KOWA 10x50 Any advice?

[martbass]

Hi all

I have been reading through the forum recently, looking for info on binoculars as I'm about to purchase and would appreciate any advice on these:

http://www.binostore.com/en/binoculars/classics/binocular-10x50-roof-prism/?reffr=FRGL&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=catalog&ifrom=GB&utm_campaign=Froogle-GB&gclid=CIWivYX9u7sCFSTItAod33kARA

I want binoculars for general use but have always had a little interest in a bit of star / moon gazing having had my fathers old Boots Pacer bins since childhood, which now had a bump and are basically useless.

Now I'm an older fella and thought to spend a 'reasonable' amount on bins and think this will be a one time purchase.

I suspect if the Kowas prove to give superior views to my old bins,  I may end up using them more for stargazing than watching birds an my walks!

Would these be a good choice or would there be something better in the price range?

Also, there is a 12x50 for a little more and not sure if the extra will prove 'better'

Thanks in advance for any advice........

[NGC 1502]

Hi and welcome to SGL.

The bins in your link tick a lot of boxes, including good eyerelief, handy for a comfortable view, more especially if you wear glasses.

Personally I'd stick with those 10 x 50s for extended hand held use, rather than the 12 x 50s you also mention, but that's personal opinion, having tried more powerful bins.

Larger bins are good, but work best on a mount, so less 'grab & go'  for spontaneous viewing, ok if you don't mind a bit of set up time.

Cannot comment on just how good those Kowa bins are, but the specs do sound nice.

The William Optics 10 x 50s from SGLs sponsor are also very well thought of - http://www.firstlightoptics.com/william-optics-binoculars.html

All the best with your decision.

Edit - just remembered that the William Optics bins in my link have individual eyepiece adjustment (rather than centre focus) so great for astronomy as it's more rugged, less good for general use where you need to re-focus for different distances.

Regards, Ed.

[martbass]

Thank you Ed for such a swift response.

I've read many of the 'which is best for ££' etc on the forum and as people have said before, it can become really difficult to decide as there is a mind boggling choice of porro / roof - magnification - brand name discussions out there!

I'm of the opinion that you generally get what you pay for up to a certain price range and  as this (hopefully) will be a one time purchase, don't want to make the  mistake of buying too cheap and regretting and hoped my budget £250 - 300  will be enough to satisfy for years to come.

There's quite a lot of  corporate / shop  reviews of the Kowa brand but little for astro / real users on forums etc. which is why I posted hoping that someone actually uses them and could rate from experience.

My choice isn't strictly limited to roof prism but I have to say that after years of the old klunkers I have used, the more compact design of the roofs just seem neater / less cumbersome.

Quality of the Kowa optics and spec aside, I dont need 'fashion' bins but they do look quite smart and seem to appeal as a more modern looking pair so to speak if that makes sense.

I'm happy to go for substance over style.

I dont have any shop that close that have a good range to try out so would have to purchase online.

I've read that cheaper roof prisms suffer somewhat at the 'budget' level, is  there any reason roof prisms would lose out to porro at this price range?

Thanks again

[NGC 1502]

Quote - " I've read that cheaper roof prisms suffer somewhat at the 'budget' level, is there any reason roof prisms would lose out to porro at this price range? "

Hmm.........there used to be the often held view that porro was better than roof prisms for astronomy, but I'm not at all sure if that still holds, any one else care to comment please ?

Agree about the mind boggling choice, seems to apply to everything we buy, from dog food to astro kit 

Agree also on 'you get what you pay for'  although I've had some seriously good kit second hand, and some real 'turkeys' as well................

I'd have thought that your price range would get a 'buy it once' purchase, noticeably better than entry level.  Above your price range probably the law of diminishing returns, and you'd be scared to use 'em.....

Hopefully someone on here that owns or has used the Kowa bins can help with advice ?

Regards, Ed.

