BST Explorer/Starguider

[Steve91]

Hi guys,

Just a quick one, whats the difference between a BST starguider and a BST explorer, if any?

Thanks

[Zuben Elgenubi]

They are the same EPs, just different branding.

[John]

The same eyepieces are available under a number of different brand names including Orion (USA) and Astro Tech who call the range the Paradigms. As it happens the BST Starguider / Explorer incarnations seem to be the lowest cost versions of the design

[ronin]

Exactly the same, there was a naming issue at some time and Explorer became Starguider.

[Steve91]

Thanks for clearing that up guys.

I have to admit, I'm a little confused by the whole BST brand completely. Who's eyepiece actually are they and is BST an actual company or is this just a name that has come about for them?

Also how come they only seem to be available from one retailer?

I understand that they get very good reviews and outperform for their price but I'm just curious to where they actually come from?

Thanks

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[John]

I think it's just a branding name. The eyepieces are made in China and the manufacturer will put the branding on them that the purchaser asks for, provided they buy enough volume. The big names such as Orion (USA) and Astro Tech may specify higher quality coatings or similar small improvements but on the other hand they may well be exactly the same and you are just paying a bit more for a "name".

[Steve91]

So we're saying that pretty much there's a factory somewhere out there producing a very high volume of the same eyepiece then companies are paying to have they're names put on them and distributed?

Do they actually have BST printed on them somewhere? Again I'm it questioning the quality or genuine ness of the retailer but where are they coming from ?

Or should I not ask these questions ?

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[John]

So we're saying that pretty much there's a factory somewhere out there producing a very high volume of the same eyepiece then companies are paying to have they're names put on them and distributed?....

Yes. Possibly more than one factory producing the same or similar designs too. It happens all the time with astro and many other types of equipment. Sometimes they offer a number of external body shape options with the same optics in them, just to make life a little more confusing.

It's rumoured that they have different qualities of outputs too, lets call them "A", "B" and "C". The big names who buy massive amounts get the "A" quality. The smaller names get the "B"'s and the "C"'s are sold at lower prices basically unbranded or with a "noname" brand. I don't know how much this really happens but I can see how it might work like that.

[Steve91]

OK that makes sense I guess. Regarding the starguider/explorer thing again, are they eyepieces going to be identical in both looks and optically other than the wording being different?

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[andrew63]

I am afraid to say the analogy of much of this stuff is like a supermarket conveyor belt - we are not talking of highly crafted scientific instruments here.  To take it a bit further, you have a vast vat of beans, fill the empty cans and put different labels on them !  

andrew

[Steve91]

I guess there's so many products (not just astronomy related) that are so similarly mass produced and labeled. I'm assuming that you only get the unique product with companies such as televue, vixen, takahashi etc?

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[ronin]

BST eyepieces are produced by BARSTA,  Barsta Eyepieces.

Basically Barsta = BarSTa, BST is simply a nice easy roll-off-the-tongue abbreviation.

As best I am aware noone else makesthe ones we call BST Expolorer/Starguiders.

BST do brand them for other people, Astro-Tech, Orion, TS and others, but other then the name on the outside they all come from the one place. If Alan bought them in big enough numbers they would put StL on the side at no cost - I asked Alan this once.

No idea who designed the Starguiders/Explorers but they did a good job and got it right for the price of the items.

If the cost bothers you by being low then there are several that get their own name on them and then ask twice the price, but you get the same eyepiece.

[Steve91]

BST eyepieces are produced by BARSTA, Barsta Eyepieces.

Basically Barsta = BarSTa, BST is simply a nice easy roll-off-the-tongue abbreviation.

As best I am aware noone else makesthe ones we call BST Expolorer/Starguiders.

BST do brand them for other people, Astro-Tech, Orion, TS and others, but other then the name on the outside they all come from the one place. If Alan bought them in big enough numbers they would put StL on the side at no cost - I asked Alan this once.

No idea who designed the Starguiders/Explorers but they did a good job and got it right for the price of the items.

If the cost bothers you by being low then there are several that get their own name on them and then ask twice the price, but you get the same eyepiece.

Thanks for the great response it's nice to clear it up. And interesting to see that there is a brand behind it all, I take it you've used the BST'S and I've heard nothing but good about them so maybe I will buy one and see what there all about.

Just one last question, are the explorers and starguider identical both optically and cosmetically? As if I were to collect the set it would be nice for them all to be the same

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[Mark in Macc]

I currently have 1 of each. The answer to your question is yes to the best of my knowledge.

[AlexB67]

Here is another variation on the theme,

http://www.green-witch.com/acatalog/olivon.html

though interestingly it has some small indentations which I can also spot on the astrotech paradigms.

Now for a little comparison, the 18mm paradigm is stated at 159 grams here

http://www.eyepiecesetc.com/ASTROTECH_PARADIGM_ED_1_25_60_DEG_EYEPIECE_18MM_p/3101180.htm

The 18mm BST starguider at 181 grams on STL.  There may be some errors/inconsistencies in the info on some sites.   

Exactly the same including coatings ? who knows, always a bit of a mystery to me the eyepiece world and what vendors are up to with some of these things. 

Where available they do tend to show the same arrangement of a 6/4 design.  Alan has more info when selling his goods and is the only one that gives exact weights for each one, design used etc.  Personally I'd buy from him, unless you can find out to the contrary that the other brands do indeed use a higher level of QA, coatings or something else. I could not find that info. 

If you stretch to the prices of the paradigms another heap of options open up too for similar money but  at 49 pounds the BST have a good spot right now seems to me. Great bang for the buck. 

