Completely new to astronomy - in a city with light pollution.

[relyksrc]

Hi everyone,

I guess this is a bit of an intro, as well as a question! You can skip ahead to the question if you'd like.

I'm Skyler/Skye, and I'm completely new to this website and actively trying to pursue astronomy as a hobby.
I'm from Ontario, Canada.

As a kid I lived in a small city and was quite interested in astronomy, always walking around with books about the planets or inventing alien stories. Haha. I always wanted to see what was out there, and we got a telescope and everything. Then life happened, and my mom and I moved, my dad kept the telescope and I was really young so I just moved on to other things.

I still live in the big city we moved to, I'm 19 now, and realizing I feel this has actually been missing from my life for quite some time now. I feel calm just sitting outside at night, and it'd be amazing to actually get into it "again", but on a more mature and educational scale. I read through the pinned post, and opted to get a pair of binoculars off of a reputable website which I'll place an order for, probably tomorrow, if shipping prices are half decent before I get a telescope.

I had, and have one major concern.
I don't drive, or have any friends who drive or who are into this as a hobby. Public transportation ends around 1AM and begins again around 4. It half forces people to only travel within the city when it's daylight hours, which makes getting to the outskirts, or even out of the city impossible.

Are there any people who are able to stargaze in cities with light pollution who have some suggestions and advice on how to make it work, or is it a lost cause that I should give up on now? I've heard it's terrible in the middle of cities, and I'd believe it completely, but with my situation between finances and living/driving situations, it's my only option. I'd appreciate any information, ideas or tips people have on improving their stargazing with light pollution.

Thanks in advance!

[ghostdance]

Hi & welcome!

I live in London (UK version) and my light pollution is pretty bad. However, there's still plenty of stuff up there to see! I think getting some good binoculars is a great way to start - you'll see plenty of stars and even some DSOs that are not naked-eye visible. Have a look at 7×50 for good widefield, or 10×50 for a closer view. City observing isn't hopeless, just more of a challenge. As for scopes, the advice I've read is that bigger aperture=better in high light pollution conditions. Having said that I have only a baby dob, 4.5", and I'm still finding enough to keep me occupied

So, get going! Party's just starting...and I for one am looking forward to hearing your stargazing adventures.

All the best

Steve.

[relyksrc]

Wow! That was a lot of help, and quite inspiring. Thank you! I'll check into the binoculars I can afford with one of those settings.. cheaper than a good telescope and gives a good starting point with better quality than a cheap telescope from what I've heard.. accurate? The pinned post also suggested starting with them. I'd be good with either for now since I'm just starting off. I'm thinking maybe 10x50 might help with the light pollution, but I'm not entirely sure. What does the 50 stand for, if you don't mind me asking? I can't seem to find anywhere what the second number is.. I know the first is magnification.

I'm not familliar with all of these terms yet, but I've been "decoding" your message and already I've learned a lot! Lol. You've been a lot of help. I'll be sure to get going soon! Haha. I'm happy now that I know there's hope.

Thank you so much.
-Skye.

[ghostdance]

Hi Skye

Glad it helped. In my skies unaided I see only the brighter stars clearly but through binoculars or my tiny scope, there are lots. So there's always hope! It helps of course if your can get away from major lighting (streetlights etc) or can get above them - on a roof, say. I find it helps if I set up in a shadowed place, even tho the skies above are orange. And looking straight up (the zenith) usually had the least light pollution (you'll see it referred to as LP here).

The 50 stands for 50mm, the stated size of the front (objective) lenses. Generally the bigger the better (more light gathering). Another size common and useful is 15x70, but they tend to be better mounted on a tripod or monopod - it's not impossible to hand hold them tho, which is not possible with the really big binoculars...

What else? Well, a good guide to the sky of which there are several. Try searching for Turn Left at Orion (highly recommended), Pocket Sky Atlas as a start. Also have a look at Binocular Sky (great website run by one of SGL's own - he has also written a book, which is on my list to buy). Check out the Binocular Forum here on SGL.

