as these were on the opposite side of the sky,alignment was a success so asked it to find Jupiter,it missed it by miles and pointed pretty much at the zenith!  Aligned it all again this time using Sirius and Polaris and did a Goto to Orion nebula again which was fine, but then asked it to find Mizar again and it went to the wrong part of the Sky again. At this point i did a return to factory settings,powered down and then aligned again but it continued slew to the wrong part of the sky.  The date was entered in the American way and the correct time was imputed.  It is confusing as it seems to work and then quickly loses where it is.  Not sure what to do with it now.  will try again tomorrow night. 

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Ya Planet - seemed like a good start then it sort of went downhill from there - wonder how you are powering the scope, have you got a separate power supply and is it charged fully, as it may be down to a low supply where you are experiencing problems - you say that you stuck with Jupiter for a while and then had to do an auto 2 star align, did the scope lose power and then you had to re - align, only once the alignment is done and it shows success, it should be good to go all night - you shouldn't have to re - align the scope half way through a session unless the scope lost power.

If your using a power tank to supply electric to the scope - make sure its fully charged, I use a motorcycle battery charger and keep it connected all the time - so every time I come to use the scope the power supply is fully charged - the type of charger I use is called a battery optimiser - you can keep this type of charger connected all the time.

Paul.

[impactcrater]

scopes can get confused if the sky is not fully night...

[impactcrater]

firtly, we have all been on the infamous 'learning curve'.   the fact that it worked so well w solar alignment means the scope is working properly . so , one then asks the question 'is it me ?'  and it will nearly always be. I would not keep updating and going back to factory . stay on factory til you get the hang of this art. now, really read the instructions again about alignment. the first star needs to be under 70 degrees. I now always chose an easy star at comfortable sight height , usually using stellarium as my guide. I chose another star in a similar horizontal plane and well across the sky from the first , say a half head turns worth  . I select this from the choices and usually all goes well. I still get the odd failure but that is the price we pay for very clever digitalisation.

good luck...

ps make sure not to confuse auto two star align and two star align...they are very different.

[PeterCPC]

I wonder, again, if it's a power issue. Have you got a mains adapter that you could try?

Peter

[Planet X]

I wonder, again, if it's a power issue. Have you got a mains adapter that you could try?

Peter

I have only got the 12v cable from the Celestron Powetank to scope.  I dont have a mains adapter but i think i am going to use the cable i have directly from my car's 12v outlet,i have a PT Cruiser so there is a handy one in the boot.  I have also got a new replacement 12v power lead which is the same as above so i will give that a go too.  I suppose it is just a process of elimination.

Carl

[Planet X]

Hi Ya Planet - seemed like a good start then it sort of went downhill from there - wonder how you are powering the scope, have you got a separate power supply and is it charged fully, as it may be down to a low supply where you are experiencing problems - you say that you stuck with Jupiter for a while and then had to do an auto 2 star align, did the scope lose power and then you had to re - align, only once the alignment is done and it shows success, it should be good to go all night - you shouldn't have to re - align the scope half way through a session unless the scope lost power.

If your using a power tank to supply electric to the scope - make sure its fully charged, I use a motorcycle battery charger and keep it connected all the time - so every time I come to use the scope the power supply is fully charged - the type of charger I use is called a battery optimiser - you can keep this type of charger connected all the time.

Paul.

Hi mate,yes it was really encouraging whilst viewing the planets,my daughter was "over the moon" seeing three of them in one evening. So initially it was great but then went a bit pear shaped!  I only re-aligned when it missed the Goto by so much i knew it was wrong, thats the reason i had to do so many re-aligns, it kept pointing at an entirely wrong part of the sky for the object it was supposed to be looking at.  I am using a Celestron Powertank,i have got it on charge now so i am going to wait until it is fully charged before using it. Also i am going to try and run it from the 12v outlet in the boot of my car,if it runs fine off that then it may be a power issue with the powertank. If it does the same thing from there then its something else.  Hopefully i get a chance to have another go tonight,it is getting rather annoying i must say.

