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Finally got my shortlist of Telescopes down to 4 - now which one ?


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I live in a moderate light pollution area, and for the past 6 months or so have been using my DSLR camera with an Astrotrac tracking system fitted to tripod and Astrotrac Wedge for night photography longer exposures. And a basic tripod setup for short length exposures/

I get more enjoyment out of taking a series of quick photographs up to about 20 second exposure dependent on which lens I use.

I've managed to get good shots of the Moon, and of the night sky generally but not the other planets as they are too small. I would also like to get closer up photos of the Moon and its craters.

The telescope I wanted therefore had to be good for Planetary and a small degree towards nebulae etc.

Budget of around £500 but that doesnt need to be fixed.

Mainly the scope will be used in my garden, but on occasion will want to transport it in my car approximately 10 miles to a good dark sky sight locally although the roads arent the smoothest in places.

As I have a history of back problems since I retired, portability and ease of assembly is important, so carrying weights and space taken have to be considered carefully.

Is a GoTo mount a good thing to have when Im operating in the garden, or is it just as easy to slew the scope round and select targets manually and compare to printed charts.

The short list I have narrowed down to is finally after much chopping and changing of my mind :

Skywatcher 200P with EQ5 mount  (appx £415)

Skywatcher 150P with optional Goto system  (£289 to £539)

Celestron Nexstar 127

Celestron Nexstar 130

What extras should I consider purchasing - filters, masks, powerpacks etc

Can anyone give me their opinions on the respective scopes inline with my circumstances, and if possible links to any photographs taken by them.

Thanks

Andrew

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I have a history of back problems since I retired

Would that not put the 200P on an EQ5 out of consideration ?

Goto is useful, it will point to things for you, and if you intend any imaging then you need motors for tracking anyway.

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That was what I was worrying about, I spoke with FLO and they reckon it probably weighs in at about 22 kilos assembled - but can be split down.

I dont know how long assembly would take for this. The weight isnt so much an issue in its individual components that worries me its more the bulk size.

Whichever I ultimately go for, must obviously be able to focus with a DSLR, as I discovered this afternoon when researching that some scopes have a problem.

If anyone wants to throw a last minute consideration into the pot I will be happy to receive information and feedback

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It was partially the weight but also the OTA will need to be lifted on to the mount and then fitted. I did my back in about 2 months ago - took 2 old bags of now hardened cement to dispose of, had the first smaller one and hoisted it in the skip mainly using my back, did the same with the second, but that was bigger. Felt a nice little ouch from my back, and paid the price for the nexr 5 days.

As for a DSLR look for PDS as in 150PDS, it is a dual speed focuser but also lower profile for AP.

Lots say DSLR attachment, which they can. But that is not DSLR attachment AND focus. Bit of a dirty trick, most assume that because you can attach a DSLR you can focus to it.

Suppose N Devon is too far to get to Astrofest on Feb 7+8.

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Feel free to ignore me because I'm totally biased but the 150PL (the longer focal length version of it's 150P brother) gives really good planetary and lunar views for it's size.

The EQ3-2 mount (same as the mount for a 150P) isn't the most stable mount in the world but it's pretty portable and lighter than the EQ5 if that's important. You can always weigh the tripod down in the field... (some people fill the tripod legs. I just put my power pack which is a few kilos and a brick on the accessory tray).

You can fit a DSLR to the scope when you take the eyepiece adapter out and it achieves focus without problem. 

On the minus side, not so good for DSOs but I've managed more than a few. The 150PDS would be better for DSO photography probably if that's you're thing.

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If you have a bit of back trouble I would recommend making weight and ease of use your main deciding factors. Also if it is too much rigmarole for you assembling every night then you are less likely to use it.

However, if you want a GOTO mount for imaging then you can get away with an ALT/AZ up to about 25 or 30 seconds if you know what you are doing, or if you are likely to want to go longer than this (30 seconds and upwards) then an EQ5 or HEQ5 is probably the minimum you will want for stability.