There'll be loads of much more knowledgeable and experienced advice from everyone here. Enjoy!

[swag72]

Hi Skye and welcome to SGL - I can't help with your questions as I don't live in a city and I don't do visual .... Actually looking for stuff ? *shudders*!!! But from what I understand binoculars are a good starting point. You can also download Stellarium, a free planetarium programme and that will help you to navigate your way around the sky a little. I guess that it's all a big adventure, so kick back and enjoy it!!

Look forward to seeing you around

[NGC 1502]

Hi to you in Ontario, and welcome to SGL.

I live in a large town in the UK.   It's very possible to do great astronomy under a light polluted sky. Below are some ideas to make it more rewarding.

If you can find a spot with no lights shining directly at you, that's a big help.  If there are local lights you cannot avoid, try shading them from you. Many options for that, I use a tarpaulin pegged between an outbuilding and a tree.  So many different options here, unique to every backyard.

Some sky objects are far less affected by light pollution - Moon, planets, double stars.  If you can get a telescope for Solar viewing ( make absolutely certain it's ok for that, and read up in depth before you even think about doing it ) then of course daytime astronomy is unaffected by light pollution.

Joining a local astronomy club is always a good move.

Happy stargazing, Ed.

[Jim Steele]

Hi Skye and welcome to SGL.

Stargazing in lp skies is not impossible just difficult. Binoculars are a good start since they'll help you get orientated and they are really portable for when you can leave the city smudge.

Camping is also a good pastime if you can get together with some mates for the weekend, have a few beers and take the binoculars with you for a bit of opportunistic star gazing.

Ben

[PeterCPC]

Hi and welcome.

Peter

[rowan46]

i live in a largish city in the second most light polluted area of the uk ad manage to get some astronomy done. Binoculars are good  but at some point you will want a telescope. I would recommend a celestron c5 spotting scope a decent lightweight mount ad a decent light photo tripod this is what I use for the mount it does take a c5 pretty comfortably http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1795_Tecnosky-eLLe-Binomount---Montierung-fuer-Gro-fernglaeser-bis-100mm.html

there are other scopes which are portable but nothing with this apparture that is so portable  ad nothing that is as easy to carry as this set up

[ronin]

Which city in Ontario?

Sounds like the Toronto area owing to the public transport, or at least the southern areas of Ontario.

If you look up RASC (Roayl Astronomical Society of Canada) there have 12 clubs/groups in Ontario and all appear in the Toronto/Niagara/Hamilton/London area. Thinking they may have city locations they meet at. Rather like London here has the BSIA group that meet in Regents Park.

[Charic]

relyksrc.......Hi, and welcome.  Its all been said above, so not much more to add except don't give up. If you can see stuff with the naked eye, your going to see far more with binoculars, that's a fact. If you buy 10x50 binoculars of good quality, that will be a sound investment, as they can also be used for daylight terrestrial use. Anything above 10x magnification will generally require some form of support/tripod to keep them steady. Everyone's hands will shake to some degree, higher magnification exaggerates this. Also going for a lower magnification of say 7x or 8x will give a wider view and brighter image for your younger eyes! The binoculars will allow you to see some constellations as a whole entity ( if wide angle ) but nearly all binoculars don't have the magnification to clearly show distant planetary details on the likes of Jupiter or Saturn. But you will see Jupiter and its Moons, just not in glorious detail. Don't let this put you off. I think every telescope owner has one or more pairs of binoculars in their inventory. In mine you`ll see that I favour my 8x40, at present. Id say get either 10x50 or 7x50. Try some first, to see what their like at your local supplier. 

[relyksrc]

I wasn't expecting such good advice so quickly. I'm so happy it's not a lost cause! lol. I'll definitely take everyone's advice into consideration when making my decisions and purchases. It will probably be a bit of a slow start since money is a big issue, but that's okay!

