New scope - SCT/Mak, Dobsonian or both?

[Gr1mb0]

Hi all. I'm looking for some advice please. I'm looking to buy my first 'proper' scope, but despite having done lots of research here and elsewhere, I am totally split on which way to go.

I'd like to get a really easy to use scope, which can easily set up and use on impulse in the back garden to look at the moon, planet and other bright objects with the kids - I live in a small town with a fair amount of light pollution, so I expect to struggle to see DSOs of any kind. Ease of use suggests a Dobsonian from what I've read. I 've been using a 114mm Meade reflector on an EQ mount in the garden, but find it too slow to set up and use for when I have a quick 30mins spare.

On the other hand, viewing from the garden is limited by trees/houses as well as light - but I live on the edge of the New Forest, so like the idea of packing up the scope in the car and going somewhere dark to see more... Suggesting an SCT/Mak eg. Celestron Nexstar 6SE.

My budget is about £1000 - so should I go for max bang for buck with a large (and largely immovable) Dob, buy a decent SCT such as the 6SE plus a couple of extra lenses/accessories - or go for the basic SCT kit for mobility and look to pick up a smallish second hand Dob for use at home?

I'm hoping I can get some reasonable starter kit for this budget - but am clueless on the best way to spend it! Thanks in advance for all your thoughts and suggestions.

[JamesF]

I think there's a lot to be said for a GOTO scope when children are involved.  They're not great at being patient whilst you try to star-hop to some hard-to-find target.

There's always the possibility of a GOTO dob, of course.  Something like the 200P flextube GOTO (or perhaps larger if you go second hand).  Even the 250P flextube is not too bad for transporting in a car and I think either would give the 6SE a fair run for its money.

James

[nmoushon]

I'll agree with James. Though GOTO requires a bit extra time setting up and getting use to the setting up. But once you get it down you can be up a viewing in about 10-15min. And once you have GOTO you are saving time by not having to star hop. I think you'll actually get more time observing objects this way. Not saying star hopping is bad or boring. It can be quit fun and a good challenge, if you're into that kind of thing. But like James suggested when you have kids or guests over that you want to share the view with GOTO is a real plus. You also don't have to worry about nudging the scope in between people looking as it tracks the objects. Then when its just you and you have time you can just keep the GOTO off and star hop like it was never even there. Or keep it on and just not use it and this will allow the mount to still track it so you can take looooong good looks and not have to think about keeping in it view.

Both types of scopes you will get good views outs of. Obviously you'll get more aperture per dollar with the Dob. With your budget you'll be able to get both in a car fairly easy.

[NGC 1502]

Actually I think that star hopping is faster than using a go-to, especially for most of the popular targets, solar system and deep sky.  Set up is faster too, my Dob tube goes on the mount in a jiffy.

But a snag is showing objects to other people. If they are not used to hand tracking, it's a bit of a pain. It's not really possible to teach each new viewer how to track.  At low to medium power, not too bad, I put the object to one side of the field of view, so as it drifts across they get the max time to see it.  It's at higher power, above 120 / 130x that it's a bit of a hassle, it works, but not ideal.  That's when a tracking scope works much better.

But so much of my club's scheduled public viewing is clouded out, that I own what suits me, and live with the downside for our public sessions.  I'm often given NGC 457 (Caldwell 13) the 'ET' cluster at my club's public events, it looks good at around 70 - 80x and it's in the northern part of sky where apparent sky movement is less, so it works quite well.

There are no children in the house either, my wife is an occasional viewer through my scopes, but she understands that viewing time can be limited.

For regular public or children's viewing, what I own is not ideal, so yet another factor to consider when deciding a purchase.

Regards, Ed.

[ronin]

Search round for the clubs in your area and pay a visit to one or two and see what is there and talk to the people. Simply because there are reasons both for and against every type of system out there and seeing them in use is a great help.

Should be a few clubs holding events for Star Gazing Live around Jan 7,8,9 but also over the following weekend or two.

First start would be fedastro.org.uk and have a look at Members under Dorset and any other county that you can reach easily. There may be a large club just over the boarder of a neighbouring county.

[Gr1mb0]

Thanks for the advice all. GOTO is now definitely on my list - I didn't know you could get Dobs with this feature - any recommendations?

I will try to find a club/society - but by definition, won't they all be using scopes optimised for portability?

[JamesF]

Thanks for the advice all. GOTO is now definitely on my list - I didn't know you could get Dobs with this feature - any recommendations?

I will try to find a club/society - but by definition, won't they all be using scopes optimised for portability?

Different people have different ideas about what's "portable"  It seems to vary from "can be carried on one's person" to "fits on a trailer" or even "is built onto a trailer".