Carl

[Planet X]

firtly, we have all been on the infamous 'learning curve'.   the fact that it worked so well w solar alignment means the scope is working properly . so , one then asks the question 'is it me ?'  and it will nearly always be. I would not keep updating and going back to factory . stay on factory til you get the hang of this art. now, really read the instructions again about alignment. the first star needs to be under 70 degrees. I now always chose an easy star at comfortable sight height , usually using stellarium as my guide. I chose another star in a similar horizontal plane and well across the sky from the first , say a half head turns worth  . I select this from the choices and usually all goes well. I still get the odd failure but that is the price we pay for very clever digitalisation.

good luck...

ps make sure not to confuse auto two star align and two star align...they are very different.

Hi,i have read the manual,quite a lot actually,you get to do quite a lot of that here with the almost permanent cloud cover!  I am surprised that it worked so well on Solar System Align as this is supposed to be the quickest and least accurate of the alignment options so yes that was a good sign.  I am going to try each and every one of the align procedures to see if i have better results.  I have got the manual in front of me now and there is no reference in the alignment section pages 13 to 17 to a star having to be under 70 degrees,maybe i have an older manual?

[Northern Soul man]

Nice 1 Carl, its good to know your starting to get the hang of the scope - when I set up I usually level the tripod, then manually align the scope on Polaris, I then check and align the finder scope it usually needs a little tweak, then switch the scope on and leave it until the correct time shows on the handset - I then know that its picked up the GPS signal, but I just scroll through using the arrows on the handset to check that its got the correct Longitude and Lat and Date (the date is most important as sometimes I check and its out by about 10 YEARS!!).

Then when Polaris is centred in the finder and the scope (Polaris doesn't move much so I make sure I'm centred), I use Polaris as the first star for my Auto 2 star align - job done, then away to the second star - its not usually too far out, just centre and align and then i'm done for the night.

I mentioned the power, as this is one of the major problems people come up against - in the early days, the scopes had a place for individual batteries - these were a real problem and very unreliable, especially in cold weather- they would run flat very quickly.

I use a 17ah power tank from Maplins - been using it for a couple of years now - as said- I always place it back on charge after every use, the "trickle" charger I mentioned works very well and maintains a full charge, I run the scope and dew heater from it and never really had a "bad" alignment over the 2 or so years I've been running the CPC.

Keep us informed Carl on how things are going and above all enjoy the 800 and make the best out of Jupiter at the moment its really well placed.

Paul.

[Planet X]

Nice 1 Carl, its good to know your starting to get the hang of the scope - when I set up I usually level the tripod, then manually align the scope on Polaris, I then check and align the finder scope it usually needs a little tweak, then switch the scope on and leave it until the correct time shows on the handset - I then know that its picked up the GPS signal, but I just scroll through using the arrows on the handset to check that its got the correct Longitude and Lat and Date (the date is most important as sometimes I check and its out by about 10 YEARS!!).

Then when Polaris is centred in the finder and the scope (Polaris doesn't move much so I make sure I'm centred), I use Polaris as the first star for my Auto 2 star align - job done, then away to the second star - its not usually too far out, just centre and align and then i'm done for the night.

I mentioned the power, as this is one of the major problems people come up against - in the early days, the scopes had a place for individual batteries - these were a real problem and very unreliable, especially in cold weather- they would run flat very quickly.

I use a 17ah power tank from Maplins - been using it for a couple of years now - as said- I always place it back on charge after every use, the "trickle" charger I mentioned works very well and maintains a full charge, I run the scope and dew heater from it and never really had a "bad" alignment over the 2 or so years I've been running the CPC.

Keep us informed Carl on how things are going and above all enjoy the 800 and make the best out of Jupiter at the moment its really well placed.

Paul.

Lol!,how can it be out by ten years with GPS? That is funny,im glad it not just me then.  I am going to keep a close look at what the handset is saying from now on!  Its a good idea using Polaris as there is nothing really around it to get confused by.  I am going to try out your procedure and see what happens,hopefully i can get to grips with it and make it as reliable as yours.

You are right about Jupiter,it looked lovely last night,all four major moons were visible.  I even managed to get a half decent photo showing its equatorial bands, by holding up a compact digital camera up to the eyepiece so that was a first!  

Carl