I've been considering these:
http://www.amazon.ca/Celestron-71256-UpClose-10x50-Binocular/dp/B006ZN4TZS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407600231&sr=8-1&keywords=10x50+binoculars

Any opinions from people here? The reviews seem to be in favor for them.

@Charic: Yeah. Giving up when something doesn't work out right away is something I'm good at. I'll be sure to stick with it this time. I've never really seen anything except the moon and stars, so I'm looking forward to even seeing those up close, and anything else the universe is willing to show me at this point. Haha.

@Ronin: I'm in Ottawa, so not as bad as Toronto, but definitely still light polluted. So yes, southern Ontario.

 

[relyksrc]

I decided to order the Celestron 71256 UpClose G2 10x50 Porro Binoculars (amazing reviews), Turn Left at Orion, as well as a book called "The Constellations: Myths of the Stars" for my own personal interest off of Amazon. There's a few parks in my end of the city that are in residential areas, which I would presume to be better than downtown or something at night? Not so much for sky glow, but at least less streetlights, headlights, etc. Is that correct?

Also, slightly off topic, but related to general help: How do you position yourself under the sky for the first time? I know what the big dipper looks like, and obviously I can locate the moon on a clear night - are these good starting points?

I'm excited! They're estimating I'll get my items around September 10th-12th, which is okay for me when it should start getting a little bit cooler outside, which I prefer, and it should start getting dark a little bit earlier as time goes by. Usually they come a little before then. So it's a decent length of a wait, but worth it in my opinion.

I appreciate everyone's help!

[ronin]

Suggest you learn Casseiopia next, it is useful as a guide to others, Perseus, Andromeda, Cepheus.

The pointers point "up" to Polaris and "down" to Leo.

At this time of year above you will be Cygnus, then Lyra, then Hercules as you go clockwise.

[Charic]

I decided to order the Celestron 71256 UpClose G2 10x50 Porro Binoculars (amazing reviews), Turn Left at Orion, as well as a book called "The Constellations: Myths of the Stars" for my own personal interest off of Amazon. There's a few parks in my end of the city that are in residential areas, which I would presume to be better than downtown or something at night? Not so much for sky glow, but at least less streetlights, headlights, etc. Is that correct?

Also, slightly off topic, but related to general help: How do you position yourself under the sky for the first time? I know what the big dipper looks like, and obviously I can locate the moon on a clear night - are these good starting points?

I'm excited! They're estimating I'll get my items around September 10th-12th, which is okay for me when it should start getting a little bit cooler outside, which I prefer, and it should start getting dark a little bit earlier as time goes by. Usually they come a little before then. So it's a decent length of a wait, but worth it in my opinion.

I appreciate everyone's help!

Check #5 above and download Stellarium if you haven't already.  You say your Binoculars will arrive in September? There's plenty of time to get acquainted and set-up the program for your location. . Wiki help files to assist you on the web. 

[relyksrc]

Wow! Thank you so much for that. I'd never heard of Stellarium. I just downloaded it and it's amazing. I was able to match my city and time on it easily, and found a whole e-book style Adobe PDF file on how to operate it which I'm currently working through. This will be a great help before I go out there the first time I think.

I've been messing around with it for about an hour.  I found the place that says "Use light pollution from area database" or something, which I'd presume takes the current LP levels and matches them to what's outside. My problem, I did this, and most of the stars on Stellarium became unclickable... I checked "show constellation lines" and couldn't click the individual stars, though the lines appeared as they should.. many stars became invisble. This concerns me since if I can't even view them on a simulation, how would I ever view them in real life from the city? I also can't find anything on a Wiki file about this anywhere.

If I lower the LP on the program, it returns to normal and useable. Put LP back to what it said for my city, and the problem returns. What would fix this? Anything?

Other than the reality of the LP situation, I'm loving this program already. Lol.
 