Perhaps the obvious choices for a GOTO dob are the Skywatcher 200P and 250P flextubes:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-flextube-goto.html

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-250px-flextube-goto.html

I have a 250P flextube OTA on a non-tracking dob base that I made myself.  It's large, but not so large that it wouldn't fit in most cars without much difficulty.  With the trusses collapsed the tube is probably about three and a half feet tall.  Perhaps not everyone would describe it as "light" though  If you did want to take it elsewhere the 200P might be an easier choice (and leave more cash left over for a power tank, telrad, collimation tool and other accessories).

James

[Liquid360]

I think many people don't give portability enough consideration. I've got a 10"SCT. I wish I'd gotten an 8 or even 6.

- Nate

Birmingham, AL

[happy-kat]

If you only have like 30 minutes to go out and observe then a scope that takes ages to cool down may not be ideal?

Someone i read a few days ago said they left their mak a couple hours.

Not something I know about as only a beginner.

[baggywrinkle]

Even with a GOTO mount the Skywathcer Dobs I beleive still allow push to as well, which must be the best of both worlds.

[brantuk]

I'm not so sure there is such a thing as a "quick half hour in the garden" when you have some spare time. Telescopes of most types usually take at least half an hour to cool down and need setting up in advance of a session. It's only my opinion but you'd be well advised to plan at least a couple of hours for a short session.

A small Sct on a goto mount is a completely different animal to a Newtonian scope on a Dobsonian base. Sct's usually have a long focal length achieved by folding the light path up and down the tube before delivery through the rear to a diagonal and eyepiece. They are very sharp and contrasty when looking at planets - very useful for imaging - but not as good at dso's.

For dso's the dobsonian is the clear winner with it's larger aperture and light gathering ability - particularly usefully for eeking out detail on faint fuzzies. Dobs also make a good account of themselves on planets. So I would suggest thinking a little more about "purpose" when buying a scope - you can always get the size and suitability for other issues like weight, portability, goto, children, etc with most types of scope.

Hope that helps

[nicks90]

I'm not so sure there is such a thing as a "quick half hour in the garden" when you have some spare time.

agreed,

however........ a nice sized frac on a manual alt/az mount can fit this description - to an extent.

no cool down time, plonk it down and start pointing.

would a Skywatcher Startravel 150 on an a skywatcher AZ4 mount not fit this bill? No cool down time, point the mount north and level it and with a decent low mag widefield ep and the 1deg marks on the mount and stellarium, its almost goto.

just plugged the numbers in to stellarium ocular view with a 32mm 82deg ep and it gives a 3.5deg field of view. should be enough to find pretty much everything open to a 150mm aperture using the mount scales if you get the mount set right.

[Schorhr]

The Problem with goto telescopes is that they are quite expensive, so Most money is spend for the Electronics. A 8" Shows the Most for deep sky...

But still, the smaller telescopes are nice fore Grab and go.

I have the Heritage 130 AND the Nexstar slt goto mount now for Video astronomy. Visually the dobsonian mount is quicker to use. Grab, go, place, view.

Heritage 130p for the kids + Nexstar SLT Mount (200€/168£ here) + 10" dobsonian for the back yard or car trips (and Telrad+maps)...could be One approach.

Regarding portability I think I have other criteria ;-) Backpackable or bust!

[Gr1mb0]

Thanks everyone for your advice - much food for thought here! 

I really like the look of the GoTo Dobsonians in the links in JamesF's post,  but I also need to think about the comments on what is truly portable as I really can't see a lot of sky from my garden e.g. I could get the 8" Dob into the car, but then how far into the New Forest could I carry it (very close to wherever I park the car is my guess), and then am I likely to find somewhere level enough for the Dob base vs. adjustable legs on a tripod. Schorhr's also planted a seed in my mind about backpackable scopes.

My next step will defintely be to look for a local club night to go and see some different types of scope in action.

[itmo]

an 8 inch dob is "portable" , 10 inch starts to be "luggable" 12 inch is "barely movable". Carrying a 12 inch tube is like carrying a golden retriever, 8 inch is like a baby, only a bit longer and hollower  

Save atleast a third of your budget for accessories like good eyepieces,collimators, etc. unless you are planning to spend 1000 on a telescope and then start spending more for accessories. A good eyepiece might 

cost 50-100 (or more) euros , but it will make your scope feel 2 inches bigger. Beware of aperture fever, it is a simple disease to treat but medicine gets more and more expensive as the disease progresses  

[LeeWilky]

As has already been said a Dobsonian definately sounds like what your after.  Easy to transport and quick to set up.

If you go for the 8 inch skywatcher dob you will find lots of money left over from £1000 too