traveler 76 mm telescope

[docwho]

hi all , it feels very daunting coming on here :shock:but firstly hello to everyone as this is my first post.

ive recieved one of the aforementioned from the mother in law for xmas and know nothing about telescopes but im begining to think that it may interest me a little and also my 2 kids. will it be alright as a starter kit.. please be gentle folks im a complete novice

ps i didnt ask for this present lol but i am gratefull

[barkis]

Hello Doc, and may I welcome you to SGL on this Xmas Day, well, what's left of it.

I can't speak with any authority on the model of telescope your Mother in Law has bought you.

If my memory serves, I recollect seeing a 3" reflecting telescope with that name, but I am groping. About the only object that you could reasonably view with it, is the moon, but since useful magnification can be related to aperture, those views would be less than spectacular I am afraid.

If you want me to be brutally honest, then I must say, although it saddens me, that your dear Mother in Law who's intentions were probably were very generous, has not done you any favours. I do apologize if I hurt anyones feelings, but a scope with a mirror of that size is not suitable, even as a starter scope. It may look very attractive in It's box, but I am afraid that is about as useful as it gets.

If your dear relative is not easily upset, I would suggest you plead with her to return it and get her money back.

Then ask her to buy a pair of 10x50 binoculars for you and your children. You will get more use out of them on the sky.

Then, if your interest in astronomy is strong enough, you can buy a telescope when you feel you are ready for one. Then, contact SGL again, and ask for some advice on what to buy, and what your budget will be..

I am so sorry If I have deflated you somewhat, but you are perfectly at liberty to wait and hear other comments before you do anything.

Best Wishes.

Ron.

[docwho]

thankyou for your replies ron and no offence taken i may ask the mil to take it back ..in a very gentle way :insects1:

thankyou once again.

[AlexG]

Hi Doc

Welcome to SGL!

You are not alone, I notice, Ezydriver used the same brand of telescope (! think it's an Aldi special) to produce some creditable images of the moon.

http://stargazerslounge.com/index.php?topic=20692.msg212923

Maybe he will be along in a while to tell you what you may be able to see.

AG

[DanDare]

Welcome to SGL!

Don't be daunted about asking questions, everyone here is very friendly here and you'll get some very sound advice (as demonstrated by Barkis).

If you do get binoculars then a tripod for them in due course will make viewing more comfortable.

Roy

[Stephen Green]

Hi Doc welcome to the SGL I go along with the others, agood pair of 10x50 binoculars are great it is amazeing what you can see, I have 3 scopes but still use binoculars for chaseing comets and other objects

regads Stephen

Eastbourne AS East Sussex

[docwho]

hi chaps and thankyou for all your welcomes

after enquiring today ive found out it is indeed an aldi special!! our lass has had a word with the MIL and she says the store will let me take it back unused so thats what im gonna do.ive got a pair of binos use for airshows.

im glad i came on here for some advice,it has been much appreciated.i can see why you get addicted to this hobby.maybe some time in the future i will buy a telescope and after reading some other posts there is quite an array..right from starter ones...up to some that would match hubble(hope ive got that right!!) lol.also i think the kids will love it too..i would love to see some of our planets and the moon close up and take some pictures.

what would be an ideal telescope for beginners??i might pop into rothervalley optics (sheffield)thats not too far from me and have a look first hand.

anyway once again thankyou,i know where to come now for advice,

all the best for the new year

[The Warthog]

I disagree a little with Barkis about the capabilities of a 76mm scope. You can get some nice views of open clusters and brighter DSOs like the Orion Nebula, and the rings of Saturn and Moons of Jupiter, but it is really just above the level of toy telescope.

I usually suggest that beginners who are serious about the hobby start with at least a 90mm refractor or a 150mm (6") reflector. Skywatcher makes a very nice 6" dobsonian telescope that has a good long focal length that makes it reasonable on planets, and good optics that mean you can see things clearly. Also, it comes with a pair of decent eyepieces, if I recall correctly. It is easy to point at stuff, and easy to transport and store.

I have a 6" reflector on an equatorial mount. It is more expensive, but easier to use for tracking objects across the sky, although the learning curve for the mount is a little steep. I also have a 105mm refractor, which is great for planets and the Moon, and OK for DSOs. It is more expensive than my 6" reflector. The reflector is great for DSOs, and OK for planets and the Moon. Well, actually, it's very good on the Moon.

Some of the 5" reflectors (127 or 130mm) are quite good, especially if the advertising says "parabolic mirror" in there somewhere. Most 4.5" and smaller reflectors are spherical, which gives less exciting results.