If it really is only going to be short exposures and lunar/planetary then you can get away with much lighter kit. Something like a ALT/AZ GOTO and a nice light Mak might do the job. 

Planets and lunar tend to use video instead of still frames though; the idea being you take a video at a reasonably high frame rate and stack the individual frames in software. This chooses the best bits for you and you get a sort of average of the sum quality of the frames.

There are many options to consider as you can see (and I've only scratched the surface!!!) so my recommendation would be hang in there, don't buy anything yet except this book:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

It is recommended to all would-be imagers on this forum and not just because it's written by one of the uber dudes who posts on here :) It is the best introduction to the ins and outs of the various forms of imaging and goes through which kit is best for different applications.

Well worth reading it a few times then coming back here to check out some ideas.

cheers and good luck with everything

Chris

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Thanks for the feedback guys, and I agree that book is excellent reading and helped me narrow options down considerably.

As I've got a Canon 5dMk3 and a Canon 1100d modded which I use, I dont really want to get a vidcam yet, as I know I should be able to get the photos I want with the DSLRs and using stacking.

Curiosity question here - how do you get the still images extracted from an AVI file or whatever format it is ?

Going to look into the various suggestions made so far, please all feel free to keep them coming.

The comment about ease of assembly and portability was very good as I bet there are lots of people who give up before they have almost even started.

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Looking at the 150PL sent me off into other reviews of Skywatchers where I read of 

"features a 1.25"/2" Dual-Speed 10:1 ratio focuser for enhanced focus control and a shorter tube length with the secondary mirror positioned closer to the primary mirror for more convenient prime-focus photography. "

Can someone explain the benefit of this - the shorter tube length from my back point of view seems appealing

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I live in a moderate light pollution area, and for the past 6 months or so have been using my DSLR camera with an Astrotrac tracking system fitted to tripod and Astrotrac Wedge for night photography longer exposures. And a basic tripod setup for short length exposures/

I get more enjoyment out of taking a series of quick photographs up to about 20 second exposure dependent on which lens I use.

I've managed to get good shots of the Moon, and of the night sky generally but not the other planets as they are too small. I would also like to get closer up photos of the Moon and its craters.

The telescope I wanted therefore had to be good for Planetary and a small degree towards nebulae etc.

Budget of around £500 but that doesnt need to be fixed.

Mainly the scope will be used in my garden, but on occasion will want to transport it in my car approximately 10 miles to a good dark sky sight locally although the roads arent the smoothest in places.

As I have a history of back problems since I retired, portability and ease of assembly is important, so carrying weights and space taken have to be considered carefully.

Is a GoTo mount a good thing to have when Im operating in the garden, or is it just as easy to slew the scope round and select targets manually and compare to printed charts.

The short list I have narrowed down to is finally after much chopping and changing of my mind :

Skywatcher 200P with EQ5 mount  (appx £415)

Skywatcher 150P with optional Goto system  (£289 to £539)

Celestron Nexstar 127

Celestron Nexstar 130

What extras should I consider purchasing - filters, masks, powerpacks etc

Can anyone give me their opinions on the respective scopes inline with my circumstances, and if possible links to any photographs taken by them.

Thanks

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Having looked at the choices of the scopes you have listed, they seem to be all over the place, I hope you don't mind me saying so.

1: Celestron 127 SLT, this is Mak Cassegrain with a F ratio of 11.9 and a focal length of 1500mm. Very good for planetary but hopeless for DSOs.

2: Celestron 130 SLT, this a classic fast Newtonian at F5 and 650mm of focal length, a good starter scope with the ability to gaze a lot of DSOs but hopeless with the planets because of the short FL. If this scope can come to focus with a DSLR then it makes a reasonable DSO imager with help of a coma corrector.

3: SW 200p and SW EQ5, classic Fast Newtonian @ F5 and an FL of 1000mm, very,good on the planets, with a 3~5X barlow,  and DSOs both imaging and observing but you really need a driven mount for this and as stated is a large heavy scope.