[BinocularSky]

RE Kowa: Like all brands, the quality varies considerably. The Kowa Highlander is very highly regarded. It tends to be a brand that has a foothold in Italy (where, indeed, the link you posted is based), so maybe check out the Italian forums for reviews , etc. Binomania would be as good a place as any to start.

RE Porro/roof: Roof prisms have to be made to much higher tolerances than Porros, so tend to be more expensive for similar optical quality. However, the difference seems to be diminishing. Ultimately, binoculars are very personal things, so it's probably best to try a few and see what suits you.

You said you're an "older fella": all relative, but I am finding in my 64th year that 10x is starting to get tricky to hand-hold as steadily as I would like and am considering "downgrading" to 8x or even 7x. The upside of that sort of downgrading is that they tend to be cheaper, so you can get better quality for the same outlay.

[martbass]

Thanks Steve,

I realise that £300 or so is not particularly high end but its still a lot of money and your comment that  ''Like all brands, the quality varies considerably'' worries me a little.

I would have thought at that kind money, varying quality wouldn't be an issue.

I'm scratching my head now but determined not to up my budget!

Also didn't realise 'Binostore' was Italian based.....it looked UK to me.

I guess I better look around at established uk sites, simply for ease of contact should I have any problems.......

[martbass]

Anyone have recommendations for another brand of 10x50 in the £250 to 300 mark ?

[Nakedgun]

martbass,

Kowa is a Japanese optics manufacturer, and having owned, and used various Kowa models over the last 15 years I can recommend them. Unlike the current Genesis, Highlander, and BD series, the new SV and YF models are produced in China to offer a lower price point. I do own the YF model, and based on its use, should think you can purchase the SV without reservation. 

[NGC 1502]

Thanks Steve,

I realise that £300 or so is not particularly high end but its still a lot of money and your comment that  ''Like all brands, the quality varies considerably'' worries me a little.

I would have thought at that kind money, varying quality wouldn't be an issue.

I'm scratching my head now but determined not to up my budget!

Also didn't realise 'Binostore' was Italian based.....it looked UK to me.

I guess I better look around at established uk sites, simply for ease of contact should I have any problems.......

Getting a 'lemon' is a worry for all of us, whatever we buy or pay.  

I do think that paying more considerably ups the odds of a good purchase, even if it doesn't guarantee it, so for that reason I'd buy from a reliable source that actually understands what they are selling. If there are problems, they will listen and sort it.

I purchased binoculars once that were obviously out of collimation. The seller thought I was trying it on, and didn't understand the term collimation.

Feedback on forums like this is a good advert if customers get a fair deal, and a bad deal will lose them business, in today's highly competitive market, you cannot afford a bad reputation.

There are several UK based astro kit suppliers that fall into the "we know what we are selling and will sort it if you have a genuine problem" category.  I'd pick out FLO, Greenwitch, Telescope House, as being in that category, but I'm quite sure there are others.

Regards, Ed.

[ollypenrice]

I'm sixty and am not gettng on with 10x as well as I used to. I greatly prefer 8x now. I use 8x42 Leicas, expensive even second hand as mine were. Whatever make you go for I'd be sure to try 8x and 10x before deciding. If you go for 8x there is really not much point in going for 50mm because I doubt that you'll find them any brighter. The larger exit pupil probably won't get into your eye and you end up paying more for more weight that hampers use.

I did use some Kowa 8X42 a few years ago. They were very nice but I don't know the ones in your link.

Olly 

[BinocularSky]

Thanks Steve,

I realise that £300 or so is not particularly high end but its still a lot of money and your comment that  ''Like all brands, the quality varies considerably'' worries me a little.

I would have thought at that kind money, varying quality wouldn't be an issue.

Yes, it is a lot of money, but if you want to buy at a level where varying quality isn't an issue, you need to double it and look at Fujinon, Docter, Leica or Swarovski. (The Swarovski 10x50 EL is about £1900, and it is a stunning binocular -- best 10x50 I've ever used, but way out of my budget.) But do note what Olly has said about 8x vs 10x -- and 8x42 has less glass than a 10x50, so better quality for similar outlay.

