Hello from a complete Noob and a few questions

[Del Boy]

Hello  Everyone. This is my first ever post as Im completely new to astronomy and have only come across this site in the last few days. Its full of wonderful information but I have a few questions of my own and really need some advice and/or tips. 

Firstly let me fill you in a little bit about my journey so far.

About a year ago i decided I wanted to get a telescope as I've always been into astronomy but never done anything practical about it, except watch endless amount of documentaries about the universe. I didn't have a clue what I was doing and lacking patience I purchased whatever came up first on Amazon that had good customer reviews and was in my price range (£100-£150).  I ended up with the Celestron 130EQ. I couldn't wait for it to arrive and as soon as it did I had it set up in minutes (not realising the tube was the wrong way round!) and ready to go. All that got in my way now was the clouds. Which they did for what seemed like forever! Anyways, on my first clear night I excitedly picked up my scope, plonked it outside and aimed at the moon. As big as a target it is it still took me a while but I had it none the less and immediately was in awe of it. So i watched it gradually pass for a while and then decided to look at something else. I picked out the brightest star I could find and tried aimlessly to get it in my sights. Now, at the time i didn't know that the finder scope on the EQ130 was utterly hopeless as you may or may not know, but this being my first scope and not knowing anything about the matter I thought that this was a standard on all scopes and that im probably doing something wrong and that you needed some knowhow of scopes and alignments to see anything other then the moon. Feeling frustrated and some one dampened I lugged the scope back indoors and left it in the corner where it sat for over a year. All that money just to look at the moon i thought.

So we skip forward to today. My passion for the stars has flared up again but this time i wanted to do things properly. First I ordered some 25x70 binoculars. This seemed like a logical first step. As soon as I used them and saw hundreds and hundreds of stars which seemed not visible to the naked eye I immediately wanted more! Then soon after when I spotted Jupiters moons I knew only a telescope would do the job but the memory of my scope experience still haunted me. None the less i got online and started looking again. The first thing that grabbed my attention was the GOTO scopes. 'BRILLIANT!' i thought. No need for finder scopes or frantic pointing aimlessly trying to hit something. Star maps and alike intimidated me and with this I could just set up, press a few buttons and then enjoy view. Then I saw the price tag. OUCH. It still didn't put me off wanting one but i thought i better research them a little first before I splash out a few hundred quid. So after a while i came to the realisation that probably two thirds or maybe even more of the money you spend on a GOTO is just for the motorised mount and computer. This seemed ridiculous to me and I started thinking that surely you dont NEED a motorised mount or computer as obviously people had been stargazing and documenting stars for hundreds of years without the aid of electronics. That and for the same price you could probably buy a much better scope. After a bit of forum hoping and looking up general information to help me when it comes to scopes and astronomy it soon became apparent that with the aid of a good finder scope things would be a lot easier then how i imagined it first. I picked up a Telrad, stuck it to my celestron and was amazed of how easy it was to set up and how accurate it makes pointing the scope. Im still yet to have a clear night to fully utilise my scope but i do know now that I want a completely different scope having researched them a little and wanting something that will suit my needs and last a bit longer without the need of feeling i should upgrade.

So, my choice, after a lot of deliberation is the Skywatcher 250PX. This may seem like overkill to a newbie but I don't plan on lugging it very far and I suffer from some, but not a lot of light pollution round here. Everything just seemed to tick the right boxes. So my questions (finally) is

1) Do you recommend that scope? If not what alternatives would you suggest?

2) Would the lenses that are supplied with the scope do it justice or would you recommend something else?

and 3) Whats the best way of manually finding stars with a DOB when you have little experience

I hope my story hasn't bored you and thanks in advance to anybody who stuck with me and is kind enough to give me some advice. 

[jonathan]

If you mean this one - http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-250px-dobsonian.html then I'm sure many would agree with me that it will be a fine scope, probably perfectly usable for you with some mild light pollution.  You could have plenty of fun with a 150P or 200P as well, just depends how much you want to lug out each night and what you want to look at.  The bigger the scope, generally the higher the magnification potential, but wide-field views (many star clusters and some nebula) don't need high magnification but may benefit from the larger scope's light gathering capacity, it's then down to which eyepieces you use.

The standard kit Skywatcher eyepieces are nothing special, if you want to get the most out of the scope, even with some light pollution, spending between £50 - £100 per eyepiece should get you started off on the right foot.  You should aim to own three eyepieces - a high magnification, wide field, and perhaps extra wide field or one in-between your high magnification and wide-field (for those nights when the seeing isn't good enough for the high magnification).