[Charic]

.........area database is a new thing for me, as I've only just updated to v13. But I don't get the issues you mention. maybe reboot Stellarium, see if that fixes anything. One or two folk have mentioned an issue here and there, but differing to your problem. If still unsuccessful, try installing the previous edition 0.12.4 The 12 version is in 32 & 64bit variants, although 0.13.0 should work according to developers. never had a problem that I've noticed using 0.12.4

http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

[relyksrc]

I don't feel like it is a program issue - more the LP is accurate, and there's just simply a ton of light pollution in my area. It goes up to 8/9 on the database scale. So I'm curious if this will effect anything when I go outside for the first time, or if binoculars help cut through LP that makes stars invisible to the naked eye? When I view with these LP settings with the Ocular plugin, more stars are visible than without it.

[Charic]

......Not having the data option before only allowed me to set the light pollution. I think I was up to level 9 at one stage. Its so bright here during the summer nights. Best go outside, have a peek, then try to match what is best for your system. The program is good, but 100% accurate, I've never tested (there are others - but not tried any ) Also un-ticking Atmosphere brings all the stars into visibility. I bit of trial and error to you find the right set-up. I'm still learning some of its options, especially when they up-date?

Even with some LP the Binoculars will allow you to see more than the naked eye. Shouldn't be a problem.

[relyksrc]

Awesome, great. I know how to make them visible in the program. But since it's a simulation, I thought if that many disappeared on the program then that would be as many as I'd see with binoculars off-screen, in real life.

Definitely glad to hear that's not the case!!

[Charic]

There's plenty to discover with Stellarium, just keep at it. (I gotta go, just seen the time 0410BST) take care.

[relyksrc]

Take care! Thank you so much for all of your help. I really appreciate it.

[itmo]

try looking for the faintest star you can see with naked eye and try to find that star from stellarium and note it's magnitude. that will give you some kind of a reference how bad the LP actually is at your site. try to block all direct light from site using buildings and bushes etc. 

Stellarium also has a switch for "limiting magnitude " for stars, you can use that to tune the light pollution level to a similar one as your site. Basically light pollution will wash out galaxies first, then nebulas, then planetary nebulas, but then you will still have star clusters , double stars and planets to watch. And if you are desperate there's always moon and sun. And if they are blocked  there is often thunder or clouds to watch. or halos and rainbows. and if that doesnt work you can always shop for a new telescope while waiting for the weather to improve. =)

[Lee_P]

Hi Skyler,

I live in a city too, but have a balcony for observing. I find it very difficult to see any faint objects through the orange glow, but astrophotography and digital processing helps reveal what is hidden to the eye. I've been using a basic telescope for astrophotography for a few months, and am finding it a lot more rewarding than visual observing. Maybe something to bear in mind after you've got some experience of binocular astronomy? (For reference, a collection of my pics are here: 

)

 - Lee

[AndyWB]

Hi ya,

Right, observing in a town or city. I live pretty close to a large town (a city wannabe), and the light pollution is as bad as you get outside of London in this country.

Observing is possible, but hard, and some objects are rendered harder than others. As Ed says, first, you want to get out of or block direct light, if you can. Next, stick to brighter objects, if you can. Planets and the Moon are great, 'cos they're nice and bright, but it would get if that was all you looked at.

After those, I find that brighter Open Clusters work well. Emission nebulae are also good as a suitable filter can cut out a lot of the light pollution in the sky. I do find galaxies a pain, as there is nothing you can do to increase their contrast (filters don't help).

I'd also make an unusual suggestion - don't just get the maximum aperture possible. Aim for portability. A smaller scope that you do stand some chance of taking out into the countryside is probably better than a big scope that you can only use in town. My 10" scope isn't that much more capable than my 5" scope in town, and the 5" is probably better it if it's in the darkness of the countryside. Of course, if you took them both into the dark, the 10" blows the 5" away, but it's much harder to transport (I do drive, so less of a problem)