Where am i going wrong ?

[RobertC]

let me run my usual eq5 setup through, i am really now fully out of ideas to where i am going wrong.

I start off by leveling out my 3 axis on my mount base, after that is all level i put the mount itself onto the base and nip the bolt up leaving enough so i can alter the azimuth bolts. (mount is on solid ground)

I input the data into the handset and get upto the HA bit, i polar align the mount ( i am picky so i do this bit very precisely). After that i nip all the bolts up and check the mount is still polar aligned by losing off the RA clutch and spinning that part of the mount around watching polaris to see if it deviates from the transit circle. 

I then place the two counterweights onto the mount followed by the scope and double check the mount is still polar aligned. I set my scope back to the home position and now set about my aligning. This is the bit i have had my issues with for the past week. The first star pretty much always Vega for me, the scope slews not too far from it. I move the scope using the motors so i can see Vega dead central in my eyepiece (10mm). I then go about checking what star is in a nice place and i slew to the chosen one going through the same procedure as the first but this time the scope slews way off the star and then the same with the third. After i finish aligning every time it warns me ( aligning may be poor). I know i have aligned to the correct stars and that i have polar aligned precisely so where is this poor alignment coming from ?

My location is correct, spent many hours asking on here what i should input into my handset so i know that is correct, time and data are entered correctly and i select no for the day time saving.

If anyone has the slightest clue to why i am having this problem please do tell me, i've been tearing my hair out over this trying and trying starting from the beginning but to no avail. Sorry it's a bit long but i think it's best i don't miss anything out.

-Rob

[Kal]

Was the Day-light savings time set correctly? That always throws me.

[RobertC]

It's set to no.

[Carl Reade]

As from last Sunday we are now in Day light saving.

[RobertC]

As from last Sunday we are now in Day light saving.

Right, i'll give it a go when i next setup. Setting it to yes.

[ronin]

No we are NOT in daylight saving time.

That ended last weekend.

So you are correct the reply is No to that.

[RobertC]

No we are NOT in daylight saving time.

That ended last weekend.

So you are correct the reply is No to that.

So we are no longer in day light saving? So i should be setting it to No then as i have been doing ?

[ronin]

Two thoughts come to mind:

Are you supposed to power off and on the mount at some time ?

Where you say "I set my scope back to the home position and now set about my aligning. This is the bit i have had my issues with for the past week."

I have the idea that when back at the home position you may be supposed to power cycle the mount - do not ask why as it never made sense to me but sure I read it sometime. It may be on older software however.

Next is try 2 star alignment not 3. Recall quite a few people find that 3 star alignment fails, whereas 2 star is successful. No answer why other then the software that uses to informnation from the 3rd star (cone angle I think) just isn't that good or too intolerant so it thinks alignment is poor/bad.

**Third one: Don't use the handset to centre the first star, release clutches and manually centre the star. Sure I have read this is useful approach as well.

[ronin]

DST=BST.

That ended last weekend.

So the answer for the handset is No.

We are back to GMT or sometimes called UT.

Confusing isn't it all? :grin:

Did know one person that offset their timezone to enable them to enter the BST/DST time but say No to DST.

Worked OK until we went back to GMT. What happened then was they found you could add the hiour or not have it, what you couldn't do was subtract it. And they had forgotten the trick they did. Scope wouldn't work until everything was wiped and all reentered.

[RobertC]

Two thoughts come to mind:

Are you supposed to power off and on the mount at some time ?

Where you say "I set my scope back to the home position and now set about my aligning. This is the bit i have had my issues with for the past week."

I have the idea that when back at the home position you may be supposed to power cycle the mount - do not ask why as it never made sense to me but sure I read it sometime. It may be on older software however.

Next is try 2 star alignment not 3. Recall quite a few people find that 3 star alignment fails, whereas 2 star is successful. No answer why other then the software that uses to informnation from the 3rd star (cone angle I think) just isn't that good or too intolerant so it thinks alignment is poor/bad.

**Third one: Don't use the handset to centre the first star, release clutches and manually centre the star. Sure I have read this is useful approach as well.

Yes i have read to not bother with 3 star alignment, i have been using 1 and 2 but tried 3 to see if it would solve my problems. I'm pretty new to using the motors so could you explain what the 'power cycle the mount' is a little more ?

DST=BST.

That ended last weekend.

So the answer for the handset is No.

We are back to GMT or sometimes called UT.

Confusing isn't it all? :grin:

Did know one person that offset their timezone to enable them to enter the BST/DST time but say No to DST.

Worked OK until we went back to GMT. What happened then was they found you could add the hiour or not have it, what you couldn't do was subtract it. And they had forgotten the trick they did. Scope wouldn't work until everything was wiped and all reentered.

I've got conflicting yes and no from a few people on here and from friends who are using the same scope setup as me. I'll use the No first and see if it will correct the problems.

[jambouk]

It's frustrating as I just want to come and have a look at you setting up and see if there is anything I would do differently. If there are any readers out there from manchester, please offer to help this lad

Right, it sounds like you are doing things largely as I would.

Can you take a picture of every screen of the handset just before you press enter (and indicate where you are and what the time/date was). That might help us; a ball ache I know.

I do polar alignment with all my kit on the mount as it's so heavy it must move it, but poor polar alignment isn't the issue here.

The turning the mount off and back on again after doing polar alignment is something which is unique to the AZEQ6 I believe as the encoders in the mount get confused. But there is no harm in setting up fully to polar alignment, then returning to the home position and then powering back up (you'll need to re enter the time, but the date and coordinates will be retained and be correct unless you've crossed midnight and in a new day).