A mini review based on my experiences with the 8mm:

Only the other night   I was looking at a glob for a good while, and used a 6,7,8mm eyepieces, a TV and pentax being the 6 and 7 ( premium eyepieces, 200+ pounds new) , but the BST did look to much out of place in performance on that target at all to me, though it was the least  preferred view to me  overall ( without honestly trying to be biased ) , but not by much at all, certainly not in proportion to the price tag. 

When you start looking for fine details on planets though the difference become more apparent with the 8mm I have, but again, still very respectable performance, and to be fair that is in in fast scope at f4.7.   I will say that with the caveat, it is not easy to compare different focal lengths, but coming from how easy is to get details and fine contrast features from the views. Considering the 8mm should be the sharpest, most crisp with lower mag, a pentax does do noticeably better in my scope in clarity/sharpness and fine contrast features in a planet like Jupiter when I used them side by side. There again, one pentax new will buy a whole set of BST starguiders.

Good luck

[ronin]

Thanks for the great response it's nice to clear it up. And interesting to see that there is a brand behind it all, I take it you've used the BST'S and I've heard nothing but good about them so maybe I will buy one and see what there all about.

Just one last question, are the explorers and starguider identical both optically and cosmetically? As if I were to collect the set it would be nice for them all to be the same

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Not 100% sure about the "cosmetics", for the simple reason i have a set (all 6) of Explorers with the different coloured rings and I have a Starguider. The Starguider and the Explorer of the same focal length have different coloured rings.

On mine I think the 5mm Starguider has the same ring colour as the 12mm Explorer.

No idea why this is, but it wasn't what I expected.

I know I have 2 with anodised silver rings and they are different focal lengths.

So if you want the "correct" colouring I suggest all Starguiders at this time.

For me it means I do not want to lose/damage one of the Explorers.

Alan was at IAS last year so if I go I will ask if he is there again. It was then that I found who made them.

Weight? Well the glass inside is fractionally different, if nothing else to get the different focal lengths. Spacers will likely be fractionally different, if they are weighted then different scales and what was weighed - the end caps can be on of off. Never checked if all the chrome inserts are the same or not. So enough items to account for several grams difference.

Have to admit I prefer the Explorer branding then the Starguider, and I suppose the TS branding of EDII is simpler and possibly, to me, nicer.

If you want to see pricing diferences:

SCS: Orion Epic EDII

StL: BST

Same eyepiece, just over 2x cost. :eek:

If you look through the Barsta eyepieces you will find the 70 degree one that is sold by Astro-Tech and also the "new" Celestron "chunky" 70 degree eyepiece.

[John]

If you look through the Barsta eyepieces you will find the 70 degree one that is sold by Astro-Tech and also the "new" Celestron "chunky" 70 degree eyepiece.

Looking through the list of astro products that Barsta produces it looks like they make most of the mid to low cost eyepieces that are sold under a host of different brands. They also seem to make things like the Seben Big Boss newtonian and other "gems"  

[cs1cjc]

The BST Explorer/Starguider/dual ED eyepieces were introduced first by Astronomics as the Paradigm range.  See: https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-paradigm-dual-ed-eyepieces_c52.aspx

It is possible that Roger Ceragioli was involved in the design. He certainly did the optical design for the Astro-Tech/Altair Astro/GSO coma corrector: https://www.astronomytechnologies.com/astro-tech-photo-visual-coma-corrector-field-flattener_p18124.aspx

Michail Bieler reported that Roger Ceragioli had been working on *two* lines of eyepieces for Astronomics here:  http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchive/showflat.php/Cat/0/Board/vendorann/Number/3494414/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

In contrast with some other eyepiece ranges, there seems to be a single source of manufacture, despite the multiple brandings available to the consumer.  Further the quality appears to be good, judging by the consistent reports from owners.

[Steve91]

Thanks for the amazing replies guys, this information doesn't seem to be readily available and it's nice to get a proper answer.

It did become apparent to me that not all the big brands such as celestron, orion etc had their own factory for producing eyepieces, obviously somebody makes them for them and that happens to be BST/Barsta. I guess it's just good that somebody has managed to make these "unbranded" eyepieces readily available at half the price of the branded version. These questions were pretty much the only thing stopping me purchasing a BST eyepiece but now I'm very interested

Does anybody happen to know how sky's the limit manages to source them? It doesn't change my opinion I'm just curious

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[cs1cjc]

I understand that Alan at Sky's the Limit imports them directly in batches from the far East.

[ronin]

Would be interesting to know if Alan has to place a minimum overall order, or if each item has a minimum order level - the 70 degree EP's look interesting  As in could he get a single set of the 70's or would he have to get 50 sets.

The other manufacturer that makes some interesting looking eyepieces are Barride: Barride Optical

Their 82 degree eyepiece looks useful.

[John]

The other manufacturer that makes some interesting looking eyepieces are Barride: Barride Optical

Their 82 degree eyepiece looks useful.

I reckon they are Meade 5K UWA / Maxvision with a slightly different body design.

[tttonyyy]

Bit of a bump to an old thread, but since it ranks well in google, I found out a little more about the BST design, which is shown on this page:

https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-paradigm-dual-ed-eyepieces_c52.aspx

It looks a bit like a take on the Nagler, which might explain why they are so good.

[John]

19 minutes ago, tttonyyy said:

Bit of a bump to an old thread, but since it ranks well in google, I found out a little more about the BST design, which is shown on this page:

https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-paradigm-dual-ed-eyepieces_c52.aspx

It looks a bit like a take on the Nagler, which might explain why they are so good.

But which Nagler ?. There are several different Nagler optical layouts.

 

[Louis D]

8 hours ago, John said:

But which Nagler ?. There are several different Nagler optical layouts.

Probably the Type 1 as seen here.  It also resembles the 20mm Pentax XW as seen here and here.