I really would suggest the dobsonian for ease of use and good optics. If you really get hooked by the hobby, you will spend more later on other scopes. OTOH, a friend of mine has been using a Skywatcher 6" Dob, has written articles on amateur astronomy, and has never bought a larger telescope even though he is highly respected in the local astronomy community. He has bought a couple of eyepieces that each cost more than his scope, though.

Have a good time with the sky. It is always worth it, except on nights like tonight, when we're clouded from horizon to horizon.

[clarkian]

Doc

I don't wish to be rude, or to pry, but can you tell me how much mill might have paid for your telescope

Ian

[robert_l]

there is nothing wrong with starting out with a small telescope , you will see more in a 76mm reflector or 60mm refractor than you would with binoculars.

the 76mm reflector will be able to show you the following

The Moon in close up far superior to what binoculars would show

Mercury and Venus - phase

Mars it will show disc markings and ice caps at good oppositions (1988 and 2003 was excellent with small telescopes)

Jupiter equatorial belts possible the red spot and the Galilean moons , you will also be able to observe shadow transits of the moons

Saturn the 76mm telescope will resolve the rings and over the decades you can see the change of angle of the rings best seen in small telescopes when they are wide open as on 2000 , you can also observe Titan it has a 15 day orbit so over several nights you can watch it change position.

Uranus you can also see this but it is a difficult target but visible as tiny disc!

with the low power eyepiece you can view the orion nebula m47 and the plieadies M45 star cluster . also M31 the Galaxy in Andromeda

The 76mm telescope will show you the colour of the stars and split double stars , you can also use the telescope to observe variable stars.

you can use the telescope to observe and time ocultations

you can project the sun to observe sun spots.

there are windows of opportunity's for small telescopes eg when a planet is at opposition , small telescopes are portable and easy to take to dark sky sights where you will see more than a bigger telescope in a light palouted area.

you can upgrade the telescope by buying new eyepieces ,because most scopes including large ones come with poor quality eyepieces , it is worth spending as much again as the cost of the telescope on decent eyepieces ,which you can use once you upgrade to a bigger telescope.

You can not do detailed planetary observations with a small telescope , but what it will do is give you a lot of fun , after a year most people who are new to astronomy find a particular area of astronomy that interests them , eg planets or deepsky etc , that then dictates what type of telescope you want to invest in .

I work in a public observatory and have met lots of people who have spent 100s of pounds on large telescopes they later sell because they don't know how to use them , if they had started with a small scope before wasting money on a large telescope they would have learned how to use it.

aperture snobbery is typical of the UK

Robert :saturn:

[barkis]

Aperture snobbery is a bit strong Robert. Most astronomers seek more light gathering capability, as a natural progression in their desire to see more. There has never been a hint of "mines bigger than yours" syndrome on this forum as far as I know.

Your opinion and description of small aperture instruments is quite valid, and I respect what you say.

My main concern when I see a budding entry into the field of astronomy given a small telescope that he has no understanding of, I know he is going to be disappointed, and very likely to lose interest in a wonderful experience. He would be better off with a pair of binoculars, which is a stock phrase in these situations. If he was an experienced instrument user, then no doubt he would glean from the telescope exactly what you described, but he isn't, that is why he asked for advice.

Of course he is quite free to persevere with what he has, and we will continue to try and give him support. But somehow, I don't think he or his children will be overjoyed with the experiences they will have.

They may well persist, and come back on the forum and tell me I am an old fool. If they do, I will accept it, and wish them very success.

Ron.

[robert_l]

This is a problem with telescopes the manufacturer assumes you know how to use them !, normally you only get instructions to assemble telescopes.

I get people to bring there new telescopes to the observatory and demonstrate how to use them , the main mistakes with small telescopes

some manufactures advertise ridicules powers eg 625x60mm :x. when the optimum in a 60mm is 125x ( you can push 200 in could conditions with decent eyepiece)

with the 76mm alt az reflectors , I had one person could not see anything , it turned out he had not removed the lens cap !

another one was could not see anything , he had the telescope mounted upside down ! with mirror back facing the sky !!!!!!!!!!!!

a common mistake is because people want to get the most magnification ,they bung on 4mm + 3x barlow and the telescope ends up in the cupboard because it is useless!

a brilliant example is on you tube , some one has done an excellent video of saturn with a 60mm tasco telescope ! , reading the comments one person would not believe it because he had a good 60mm and used 4mm + 3x barlow and could not resolve saturn.

You can see a lot in small telescopes if used properly unfortunately all the magazines feature high end telescopes which not every one can afford

perhaps if more articles in using small telescopes would help

Robert :saturn:

[jgs001]

Just a thought, would it be a good idea, for someone with a lot of experience and who is able to get the best from a small telescope to post a tutorial of some sort, maybe with some guidance on a few choice objects to look at and the sorts of things that us beginners could expect to see through such a scope ?