I guess I better look around at established uk sites, simply for ease of contact should I have any problems.......

Doesn't necessarily follow, I regret to say. Check out the Supplier Reviews forum and compare experiences with (say) Scopes'n'Skies (UK) and Teleskop Service (Germany).

[martbass]

Thanks for all the help.

When I said I'm now an older fella, it was relative to my mention of childhood......I'm 45.

Thanks for the nod to 'Teleskop service' just looked and the Kowa is another £20 cheaper coming in at £240 so is becoming very tempting.

However, I have continued reading threads and have found very favourable opinions on these  :

Hawke ProStalk Hunter ED 10x56

Barr & Stroud Savannah ED 10x56

Both seem essentially the same but with £100 difference in the price!

Now its becoming a real Headache to decide!!

[NGC 1502]

You are getting into "paralysis by analysis" been there done that   and will probably do a repeat performance sometime..............

I'd avoid online sellers that don't have the first clue what they are selling and if you hit problems won't even understand the issue.

I do think that if you can visit a dealer that has stock, who understands binoculars, can offer genuine advice, and has somewhere to try the bins, will be worth the effort and probably higher price.

All the best with your decision, Ed.

[martbass]

Thanks for all the advice.

I went into my local Jessops yesterday to have a look.....hardly any choice in there but I did manage to try these:  Nikon Prostaff 7 10x42    £230

I instantly noticed the amazing difference in the view / optics quality compared to the old Boots bins I've been using for years, though they didnt feel 'right' in the comfort department.

Now I realise that the price level of these or something similar will probably be enough to keep my happy so I'm getting there I think.

What difference will a 10x50 make to the image?

[NGC 1502]

Thanks for all the advice.

I went into my local Jessops yesterday to have a look.....hardly any choice in there but I did manage to try these:  Nikon Prostaff 7 10x42    £230

I instantly noticed the amazing difference in the view / optics quality compared to the old Boots bins I've been using for years, though they didnt feel 'right' in the comfort department.

Now I realise that the price level of these or something similar will probably be enough to keep my happy so I'm getting there I think.

What difference will a 10x50 make to the image?

If you are comparing 10x50 with 10x42, assuming the same optical & mechanical quality,  the difference will be with size of exit pupil and image brightness. In theory, the 10x50 should have a 5mm exit pupil ( 50 / 10 = 5 ) and the 10x42 a 4.2mm exit pupil ( 42 / 10 = 4.2 ).   But that is theoretical, and not all binos deliver the theory due to smaller than necessary prisms etc etc, more of a problem with cheaper bins and hopefully less of a problem if you pay more.

If used during the day, the image brightness will probably appear the same, because your pupils will likely be smaller due to the daylight, and not all of the column of light exiting the eyepiece can enter your eye.

If used at night the 10x50s should show a bit brighter image, and slightly fainter stars because your pupils should be dilated and allow the 5mm exit pupil to enter your eye.

And that's assuming your pupils dilate to 5mm in dim light.  Younger folks pupils can dilate to around 7mm and typically that gets less as we age, it's one reason why elderly folk see less well in the dark.

Not really a big difference between the two bins in practice, and other factors could sway you one way or another, like the comfort you mention. If you could work out what comfort problem you felt with the 10x42 you tried, that could help your decision - was the eyerelief a bit tight ?

Not an easy decision I know. I still use my 1970s Asahi Pentax 10x50s because I like them so much.  I even spent £50 about six years ago to have them profesionally cleaned & collimated, rather than put the money towards new ones.

Hope you find something that suits you, Ed.

[Coco]

My wife’s buying me some Leica Trinovids for my 50th , they are on sale at £899 at the moment, was going to get 10x42's but have changed my mind and will be getting 8x42 now..

I believe that they suffer a bit at the edges if the bird forums are to be believed so astro work may disappoint, apparently the Swarovski Swarovision have the flattest field but at twice the price of the Trinovids I’ll pass, beside she might want something in return like a new kitchen