10mm, 25mm, and maybe 17mm or 32mm are common.  It is a fast scope at f4.7 so you might do with a 5mm for your high magnification eyepiece and then look to get 12mm and 25mm (ish).  There are several well-known eyepiece brands to choose from, personally I think the Celestron X-Cel range are a pretty decent starting point - not the best eyepieces out there but good solid performers for the price.

As for finding stars with a dob, your Telrad is your best friend!  You may like to fit this and a 6x30 or even 8x50 finder scope, as you have learned if you invest wisely in the finder scope it can make a big difference - right-angle corrected finder scopes are easier to use than straight-through ones, and if you can rotate the eyepiece for comfort it's even better.  For me this has to be the ultimate finder - http://www.altairastro.com/product.php?productid=16335  It is like a miniature scope in itself, variable illuminated cross-hairs, changeable eyepiece with focuser; what more could anyone want from a finder scope?  Worth the money if you can afford it.  I'd say stick with the supplied finder scope and add your Telrad a few inches around the tube.

[Del Boy]

Thats exactly the scope I was looking at and funnily enough it was from that exact site I was planning on purchasing! The finder scope you linked looked very exciting tho I think Ill see how the supplied one works first. For finding where objects are located tho what method do you use? Maps, Apps or neither?

[andyman]

The 250px was my first scope and didnt regret it one bit and it is not called the goldilocks of scope for nothing

Not too big not too small easy to store and will give you excellent views.Great choice of scope you will love it

[jonathan]

Ah well, knowing where to look is different to actually finding things.  I would recommend the BBC Sky At Night website or magazine http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mk7h  I have always found their guides to be well written and easy to follow.  A popular book is Turn Left At Orion, though the items listed do get a bit samey after the fourth globular cluster in a row.

There's a nice big hardback book which may still be doing the rounds in Bookscene or The Works, The Stargazers Handbook.  It has a lot of information and some really nice full colour plates; it's more of a book about constellations than what's good to see or how to find them, but is a good read / reference none the less and may give you some ideas of what to look for.

When I was first starting out, before I owned a scope, I used my SkyScout to look at Tonight's Highlights.  I've also made good use of Star Walk on the iPad, although I don't like using it because even with Star Walk in 'night mode' the iPad always manages to ruin my night-adjusted eyesight (the iPad lock screen doesn't go into night mode).

[Charic]

Del Boy........Hi...........same site, and nothing wrong with this telescope either. http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html  both telescopes will provide the same eyepieces, so you will eventually want to buy more, but their price difference is to be noted.  8" most popular for many reasons.

Edit* 250PX Pyrex ( so you can cook your eggs in it?  Pyrex is actually less prone to warping during temperature changes, so unless you live in the desert, is that really required. The focal length is also the same. but the focal ratio lower than  a 200P. therefore requiring the possibility of more expensive lenses that work better in "faster scopes"?

[andyman]

The stock eyepieces are usable the 25mm better than the 10mm.Also theres stellarium which is a free app followed by a telrad finder scope makes finding objects much easier

[Astro Imp]

You won't go far wrong with either of the scopes mentioned above.

Just a quick tip, one of the best accessories I bought is a 4" riser for the Telrad, really makes it more use friendly.

[andyman]

+1 for telrad riser

[Del Boy]

Thanks everyone. Your words have already helped a lot except now im in 2 minds between a 200p and a 250px. Has anyone used both? Is there much of a difference because there is quite a bit of a price difference. Tho if i got the lower 200p id probably always be thinking 'I wonder what the 250 would see?'. Or am i just being ridiculous? 

[Charic]

......... and your mates seeing just as well with the 200P under same  or worse conditions? it works both ways. There's  about a 56% increase in surface area between the two scopes, what your needing to see now is if the image is that much bigger. On paper, a larger  aperture is always better. In reality, conditions  come into play. 

To be honest, I don't think I`ll be replacing my telescope any-time soon!  And if I did go larger, do I need to get better eyepieces to match the performance of the optics.

Your getting a better substrate "Pyrex" but its only a substrate. The Mirror coating is on the surface of the mirror. I`d bet I have the reflective composition as the 250PX.

You need to try one somewhere.