"Home position". I think it's important to have the scope pointing north and having the counter weight bar at its lowest position. You can do this by eye and feel, you don't need to look through the scope and centre polaris.

Have you checked to see if you have much cone error? 3 star alignment is meant to correct for cone error, but if there is lots, then it may suggest your alignment is poor.

Have you tried, and this will sound daft and is probably a load of rubbish, mounting your scope on the mount the other way round. So if you usually mount the scope with the mirror at the west side of the scope, try with the mirror end at the east side or vice versa.

Are you sure the scope dovetail is sitting level in the mount, or whether a screw/bolt is making one end of the dovetail sit slightly proud of the saddle - this would give you cone error.

I have had the handset tell me at times that my alignment may be dodgy, but in fact it's been OK. Have you subsequently testing the GOTO accuracy and checked if it is OK or not?

Are all the clutches nice and tight before you start you star alignment?

James

[jambouk]

We are NOT in day light saving now. Daylight saving = British Summer Time. We are now GMT. So the time the handset subsequently tells you should be exactly the same time as the time on your watch.

James

[RobertC]

Regarding the cone error i checked it the other day and had the same result. Took the rings off the scope with the dovetail attached, put it onto my mount and put the scope back into the rings to make sure it was completely flat touching the mount. The clutches are tight and i make sure the base will not move.

I have marked the place where my home position is on my mount courtesy of the astronomy shed's help so i can easily return to it. It looks like this when in its home position with the weights facing north. (not my scope, using it for illustration purposes)

 

We are NOT in day light saving now. Daylight saving = British Summer Time. We are now GMT. So the time the handset subsequently tells you should be exactly the same time as the time on your watch.

James

These are the images of each screen on my handset as i work through it, the time i entered is rough to the min not to the seconds i usually do.

 This my cords- (53° 30' 32.78'' N)  (2° 26' 45.77'' W)(53° 30' 32.78'' N)  (2° 26' 45.77'' W)

-Rob

[jambouk]

That all looks correct, including home position.

Have you checked for cone error by the astronomy shed method? Was there much?

James

[RobertC]

I've just watched his video now on it, it really does look like that is the case well i hope it is otherwise well who knows what the problem is.

[jambouk]

Well have a go and see if you have much cone error. If polaris is in the field of view of the scope when you flick from one side to the other (ising a ow mag eye piece) you cone error is minimal. If polaris is not in the field of view of the scope but is in the field of view of the finder scope, you've got a moderate amount. If polaris isn't even in the field of view of the finder scope, you've got masses. Even if you can't see polaris, you can use another star if you are quickish about slewing from one side to the other. Or use a very distant object in the day light. Take your pick.

James

[brantuk]

I don't switch on and enter the data until after I've PA'd the mount, loaded the scope and weights, and double checked the PA (making any adjustments needed after loading the gear). I also ensure the puck and weight bar are aligned and that both are perpendicular to the ground using the setting circles and a spirit level before loading up. This yields a good "home" position and it is from here I switch on, enter the data, and do my star aligning.

The only exception is that if I need the polar scope illuminated - I switch on to set or check the PA - but switch off again till I have a good home position. I don't know if that helps but it gives the mount the best start point and it seems to work for me.

[RobertC]

Was just wondering, has anyone used the polar align feature using the handset ? Came across it last night and had a little play around.

[jambouk]

Your issue is with goto at the moment, not your polar alignment. The polar align feature (i call it "handset polar refinement") relies on very accurate goto which currently you don't have, so ignore that for now. [my personal experience with handset polar refinement is that it's rubbish for me set up; there are better ways to refine and tighten up your polar alignment]

Get to the bottom of you goto first.

James

[jambouk]

You never commented on how much backlash / play there is with your mount in either axis. If there is a lot (as much as a field of view or two) then that could well contribute towards poor goto'ing too.

With the clutches both locked, how much (if at all) can you rotate the RA and Dec axes?

There are descriptions on the internet about tightening this up, but it's semi-delicate work; astro baby has an excellent description somewhere for the heq5.

James

[jambouk]

Ah, just looked and you have an eq5 not an heq5. Someone with much better understanding than me needs to comment then on any potential backlash you have and how to resolve it.

James

[Imd]

I once had a problem with my power cable which affected alignment. There was no power light on my eq5 but when I got an eq6 I could see a power light flickering due to a bad connection.

After your 3 star alignment you should be able to send the scope back to the home position within the utilities section ( I think ). If this sends the scope back to home and it looks like its pointing back at Polaris I expect you can rule out power issues. If not I suggest borrowing someone's cable and tank and trying again.

Good luck

Ian

[RobertC]

I've been and had that problem Fixed it by stealing my power cable to my internet, works great now haha

[RobertC]

Well i checked for cone error and was quite surprised at how badly it was affected by it. Fixed it and have a nice clear view of my object (tv Ariel) when i spin the scope 180 each dirrection. Got clear skies tonight so i will have to give it a go to see if my work wasn't in vain.

This is how much i had to move it to correct the error.

[jambouk]

Just recheck on polaris you've not created cone error in the other direction because of parallax (the tv aerial being very much closer to the mount than polaris is).

I do hope goto plays the game tonight!

I've just polar alignment my mount but then covered it up and left it outside as the cloud has rolled in, but i have hopefully reduced set up time for tomorrow night when i get home from work.

James