4: SW 150P, again a classic fast Newtonian @ F5 and 750mm of FL, fine for DSOs but rather limited for the planets unless you use a 4~5X barlow, a good DSO imager if iit can come to focus with a DSLR and you'd need a coma corrector for this.

Of all these the 200p on a driven mount is the closest you are going to get to an all purpose scope provided that you can handle the weight and setting up each  time you wish to use it, next down the line is 150p , I think the 127 is rather specialised and the 130 is just too small unless you just want to image DSOs in which case you'd need a proper guidable mount such an EQ5 PRO SynScan but that is another story.

Regards,

A.G

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Thanks for that AG - I arrived at the list by making notes of what people reviewed and rated elsewhere and ended up with those four.

Your explanation was just what I needed.

My leanings were towards the 150, but someone else mentioned a variation of that. So I feel we are a bit nearer possibly by eliminating the Celestrons.

What would be your own recommendation to consider inline with my requirement and budget

cheers

Andrew

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I just nipped upstairs and weighed the OTA on my digital scales and it's 6.1 kgs (that's with a 9x50 finder scope fitted which is bigger than the finder that comes as standard). 

To the best of my knowledge the 150PL doesn't have a dual speed focuser or 2" adapter unless they've upgraded the package since I bought mine.

I normally keep the mount with the tube rings and counter-weights attached in an outhouse and just lift that outside to my desired viewing spot in the garden. It doesn't feel bad to me but I don't have any back problems so I don't know if it would be suitable or not. I generally keep my OTA upstairs and it's easy enough to bring down. Takes about five minutes to get the mount out and leveled. Polar aligning, how long is a piece of string... depends how accurate you want to be.

Fitting the OTA to the tube rings takes a minute or so at best. Because it's a longer scope it does take a few goes to work out how to balance it properly on the mount. Not sure on the weight of the EQ3-2 mount itself - lots of places quote 16kg but I don't know if that's just the tripod or tripod and mount - I'm sure it doesn't include the counterweights.

Rob

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Thanks for that AG - I arrived at the list by making notes of what people reviewed and rated elsewhere and ended up with those four.

Your explanation was just what I needed.

My leanings were towards the 150, but someone else mentioned a variation of that. So I feel we are a bit nearer possibly by eliminating the Celestrons.

What would be your own recommendation to consider inline with my requirement and budget

cheers

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

If you have a desire for DSO imaging and that is the impression that I get, then I'd go for a 150 PDS and keep the DSLR, I have 3CCDs and I still keep the DSLR because of the size of the sensor. If you were going for a short, fast Apo then getting a cooled CCD would make sense, with the 150 you'd be at 750mm of FL and a CCD with a large enough chip to give you a decent FOV would be to say the least quite expensive, unless you  have something like a QHY8L in mind that has a DSLR size sensor and at £850.00 may not appear too expensive but that is a personal choice. As for the mount the choice is between an EQ5 PRO synscan or an HEQ5 pro, do not listen to the rubbish that you can not use EQ5 synscan for imaging, it is all to do with balance of the imaging igear, polar alignment and knowing the limit of the mount. I had an EQ5 PRO untill 3 months ago and I got just as good or better guiding than I get with HEQ5 that I have now, I have not noticed any improvements. The 150 PL is again a planetary scope, F8 and 1200mm of FL, very good for what it has been designed for but slow for imaging and I am not sure if the focuser has enough  inward travel to come to focus with a DSLR so perhaps other people could comment on that. Take your time and do a bit more research. I would also recommend downloading the New Astronomy press CCD calculator with the additinal  pictures and once oyu enter parameters for your scopes, cameras etc you can with a click of a button see tehplanets and teh DSOs in the simulated FOV, it is an eye opener.

Regards,

A.G

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Thanks for the feedback guys, and I agree that book is excellent reading and helped me narrow options down considerably.

As I've got a Canon 5dMk3 and a Canon 1100d modded which I use, I dont really want to get a vidcam yet, as I know I should be able to get the photos I want with the DSLRs and using stacking.