[centroid]

aperture snobbery is typical of the UK

Robert :saturn:

:nono:

Having been a member of several UK based astro forums, and also a large astronomy club, I've never seen any instances of the so called 'aperture snobbery' of which you speak. I would suggest that the people who lead you to think this way, are a very small minority indeed.

Ron (barkis) speaks with wisdom, and has only the best interest of 'budding astronomers' at heart. I fully support what he says.

Small budget refractors, such as from high street shops and mail order catalogues, have been directly responsible for causing a great many newcomers to give up amateur astronomy, due to their disappointment.

I and many others, will always advocate starting out with a pair of binoculars (say 10x50's), as opposed to a small budget refractor, save their money, and talk to others with more experience, before dashing out to buy a telescope.

Dave

[Neon]

I and many others, will always advocate starting out with a pair of binoculars (say 10x50's), as opposed to a small budget refractor, save their money, and talk to others with more experience, before dashing out to buy a telescope.

I agree completely Centroid, although I think people rarely approach things in such a logical way. Luckily I was persuaded to buy binoculars first, and I'm so glad I did. By the time I got my 'scope I knew roughly where everything was in the sky and found the move from two eyes to one to be relatively painless.

However, I'm sure we all know people who don't do things by half. If they decide to try fishing they'll buy all the gear and then decide they don't like it when they don't catch any fish, or decide to become a musician and spend £800 on an instrument that ends up gathering dust. I'm sure that astronomy must suffer from the same shortfalls, but I think that it must be to do partly with lack of understanding about the performance of equipment.

At least with binoculars you kind of expect not to see everything with them. You might be able to locate Jupiter and it's moons, but no-one would expect to see the red spot with they're 8x50's. Hopefully by the time you purchase your first telescope you should understand that 600x magnification is practically impossible, just as someone buying a £600 fishing rod will understand that it won't automatically catch more fish.

Beginners to astronomy are (IMHO, 'cos I'm one of them) too hooked up on magnification, but only because we don't know any better. Comparing my relatively low powered Antares 80mm with a friends 60mm 'First Scope' demonstrated that my short tube couldn't match his for power with the eyepieces available, but the clarity was another matter entirely. Plus, he found the 'scope hard to use due to the narrow FOV and unstable tripod, making his new hobby more of a chore than a pleasurable experience, which I suppose so many people are put off by it.

[radioactive]

Well Peeps I have read all through these posts on this thread twice fully now I have let out afew Gasps and Whats?! and certain other expletives maybe some of which are best not mentioned about

In the cool light of Day I would say this

Astronomy will not suit some people, much as any other hobbies may not suit everyone either! We are all guilty of the impulse buy in our chosen hobbies also. The most important thing we have is choice! One of the things this great nation of ours is still world reknowned for and the freedom of being able to use that freedom. So this said Its fair to assume we can all have opinions and the rights to express them. Sometimes of course for various reasons these comments may bring out a more intense discussion which in a healthy environment such as this SGL forum is just that, And I applaud all of us who has had a say in this topic. To me its been an interesting journey throughout and I hope that the topic Author really has gleaned as much joy (if that's the right word) from it

Thanks everyone :sunny:

[MartinB]

In early December 05 I went into a camera shop to get may daughter a camera for Christmas. There were a few scopes in there (mainly smaller Skywatcher reflectors). This reawakened a childhood interest. I found the Prinz 60mm refractor I'd been given as a boy, dusted it down and tightened up the wobbly alt az mount. I found SGL and bought a book and a star chart. First thing I went for was Mars which was at opposition. A tiny peachy disc with a splodge of violet CA, that was it, I was hooked. As a boy I could never find M31 expecting it to look like a the spiral galaxy I saw on the photo of the telescope box. Being older and wiser I eventually found it and was thrilled. Then went on to find Saturn for the first time. Seeing the rings was one of the great moments, even though it was scooting across the FOV and tracking it with the dodgy mount was an art.

I then borrowed a friends Lidl 70mm. He'd given up with it - the internal reflections from the draw tube were awful but the mount was a half way decent eq. I even got an image of Saturn with it complete with rings.

In Jan 06 a former SGL member gave away some scopes including a pristine Tal1. This was a whole step forward. I challenge anyone to look through the 110mm Tal reflector and not be impressed - wonderful views of M81/82, globular clusters and cassini clearly visible dividing Saturn's rings. Using the manual slo mo controls I managed an image of Saturn which showed banding in the disc and cassini.

SGL was a massive help to me when I was starting out. I enjoyed using a pair of 9x25 binos but the mark one eyeball used when sitting back in a deck chair was also very enjoyable. However it was those views through the Prinz 60mm after dusting it down that really got me hooked.