[jonathan]

Comparing my 150P (6" reflector) to my 8SE (8" SCT) there is a clear difference, the 8SE sees a lot more, but they are two entirely different scopes so the view would be different again through an 8" reflector. The 150P is a much faster scope than the 8SE so can benefit from better quality eyepieces, but it will never match the 8SE for raw magnification potential. Thing is, the bigger scope brings other challenges - it attracts dew a lot more, it requires a heavier mount and a large battery or mains power source, it takes up much more space when stored, and to get the best out of the scope at high magnification the seeing conditions need to be perfect, which they very rarely are.

I enjoy using my 150P because I can see most of the same things I would view through the 8SE, but with a lighter mount that I can run on four AA batteries all night, hardly ever get dewed out, indeed sometimes the lower magnification really works in my favour if the seeing conditions are not great, the view is just smaller on things such as planets and the moon, but the detail is still there.

My other iPad is an iMac.

[jonathan]

If you've got the money + £100 for some accessories then I'd say go for the 250PX, otherwise go for the 200PX.  Also bear in mind that the bigger scope will cut through light pollution better.  It is a case of diminishing returns - you can pay ever higher prices for smaller and smaller gains, it's entirely down to you and your wallet (or significant other) when to stop.

Accessories could include a dew shield, a good high magnification eyepiece, and maybe a Telrad riser (as you already have a Telrad.  A riser also makes it easier for you to move the Telrad between scopes).

[wookie1965]

I would say get used to your scope first using the supplied eyepieces and buy a good book Turn Left to Orion is very popular i have it it tells you exactly where to look in the night sky and what you should see, download Stellarium if you haven't already great free program, just have fun with your scope learn the night sky then get yourself some eyepieces you will enjoy them all the more when you can point them at objects.

A very warm welcome to SGL

[Charic]

If you've got the money + £100 for some accessories then I'd say go for the 250PX, otherwise go for the 200PX.  Also bear in mind that the bigger scope will cut through light pollution better.  It is a case of diminishing returns - you can pay ever higher prices for smaller and smaller gains, it's entirely down to you and your wallet (or significant other) when to stop.

Accessories could include a dew shield, a good high magnification eyepiece, and maybe a Telrad riser (as you already have a Telrad.  A riser also makes it easier for you to move the Telrad between scopes).

........I found that hard to believe, however searching the Internet, I may be changing my mind on that fact? fascinating hobby!

[Del Boy]

Thanks everybody. I've decided on the 250px for sure. All I need now is to pick out a couple of good lenses. Gar this is never ending!

[nicks90]

you will twist yourself into knots over eye piece choice!!!

i have the 300mm dob and chosing eyepieces on a 'budget' to get the most out of the scope (without spending hundreds) is an absolute minefield. I have pretty much made up my mind what I want know - after 6 months of procrastinating - so its now a case of staying glued to the classifieds and ebay for them to come up second hand to replace the bits and bobs that I picked up over the past couple of years with my old little scope.

in case you are interested, my 'end game' set of eps is a couple of BST ED starguiders for mid/higher powers (8mm and 12mm), an ultra widefield 15mm, a 26mm 2" panaview and a 38mm 2" panaview widefield/finder. Nearly there with my set now, just need to get the 12mm and the 26mm and I will be happy.........

until i win the lottery and can spunk £2500 on a set of naglers!

[Del Boy]

Do you know of any sets which cover a basic range that are pretty good?

[nicks90]

An 8, a 15 and a 25mm bst ed starguider would be a really good start!

[itmo]

Oh and the best way to find targets in the sky is to download stellarium, then configure it with your time and position. Then look where the target is and find it with a red dot finder or a telrad. Starting from the easy targets. Do this for a while and you will start finding targets faster than a goto. And you dont need aligning. The good thing with gotos is tracking. You dont need to keep nudging the scope to keep jupiter in sight. 

[Del Boy]

Update:

So just as I went to purchase my 250px and veered off and ordered the 300p flexi tube haha. I must be a woman coz them 2 extra inches just seemed too tempting! Thanks again tho everyone for your help. I'm sure I'll still have plenty of questions in the near future regarding my scope. But first, what to name her?....

[Del Boy]

Update:

So just as I went to purchase my 250px and veered off and ordered the 300p flexi tube haha. I must be a woman coz them 2 extra inches just seemed too tempting! Thanks again tho everyone for your help. I'm sure I'll still have plenty of questions in the near future regarding my scope. But first, what to name her?....

[nicks90]

Good lad!