Curiosity question here - how do you get the still images extracted from an AVI file or whatever format it is ?

Going to look into the various suggestions made so far, please all feel free to keep them coming.

The comment about ease of assembly and portability was very good as I bet there are lots of people who give up before they have almost even started.

There is some software called "PIPP" that extracts files from movie mode and allows you to crop images prior to "registax"

Just a thought whats the load capacity of the Astrotrack could it handle a small MAK for planets and an ED80 for DSO.

Alan

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Not sure what your back problems are but they could cause difficulties for you in regard of viewing positions, especially with initial alignment.  One reason why I switched to an SCT from a Newtonian 130 f/6.9.   And for planetary imaging a longer focal length would be desirable.  I would strongly recommend that you go to a Star Party and/or contact your nearest Astronomical Society, talk to them and look at their scopes.

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Hi Andrew,

If you have a desire for DSO imaging and that is the impression that I get, then I'd go for a 150 PDS and keep the DSLR, I have 3CCDs and I still keep the DSLR because of the size of the sensor. If you were going for a short, fast Apo then getting a cooled CCD would make sense, with the 150 you'd be at 750mm of FL and a CCD with a large enough chip to give you a decent FOV would be to say the least quite expensive, unless you  have something like a QHY8L in mind that has a DSLR size sensor and at £850.00 may not appear too expensive but that is a personal choice. As for the mount the choice is between an EQ5 PRO synscan or an HEQ5 pro, do not listen to the rubbish that you can not use EQ5 synscan for imaging, it is all to do with balance of the imaging igear, polar alignment and knowing the limit of the mount. I had an EQ5 PRO untill 3 months ago and I got just as good or better guiding than I get with HEQ5 that I have now, I have not noticed any improvements. The 150 PL is again a planetary scope, F8 and 1200mm of FL, very good for what it has been designed for but slow for imaging and I am not sure if the focuser has enough  inward travel to come to focus with a DSLR so perhaps other people could comment on that. Take your time and do a bit more research. I would also recommend downloading the New Astronomy press CCD calculator with the additinal  pictures and once oyu enter parameters for your scopes, cameras etc you can with a click of a button see tehplanets and teh DSOs in the simulated FOV, it is an eye opener.

Regards,

A.G

Hi again, its one of those scenarios where I want to get decent planet shots as they are nearer than far off worlds, then in time to have the challenge of more deep space places. Meantimes I know I can get some decent "galaxy" type photos quite easily with either camera I have using the Astrotrac system. Not heard of that calculator before will go looking for that

cheers Andrew

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There is some software called "PIPP" that extracts files from movie mode and allows you to crop images prior to "registax"

Just a thought whats the load capacity of the Astrotrack could it handle a small MAK for planets and an ED80 for DSO.

Alan

Not sure what the capacity is for this, but would the astrotrac wedge which is quite a heavy unit be any use in a setup ?

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Not sure what the capacity is for this, but would the astrotrac wedge which is quite a heavy unit be any use in a setup ?

Ive seen pictures of the astrotrack with large 5" refractors on them but realstically im sure people have used small scopes but there are plenty of people on here with that mount so someone may confirm.

Alan

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If you're happy sticking with your current Astrotrac and camera for deep-sky imaging, and using your new scope for visual observing and planetary imaging, then the Celestron Nexstar 127 SLT seems like an option to me. A lighter setup than an equatorial mount, an eyepiece position that doesn't move around loads, and I believe Maks and SCTs don't have any trouble focusing cameras for imaging.

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Interesting topic.My two cents....

I use a 150/750 newton on a cg5 (similar to eq5) and I  like the portability, the fact I can add a camera and guidescope and still take OK photographs. However, I always wonder what the view would be like using a 200. Most people here have the 200's for life as it seems, so that would be your best bet. The mount, if you're going into serious photography, is never good enough anyway, so I shouldn't worry about it, you're gonna want a heq6 in the future probably.

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