Toy scopes don't put people off, it's ignorance of how tricky observing can be and isolation form people who can help.

[Sam]

Martin,

You are right. My first scope, about a year ago was a cheapy $60.00 (NZ which is about 20 GBP) from a chain of stores called [removed word] Smith. The mount was terrible and the internal reflections were terrible but when I saw craters on the moon, I was hooked - and then when I saw M42 it was even better. I resolved from that moment to get a better scope. Having the el cheapo got me hooked - without that kick start I'd have the yard light on and be wondering where to install the garden laser light show and security lights.

Sam

[robert_l]

observing with small telescopes

first before using your telescope it is best to read up on astronomy and then go outside and find the constelations , ursa major (plough) and orion you can use these to find outher constalations.

it is more fun if you know what you are looking at !

There are lots of astronomy magazines avalibile , I find that the Irish Astronomy and Space is very good for articles on how to locate things in the night sky than outher magazines , the sky at night and astronomy now are good for more advanced observers the Best is Sky and Telescope.

Observing site

try to choose a dark site ,if using your telescope in the garden place the tripod on the grass rather than concrete patio ( concrete obsorbs heat from sun and at night radiates heat causing shimmer in the telescope)

Finder scope

The finder scope on your telescope either a small telescope or more coman now red dot finder

This has to be colomated with the main telescope , do this during the day point the telescope using the low power eyepeice on a distint building/landmark lock teelescope , look through the finder you should see the building in the centre of the crosshair if not adjust the screws as you turn each screw you will see the object move ,once in the centre .check the main telescope to see if it is still there. if so your finderscope is aligned so that if you have mars in the finder scope it will be in FOV of the main telescope.

Red Dot Finder

This has two wheels which are used to colimate the red dot , point the telescope at a bright star or planet lock the telescope , look through the site ,switch on red dot by adjusting the wheels so red dot is in front of object ( if to bright you might have to turn down the light so it duse not dazel out the object ) check main telescope if you see object then you have set red dot finder scope. remember to turn of light once you have located object to save battery.

now you are set for observing

The first rull is to use your low power eyepeice ( this is the one with the high number eg 20mm) it has a big feild of view ( most newcoumers make the mistake of putting on the high power right away !) it is best to start off with the moon as it is big ! the best time to observe the moon is not when it is full ! when the moon shows a phase the most detail is near the terminator where dark /lght aera.

Idealy you should have 3 eyepeices the most important is your low power you use this first to find objects

eg.20mm - good for stars , star clusters , andromeda galaxy etc

eg 10mm use for moon and planets also dubble stars

eg.4mm high power moon and planets on nights of good seeing

Barlow lens in small telescopes this is only usefull for the moon

Robert :saturn:

[Grundya]

Dear SGL,

I notice this is an old thread, but it appeared in a google search when I was looking to purchase a 76mm reflector from my local charity shop. Having done a fair amount of research, the overwhelming view I came away with was negative, although many users noted that the capabilities of the scope were not too bad if used properly. I decided to take a punt on it and at £25 the price wasn't astronomical!

Living on the coast, I was able to view terrestrial objects about six miles away and get a good feel for the scope, particularly framing objects in the finderscope and getting a better understanding of the telescope's motions. At first it was a bit confusing, but I managed to get the hang of it. Now I've had it two weeks and have been waiting for a night off and a clear sky to take it out for a test drive. Last night was that night!

Taking the scope about 8 miles out of town to a rural carpark, we first aimed at the Moon. It was problematic at first to get it spot on in the scope, but in the end managed to get some beautiful views of it, closer than I've ever seen before. Then we attempted some planetary viewing. Venus, because it was so bright was the most obvious target. Good views, but would have liked more time to play around with the range of eyepieces. Using the 1.5x erecting scope, and the 9mm eyepiece allowed good resolution, and it was probably the most visible object other than the moon.

I knew Saturn would be visible in the West and had been following its progress all evening. Knowing exactly where to place the planet in the finderscope (the edge of the top left quadrant seemed to place it perfectly for viewing), I was able to see the rings of Saturn clearly and was amazed. I really wish our time had not run out otherwise I would have been there all night observing. But it was a fantastic evening and was actually amazed at what I could see.

I was pondering whether to wait and save my money, but i thought this was a deal to good to miss. I'm glad I bought the scope now and am going to make a conscious effort to learn more, search for new objects in the sky and wait to make the progression to a better telescope in the future, particularly in order to progress onto astrophotography.

I would like to thank SGL for helping me to make up my mind and I will be coming back to this site now that I am registered in order to keep up to date with all that is going on.

Peace